Black Beauty Gets Long Blocked!!! - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #1 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
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Black Beauty Gets Long Blocked!!!

Hey guys. I've been pretty quite lately but still checking in regularly. Been keeping myself busy and just had a nice week long visit with my brother from Vancouver, Wa. Black Beauty's been running as smooth as I could ask for since I pulled the engine for the rear main/oil pan gasket and all the little stuff cleanup in the process. No signs of any leaks either... so I assumed everything was golden.

I was driving the backwoods highway home after dropping my bro off at Mom's place (45 minutes away). Passed a slow car and buried the speedo, not really meaning too. I backed off as I pulled back into my lane and before I got down back down to 60, the engine just stopped running. No bucking, spitting, sputtering... nothing. Just suddenly dead cruising down the highway at speed. I slipped into neutral as I started looking for a decent spot to pull off.
After I got her stopped safely... she refused the start again. The fuel pump is priming, a quick check on the schrader valve on the fuel rail and she spit fuel out but she just turns and turns, with no real attempt to fire over.
The way she died, it was almost as if something important just fell off or something. I crawled all around her, under and all over inside the hood but I couldn't find anything disconnected or even loose. Since I'd picked up dinner on the way home, I called the lil' lady and had her come get me and the dog. I went right back after stuffing my face, with Dad and his '78 and we towed her home. I haven't tried to dig into anything yet... but before I do, I thought I should get some pointers on where to go and what to look for.

Fuel and spark are the general go-to's I know of. Like I said... pump is priming, fuel rail appears to have pressure and all hoses look to be solid. If not for that... I might have thought the fuel cut-off switch tripped or something. Checked the cap and plugs and everything is secure and in it's place, as it should be, where I left it. The check engine light came on shortly after she died, so I'll probably check for codes and such but I'm pretty sure it has to be something I didn't do right... even though she's been running great for weeks. Anybody got a good place for me to start checking tomorrow?

Thanks.
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post #2 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 12:42 AM
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Id start with the icm? Ive had it happen to me twice.
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post #3 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by fordbronco1995 View Post
Id start with the icm? Ive had it happen to me twice.
I'd start there as well. Although I will say that when mine blew it filled the cabin with smoke. Better check it out.
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post #4 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 01:18 AM
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If you have a timing light, clip it on #1 plug wire (leave the spout in), and crank it. You should see the spark at about 20° BTDC. If the ICM and the PCM are working, the spark will have some advance. (maybe not 20°, but more than base timing of 10°). This should tell you if you have a good spark system, that the distributor didn't lose the rotor, and that the coil is working.
If that doesn't give you a good starting place, then try this guide:
Part 1 -How to Troubleshoot a No Start (Ford 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L).
Please don't throw any parts at it unless you've proved that they are bad.

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post #5 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 04:16 AM
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Usually this is the ICM failing. Heating up then failing, especially under hard acceleration, is one of the classic symptoms.

Don't be surprised if it lights right back up when you go back tomorrow and try starting it.
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post #6 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 06:31 AM Thread Starter
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appreciate the tips guys. I'll report back when I get a clue.
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post #7 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 10:25 AM
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Could be a temperature sensor somewhere too. I got my 96 (SD obd1) too hot once after blowing a radiator hose. It basically died rolling down the offramp. It refused to start again. After towing home and checking the next day it fired right up, and it's been running ever since, depositing fluids all over NE Kansas.

Had this happen in my dad's 04 psd... hpop went out on the highway 500 miles from home. That was about a 6k repair bill
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post #8 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 11:52 AM
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If the fuel rail pissed out some fuel you at least had SOME fuel pressure, so it would have slowly died, not the way you described
I'd place real high odds on something Ign related

No CEL code(s) ?
Check that you have oil on the dipstick
Make sure there is coolant too before you re-start
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post #9 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 02:26 PM
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ICM is a great starting place bud. One of the reasons most are wrapped in coils or something to try and keep them cool. Pulling codes should get you a general area to start (you know this) Good luck.
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post #10 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 03:08 PM
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I had one fail on me after downshifting to pass a bus while merging off an on-ramp onto the highway. It felt so weird as i passed the bus up un the higher 3k rpm range the truck just shut off. No stumble no exhaust crackle or pop. Ended up being the icm. Im about ready to start carrying an extra in my truck. Come to think of it, i might order one next week just in case
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post #11 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordbronco1995 View Post
I had one fail on me after downshifting to pass a bus while merging off an on-ramp onto the highway. It felt so weird as i passed the bus up un the higher 3k rpm range the truck just shut off. No stumble no exhaust crackle or pop. Ended up being the icm. Im about ready to start carrying an extra in my truck. Come to think of it, i might order one next week just in case
I've always kept a spare TFI in my rig..probably why it's never failed..


hope you get it sorted quickly Pepe'..
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post #12 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordbronco1995 View Post
I had one fail on me after downshifting to pass a bus while merging off an on-ramp onto the highway. It felt so weird as i passed the bus up un the higher 3k rpm range the truck just shut off. No stumble no exhaust crackle or pop. Ended up being the icm. Im about ready to start carrying an extra in my truck. Come to think of it, i might order one next week just in case
You're going to order it and NEVER need it.

But--if you don't order it, it's going to blow tomorrow and leave you stranded somewhere.
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post #13 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 06:12 PM
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post #14 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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appreciate all the input guys.

so is this on ongoing problem part? never had an issue with one in the past. maybe a problem specific to the 5th gens?

had to run around all day taking care of other stuff. finally got the FSB pushed in the shop.
I haven't checked for codes yet. the CEL light is lit but since it won't actually start, I don't know if it's even got a code to throw.
As noted, it won't start up today... so IF it is the ICM, it didn't just overheat and shut down, it fried. I checked for oil on the highway and rechecked oil and coolant, both remain topped off with no loss or leaks.

I'm not real confident with this stupid timing light Handy_Andy had me pickup at the parts store for working on "Stinky". Damn thing has way more settings than I'll ever bother figuring out how to use. I can't be sure I set the light itself up right but I connected it up (+/- & #1 plug wire) and had Dad turn it over for me. The light didn't light up at all. Since the pulse of the light goes according to the plug wire it's connected too... I have to assume there's no spark getting to the plug(s). If the ICM is a control type module for the distributor, then I would assume the ICM has gone bad, leaving the system with no spark...? Since I was able to verify I had the fuel pump priming and still had fuel pressure at the rail when it spit up out of the schrader valve, this has to be a spark issue, I just don't know enough about the ICM yet to say.

I'll search the site again to see if I can find a decent, educational thread on the ICM for the '95. So far, all I really know is I'm supposed to have the black one and not the gray one. Beyond that... I don't even know what it looks like or where it is.

fwiw, symptoms exactly matched with what @fordbronco1995 posted.
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post #15 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 06:30 PM
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Yo Pepe`,
Check for KOEO codes anyway.
The engine temperature must be greater than 50°F (10°C) to pass the KOEO Test.
Place ignition key in the ON position.
Record all Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) displayed.
DON'T Depress throttle during Key On Engine Off Self-Test on gasoline engine applications.

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post #16 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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I'll have to give that a shot Al. Thanks. Searching through I found a very informative thread but it's waaay over my head and is dealing with modifications, not so much repairs. http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/...l-modules.html

At least now I know what it should look like and a rough idea of where it might be. I don't recall seeing anything like it with a heat sink setup and the wire coming off the dist. for the remote mount goes right into the rest of the harness, so that's not a whole lot of help. I'll get out there and dink around some more.
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post #17 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 07:22 PM
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Lets take a step back... use a multimeter to make sure your coil didnt shoot craps all of a sudden. Also make sure the wires leading to the coil are connected and in good shape.

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post #18 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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already done so bud. besides checking all the plug wires and connectors I could see on the road side, I rechecked when I got her in the shop. no reason to suspect anything having to do with the plug wires or the dist. fresh cap, rotor, plugs and wires... as you likely recall. only thing I didn't replace was the coil and everything feels solid and properly seated. I may have to test the coil though... on further reflection, without the timing light evn coming on, I can see why you'd want to look that way. No idea how to test it w/a multi-meter. I can barely use the mm as it is.

meanwhile... back at the ranch...

I did find the fender mounted ICM unit with the heat sink, right under the cruise control box and EEC test plugs and right in front of the SPOUT connector I just replaced. I went ahead and ran the KOEO test with the reader.

KOEO = 111 - nothing, zip, nada
Cont. Memory - 211 = Profile Ignition Pickup (P.I.P.) Circuit Fault
I'm not dead certain but pretty sure I scanned over a comment that's the code for a bad ICM. I'll search a bit more and try to verify.



I'm also recalling some earlier comments I made in my engine pull thread that after adjusting the timing from scratch and idle was perfect, I was having just a slight hesitation starting her up. Nothing major or problematic. Barely enough to notice but not as smooth as it should be. Perhaps this was my first sign of the ICM starting to fail?
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post #19 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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oh man. so... I didn't realize what the PIP actually was. After some confusing and mostly unrelated reading... I'm looking at rebuilding or replacing my distributor? either my search-fu has gone to crap or our site has so much muddled info, it's a cluster-fluk.
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post #20 of 538 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 08:14 PM
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A bunch of years back my 88 up and quit on me prolly 20mi from home. I ended up getting it towed to Pep Boys. They had mechanics working on Sunday! It was the ignition module that took a crap. The 88 was my only ride back then and it had to be fixed now. I'm not sure, but I think it cost me around $250.00 total! But I had wheels again. I think mine is mounted below the distributor. They cracked the cap pulling it off and tried to charge ME for a new one! That didn't happen. Never been back to P/B since! Good luck with yours!
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