'97 ZF5 - Deal? - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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'97 ZF5 - Deal?

Found this on FB Marketplace. He says it worked fine when pulled, but the odometer didn't work on the truck so miles are unknown. What do I look for when I go look at it?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...ssenger_banner
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 07:25 PM
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Look for in/out play on the output shaft.

Does the shifter jiggle excessively, even in neutral? (Easy fix really)

CRACKS! Especially in the tail section.

Should be the improved ZF5-47.

It should have ATF in it. If it has gear oil, there could potentially be internal issues with the synchros and main shaft end bearings. Not always though. Mine had gear oil and was okay. I took the guts out and disassembled it down, leaving the gears pressed on the shafts. Then I bathed it in ATF for a few days, spinning the bearings and synchros around.

$350 is a heck of a deal

It might have had the BW4407 Transfer case behind it. If that's for sale, it is a definite upgrade to the BW1356: wider chain, better oiling system, and 50% more planetary gears. It's a beast at 107lbs. empty.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Great, thanks for the tips! The TC is in the deal too. I had really stopped looking for one, then this popped up. I'll check it over good.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigBlue 94 View Post
Look for in/out play on the output shaft
Does that mean I should pull the TC off?
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 08:13 PM
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350 for both, I wouldn't worry too much. If you feel inclined to remove that TC, then by all means. But as long as there isn't a crack in the ZF case, it should be rebuildable if need be.

That is indeed a BW4407 attached to it. Here's the one out of my 96 f350. It's one of those 4x4 parts that very few know about, mainly due to a short 2 year production. They were only in the HD F250 and F350 in 96 and 97. They are a bit heavier than the 1356, and in my opinion, need a rear brace to support their weight. I believe that's why my C6 case broke, right at the upper 2 bolts holding the TC to the C6. When I get the ZF swapped in, I plan on building another crossmember for the BW4407

Notice it already has a flanged output



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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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350 for both, I wouldn't worry too much. If you feel inclined to remove that TC, then by all means. But as long as there isn't a crack in the ZF case, it should be rebuildable if need be.

That is indeed a BW4407 attached to it. Here's the one out of my 96 f350. It's one of those 4x4 parts that very few know about, mainly due to a short 2 year production. They were only in the HD F250 and F350 in 96 and 97. They are a bit heavier than the 1356, and in my opinion, need a rear brace to support their weight. I believe that's why my C6 case broke, right at the upper 2 bolts holding the TC to the C6. When I get the ZF swapped in, I plan on building another crossmember for the BW4407

Notice it already has a flanged output
Ok, great, I'll probably just check real close for cracks then. That's good news on the BW4407 too. I remember reading a post or 2 from you about them. I'll be watching for the crossmember you build. I don't plan on this swap any time soon as I'll have to gather more parts.

Forgive my 4X4 ignorance, but what is the significance of the flanged output?
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRWillis View Post
Ok, great, I'll probably just check real close for cracks then. That's good news on the BW4407 too. I remember reading a post or 2 from you about them. I'll be watching for the crossmember you build. I don't plan on this swap any time soon as I'll have to gather more parts.

Forgive my 4X4 ignorance, but what is the significance of the flanged output?
Hah after I typed that I second guessed myself. Most all Ford pickup transfer cases came with a slip yoke attachment for the driveshaft. The bronco uses a flange, to shorten the TC up a bit and lengthen the space between u-joints on the driveshaft. Then I couldn't remember if the NP208 on the 80s trucks was flagged or fixed yoked. Are you running a mechanical clutch still? Theres an 84 in one of the yards in KC I'll be visiting tomorrow. It's got a hydro clutch.

@AbandonedBronco could tell us what all you'd need for the clutch swap

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigBlue 94 View Post
Hah after I typed that I second guessed myself. Most all Ford pickup transfer cases came with a slip yoke attachment for the driveshaft. The bronco uses a flange, to shorten the TC up a bit and lengthen the space between u-joints on the driveshaft. Then I couldn't remember if the NP208 on the 80s trucks was flagged or fixed yoked. Are you running a mechanical clutch still? Theres an 84 in one of the yards in KC I'll be visiting tomorrow. It's got a hydro clutch.

@AbandonedBronco could tell us what all you'd need for the clutch swap
Hmm, I'll have to take a closer look at mine to see if it's flanged or not. I haven't looked at the rear driveshaft except to check and grease the u-joints. I am still running a mechanical clutch and I know from AB's thread and others that I'll have to convert over to hydro, so I need to find out if my current clutch peddle will work for that. I do know the slave and clutch cylinders need to be from the same years so the line will match up.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SRWillis View Post
Hmm, I'll have to take a closer look at mine to see if it's flanged or not. I haven't looked at the rear driveshaft except to check and grease the u-joints. I am still running a mechanical clutch and I know from AB's thread and others that I'll have to convert over to hydro, so I need to find out if my current clutch peddle will work for that. I do know the slave and clutch cylinders need to be from the same years so the line will match up.
I was thinking the pedals had to be swapped, but I'm not sure. You will want the master and internal slave from a 97 with a SBF 5spd. The BBF version was an external slave.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 10:23 AM
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That's a great deal!! Even if you have to have it rebuilt.

The flanged output on the transfer case may make it difficult to use the TC in your Bronco, since your rear differential isn't flanged. You'd have to have some custom made driveshaft with a flange on one end and a u-joint yoke setup on the other. Fortunately, your current transfer case should bolt right to it if you can't figure that part out.

That'll be the beefed up SF-47, too. You should be able to tell by the part number on the tag, but there's almost no way it'd still be the SF-42 at that date. Basically, capable of 470 ft/lbs vs 420 ft/lbs of torque. I have the SF-42 and am not worried about it, but it's a concern if you're putting in some big diesel or something.

If you can, definitely track down the dropdown brackets from a 5 speed truck for the crossmember. It'll make your life a lot easier. And, find a front driveshaft from an 87/88 4x4 truck. Those years used the U-joint yoke like yours, as opposed to the flange. You can have your front lengthened, but lengthening is more expensive, so it's nice to just find one. All the truck/Broncos had the same length front shaft.


For the clutch, you can use your pedals, but you need the pedal shaft that the pedals swivel on. The end of the shaft is different between mechanical and hydraulic. Mechanical has a keyed end for the arm that activates the clutch linkage, whereas the hydraulic is splined so that the arm can go on any direction. This is a junk yard item only, as far as I know. You'll need an 84 - 86 truck.

Then, linking up and drilling the hole for the master cylinder on the firewall (along with the firewall brace).



But, you'll love the hydraulic clutch with the 5 speed.


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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 10:59 AM
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The double cardon joint on my f350 just has a small yoke attached that bolts to that flange.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks a bunch for the info you guys, it's a big help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBlue 94 View Post
The BBF version was an external slave.
Ah, didn't know that tidbit of info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbandonedBronco View Post
If you can, definitely track down the dropdown brackets from a 5 speed truck for the crossmember. It'll make your life a lot easier. And, find a front driveshaft from an 87/88 4x4 truck. Those years used the U-joint yoke like yours, as opposed to the flange. You can have your front lengthened, but lengthening is more expensive, so it's nice to just find one. All the truck/Broncos had the same length front shaft.


For the clutch, you can use your pedals, but you need the pedal shaft that the pedals swivel on. The end of the shaft is different between mechanical and hydraulic. Mechanical has a keyed end for the arm that activates the clutch linkage, whereas the hydraulic is splined so that the arm can go on any direction. This is a junk yard item only, as far as I know. You'll need an 84 - 86 truck.

But, you'll love the hydraulic clutch with the 5 speed.
I hope so!

Thanks for mentioning the dropdown brackets, I'll see if he has them.

I'll have to keep my eyes open for some 87-88 and 84-86s
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 09:51 AM
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I'll have to keep my eyes open for some 87-88 and 84-86s
The 87-88 is just to save some coin.

The 84-86 is a must.

It'll have a splined end line this:



If you take the arm of (like in the picture) and then take the nut off of the other end, you can slide the rod out without removing the pedals.
If you want to salvage the arm and leave it attached, you have to unbolt the pedal bracket.


The arm used to be a nightmare to find (and once you take it off, it's TOAST), but now LMC makes an aftermarket.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Picked it up today. Nice younger guy. He had this tranny and a couple motors on a trailer. He was going to put a 79 F150 body on the 97 chassis, but said he really wanted to Powerstroke it and decided to go that direction.

I didn't see any cracks in the case, the shifter seamed tight and everything turned okay. He said it shifted good.

The crossmember was also on the trailer and it had the down brackets still bolted to it Also on the trailer was the driveshafts and the tranny access panel. The shifters was in a tote with wiring harnesses and stuff, but also the clutch master cylinder and the clutch/brake pedal set. He said take anything I could use with the tranny for the same price. He had already said he would take $300 for the ZF5 w/T case and include the crossmember and the shifters. I did give him some extra for the extras and we were both very happy Man, that T case is massive

So I loaded up the back of the Bronco and brought it home. Actually, he loaded it with a tractor and man, I'm glad he did:



I'm going to have to rig up something to get that thing out of the bed

The double cardon joint is just as you described that's on your f350 @BigBlue 94 . I haven't looked to see if the other end matches up, but probably won't.

I picked up the pedal set @AbandonedBronco , thinking the shaft might interchange with mine. Do you know offhand if it will?
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 11:41 AM
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Good to know that the ZF5/M5OD crossmember does fit with the BW4407. Mine was behind a C6, and had a really goofy crossmember that on the driver side, went under the frame rail and bent up and bolted to the outside of the frame rail. It also had a little drop portion for the front driveshaft. I sold my zf5 crossmember and modified the c6 crossmember.
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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The double cardon joint is just as you described that's on your f350 @BigBlue 94 .
Actually I don't think the one I got is a double cardon joint as it only has one u-joint

I did check and it does have ATF in it, so I take that as a good sign

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Good to know that the ZF5/M5OD crossmember does fit with the BW4407.
I hadn't thought about that aspect. Just taking quick measurements, it looks like the overall length of the ZF5/BW4407 is 5-6" longer than what I have now, so I'll probably stick with the NP208
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 08:49 AM
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Yeah, there is a difference in length for sure.

Maybe my shaft doesnt have a DC either. Idk I havent looked at it for a while.

You could sell the BW4407 and make a couple hundred bucks back.

Just list it as a diesel strength TC and itll sell like hotcakes lol. Heavy duty manual shift transfer case? Yes please! Haha
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigBlue 94 View Post
You could sell the BW4407 and make a couple hundred bucks back.

Just list it as a diesel strength TC and itll sell like hotcakes lol. Heavy duty manual shift transfer case? Yes please! Haha
I may do that, and yep, it's all in the marketing
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRWillis View Post
Picked it up today. Nice younger guy. He had this tranny and a couple motors on a trailer. He was going to put a 79 F150 body on the 97 chassis, but said he really wanted to Powerstroke it and decided to go that direction.

I didn't see any cracks in the case, the shifter seamed tight and everything turned okay. He said it shifted good.

The crossmember was also on the trailer and it had the down brackets still bolted to it Also on the trailer was the driveshafts and the tranny access panel. The shifters was in a tote with wiring harnesses and stuff, but also the clutch master cylinder and the clutch/brake pedal set. He said take anything I could use with the tranny for the same price. He had already said he would take $300 for the ZF5 w/T case and include the crossmember and the shifters. I did give him some extra for the extras and we were both very happy Man, that T case is massive

So I loaded up the back of the Bronco and brought it home. Actually, he loaded it with a tractor and man, I'm glad he did:



I'm going to have to rig up something to get that thing out of the bed

The double cardon joint is just as you described that's on your f350 @BigBlue 94 . I haven't looked to see if the other end matches up, but probably won't.

I picked up the pedal set @AbandonedBronco , thinking the shaft might interchange with mine. Do you know offhand if it will?
That is one really sweet deal!! If the ZF is in great shape, and doesn't need any work, you found a gem of a deal. Glad he had the crossmember and dropdown brackets. That'll make life a lot easier.

As far as I know, the pedal bracket won't work since it's for a completely different dash and body style, but... maybe the pedal rod will? You'd have to pull it out and take a look at it.

It should be completely identical to the one you have, but instead of a box end on both ends, it'll have a box end on one, and a splined shaft on the other.

The driveshaft from any f-series won't work in a Bronco. You have to have the double cardan or it'll get chewed up. That was added due to the Bronco's extremely short driveshaft length.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRWillis View Post
Actually I don't think the one I got is a double cardon joint as it only has one u-joint

I did check and it does have ATF in it, so I take that as a good sign



I hadn't thought about that aspect. Just taking quick measurements, it looks like the overall length of the ZF5/BW4407 is 5-6" longer than what I have now, so I'll probably stick with the NP208
Quote:
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I may do that, and yep, it's all in the marketing
The longer length is also due to the 5 speed vs. 4 speed. But, yeah, that 4407 is a beast. Does it have some sort of bracing, like the old NP203/205s did? Or does it just bolt to the end of the ZF and dangle? Seems like that'd put a lot of torque on the tailshaft.


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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbandonedBronco View Post
That is one really sweet deal!! If the ZF is in great shape, and doesn't need any work, you found a gem of a deal. Glad he had the crossmember and dropdown brackets. That'll make life a lot easier.

As far as I know, the pedal bracket won't work since it's for a completely different dash and body style, but... maybe the pedal rod will? You'd have to pull it out and take a look at it.

It should be completely identical to the one you have, but instead of a box end on both ends, it'll have a box end on one, and a splined shaft on the other.

The longer length is also due to the 5 speed vs. 4 speed. But, yeah, that 4407 is a beast. Does it have some sort of bracing, like the old NP203/205s did? Or does it just bolt to the end of the ZF and dangle? Seems like that'd put a lot of torque on the tailshaft.
I think it was a great deal too, like you say, if it doesn't need any work. I did drain the ATF last night because it started running out of the shifter tower when I stood it up on the bellhousing. The ATF did have some metal fines in it, but I don't know if it was more than should have been in it. Both the input and output shafts seem solid. The input has a small amount of shake to it, but doesn't seem excessive. I was glad to see the dropdown bracket still on the crossmember

I know the pedal bracket won't fit, but was hoping the shaft would so I snatched it. I'll have to pull it out with the lever and try to compare it.

I don't think the 4407 had any additional support under it. That does seem like a lot of weight to just be dangling off the back for sure.

I think I'm just going to rebuild my NP208 and use it. I picked up a rebuild kit a few weeks ago. I'll probably still need a chain.
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