Electric Fan install. 1989 460 EFI - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #1 of 82 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 05:39 AM Thread Starter
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Electric Fan install. 1989 460 EFI

Here is the official tech write up for my electric fan install.
Until I get it in and 100 percent wired up the way I want it (couple months from now), this will not be complete. I'm going to update it along the way.

Background:
As with most things I do related to my truck, I researched, researched, and researched some more. I read just about every thread on electric fan installs on this site (including the crappy ones), plus a bunch on other internet sites into other vehicles (including the crappy ones). This research is what pointed me in the direction to get the parts I did. I asked alot of questions, and bothered alot of people. But I dont care.
All pictures are hosted on Superford, link is in my sig.

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39380
This thread got me excited about doing it, and has a TON of knowledge ant links to other threads in it. BOOKMARK!

Expectations/Reasons for doing it:
My truck gets 9mpg city, driving like I stole it. I'll see what I get when I'm done. Most people claim increased mpg of 1-2mpg, and better throttle response. Plus I get to add another switch in my truck. Switches are cool.



Here are the supplies I got. I might not use all of them but I got some stuff in case I wanted to use it during the install.
New set of crimpers/cutters/strippers since my 3 dollar hamfest "deals" suck major ass. Project box which will be watertight and house all the relays/controllers/fuses. This will be under the hood somewhere near the radiator. Grommets for said watertightness, fuses, diodes, fan controller, solder, 85 amp continuous duty relay and fan controller.



Here is the fan controller I used. 60 dollars from Advanced Auto Parts Imperial/Hayden 226204. It was out on the floor by the electric radiator fans they sell.
I also got the fan controller that Brian Solderblom used in his project (226203, 20 dollars, simple adjustable thermal switch), but he had to add all the other wiring that the more expensive controller included with it. If you open the full size image and tilt your LCD screen you can see the label and what each wire is for. All I have to do is connect each wire to what it tells me to connect it to and it works. Sorry its so bright.


So I have most, if not all of the stuff needed, besides basic wire and a fuse holder or two. I havent fully decided how to wire it up so I'll get those items as I move along.

Before the project, I had the stock 460 mechanical fan behind a 3 core Modine radiator without a fan shroud. In Florida heat with the AC on my stock temp gauge never even got to the middle. Yea yea I know I need a real gauge...in due time.

I read the whole Taurus Fan thread a few times, and from what I gather, a simple 2 speed taurus fan from a 3.8 liter engine would be more than sufficient for my needs. However since nothing I do has the goal of being "adequate" (except calculus...god I hate calculus) I wanted the biggest/cheapest fan I could get. The lincoln Mark VIII at a claimed 4000+CFM. Alas there were no Lincoln Mark VIII's in my local yard, so I decided to get the next best thing. Nor were there any Windstars to get the dual fan setups from. This left the Taurus or T-bird fans.

Seeing as how my cooling situation is more than adequate, a 2800CFM Taurus fan sealed up to the radiator seemed to also be more than adequate. I walked by many Tauruses with 3.8's and fans but something told me to keep going through the whole Ford section. I passed 2 T-birds in good condition with their fans, and decided to come back if I didnt find a Lincoln or Windstar. I remember hearing the T-bird fans were comparable to a Mark VIII fan, or if not, at least superior to a Taurus fan, so I figured this is an option to get.

On the last row of Fords I walked by this:


A 3.8 liter Taurus fan waiting for me to unplug it and walk away. So I decided to get both the Taurus and T-bird fans and sell the one I didnt use.

Not finding anything better, I walked to the Thunderbirds. They were like brothers, looked the same, sitting side by side. One was a 1994, the other was a 1998.



Here is what it looks like from the side so you know what it looks like walking by. Cars with mechanical fans generally have bigger shrouds.

The T-bird fans are only held in with 2 bolts. I got about a foot of harness with each fan for splicing.



Here is the Taurus fan. 16 inches blade tip to blade tip.


Here is the T-bird fan. 18 inches blad tip to blade tip. I also like the width of the fan blades at the tips. Not only is this the fastest spinning part of any fan/propellor, its much wider. I assumed it would move alot more air than the Taurus fan, especially considering its 2 inches bigger.
Note that both fans are from similar year cars with the same size engine.



Taurus fan 22 inches wide at the shroud.


T-bird fan 22 inches wide at the shroud.


Taurus fan 17 inches tall.

I dont have a picture of the T-bird fan vertically but its square, unlike the Taurus fan, so its ~22inches.


Taurus fan depth. About 5 inches.


T-bird fan depth. About 5 inches.

The only difference I can tell is the T-bird fan is simply taller than the Taurus fan, which does not matter with the big radiator I have.


On to the mechanics of the install.



Remove the 4 fan bolts holding the fan to the pulley.


Remove the fan. It might not want to come off depending on how long its been since it was removed.


Put the fan bolts back in. The pulley is held on by these fan bolts, so its important they go back in.

Now to test fitment of each. I previously hooked each fan up to a 12V power supply to see what each one did. They both seemed similar. I did not notice a big difference in air flow/speed/noise between low speed and high speed settings. I did not notice a big difference between the Taurus fan and T-bird fan either. However the one observation I made was while the velocity of the air between both was similar, the T-bird fan had more TOTAL air moving since it was wider. I had it sitting on a guitar amp, open on both sides, and the column of air it was blowing up was noticably bigger.

Based on this it confirmed my decision to use the T-bird fan.


OK it doesnt fit.


Top down view, you can see its too deep to fit. This is most likely due to the extremely large radiator I have compared to stock


Taurus fan fits perfectly.


Here it is held to the drivers side of the radiator, which is the same position the T-bird fan was in, in the above picture. Notice the plethura of room.


Here it is just for kicks right in the middle of the radiator. Still alot of room.
Someone explain this to me. This is about an inch thinner, but my measurements (shown in pics above) show just about the same thickness.

Read above statement about me aiming for "adequacy" and you probably know I decided to MAKE the T-bird fan fit. Which wasnt that big of a deal anyway...


I checked the space between the fan and the edge of the fan shroud on its longitutinal axis, and there was about 1 inch space, so a half inch of material removal seemed fine.


Here is is flush to the drivers side where it gets the most clearance, and seems to be fine. It's tight but I dont think I'll have any problems.


This mounting tab now stuck past the plane of the fan shroud edge, and it hit the side tanks of the radiator, which are also thicker than the radiator itself. This created a gap between the shroud and the radiator, which moved the fan slightly closer to the engine. I cut this stupid thing off and now the fan is flush to the radiator for a better seal, and there is a little bit more clearance between the fan and pulleys. Hooked it up to my battery on the truck and the fan ran just fine without intereference.

With the fan trimmed to fit, I moved onto the wiring.


I put the control box between the passenger side headlight and radiator. I havent mounted it yet because I will be adding more things to it shortly. The first wire I ran was the IGN ON wire. This allows the fan to run whenever the ignition is ON.


This is the most convenient place I found to tap into an IGN ON source. The green wire is going to my fan controller, and the blue connector is the tie-in. Its a blue/white wire on the EEC relay. Not sure which. I am going to seal this connection up better when I figure out how. I never liked solderless connectors.


I try to check every step of a wiring job I do so I know it is working, and I dont spend hours later backtracking if something doesnt work. Here is the wire (now yellow) going to the fan controller with the IGN ON. Sorry for the glare but trust me, its getting +12V.



Without any big heat shrink I resorted to electrical tape for the splice into the pigtail to the fan. Im using 8 gauge wire so if I go to a dual Taurus fan setup later I'll still be ok.


Here is the 85 amp continuous duty relay. Manufactured by Cole Hersee (Boston, MA). Theres 2 numbers on it. I think the model # is 12V504M, but above it, it says 24059. It's mounted to a radiator core support bolt. The the coil that activates the relay does not ground itself to the case, therefore you must ground one of the studs.


Here is where I put my temperature probe. This is the hottest part of the radiator (so I'm told), and I have the fan controller set at the highest temp limit so the motor can heat up. Because the probe is at the hottest point of the radiator, I dont have any adjustment left. I might move the probe to a cooler part of the radiator so I can back the controller to a lower temp setting and get some adjustment back. We'll see, I'll play with it later.


AC clutch wire is installed and works fine. This green wire comes from the fan controller. It is tied into the black/yellow wire on the AC clutch harness.


This is where I routed the wires to the fan. Gonna put split hose around it when I get a chance.



Bottom up view...


UPDATE 10/04/2005:

Put about 2000 miles on it, havent noticed any mileage increase. Possibly even a loss in mileage due to my AC being on constantly in the summer heat, even with adequate airflow through the radiator such as on the interstate. 2 Taurus fans put a good load on the alternator, so it possibly negates any mileage increase I would have realized. In percentage of total load on my engine, my mechanical fan was probably much less than most Broncos (percentage wise). I have 37's and stock gears so my motor has alot of work to do to get me moving, so the lack of fan is not as noticable due to my horrible gear situation. I will update my mileage numbers when the weather cools down and Im not using my AC.

I also decided to put in 2 Taurus fans instead of the single Thunderbird fan.

This was because I noticed the temp gauge going higher than normal. It never overheated, but it took a while for the needle to go back to where it normally stays after a hard run with the AC on.

Seeing as I havent towed anything or done any real hard work with my truck in extreme heat with the AC on (it hardly works), I saw room for improvement. My goal is to be able to tow heavy loads, or do multiple pulls of my stuck friends trucks while the AC is on etc. Dual Taurus fans were the answer.


34.5 inches after cutting the shroud.


My radiator is about 28-29 inches so I used cardboard to make a template and see where I needed to cut.



Rough cuts made, I had to tweak it and make some more minor cuts to get it to sit level where I wanted it.




My wiring job. I dont really like it, but I kept the longer 8 gauge wires intact until I figure out what I'm going to do with that fuse box I got from the Thunderbird.


Here is the mount. A 1 inch wide strip of aluminum bent to follow the countours of the shroud. It sticks behind the lip at the bottom of the radiator core support, and the lip holds it in place so it doesnt go back toward the engine. The top part is bolted to the lip of the radiator and it is the only bolt that holds the whole fan assembly in. Remove it, and you can remove the whole fan assembly.
However its not very supportive, and I think it needs extra support, especially if I go off road with vibration and flexing. I think the mount might fall out if I hit a good enough bump.

P.S. No making fun of my battery tie-down allowed.

Update2: The 85 amp relay seems adequate to handle the current of 2 fans. One problem I ran into after a few months, however was related to wiring. The wire gauge I used was fine, but the cheap connectors at the relay were not adequate to the current flow. The nut on the stud holds the connector down on the nylon spacer that keeps the stud from moving around in the relay, and insulates it from the metal case of the relay. The low surface area of the ring terminal I used would heat up in extended operation, and eventually melted the plastic of the spacer. The pressure from the nut pushing on the connector mushed the ring terminal into the melted plastic, which, after hardening would be between the nut and ring terminal itself, thereby insulating it from the stud.

To fix this, I got another nut (5/16 fine thread IIRC) and sandwiched a higher quality ring terminal between them. This allowed current to flow to the ring terminal through both nuts, and therefore both sides of the ring terminal, doubling the surface area. So far it seems great.


Update3: While the fans were out of commission for a week or so, and I couldnt fix them due to my broken arm, I drove my truck anyway since all the trips I make are 15 mins or less. I didnt use my AC during this period to avoid overheating. With NO fan's running, and moderate stop and go driving in the hot Daytona city driving, I never had an overheating problem. Driving at 30+ mph is more than adequate airflow to keep the 460 cool. I even flipped on the AC, and as long as I'm moving, no problems. This is a HUGE deal, I think the fans dont even need to be on if the truck is moving, with or without AC. That would present a great opportunity to change my wiring to keep the fans off more, when not needed.

-Will
89 XLT 460
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post #2 of 82 (permalink) Old 05-12-2005, 01:08 AM
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looks sweet, I plan on having this together before heading to Arkansas to the meet&greet! Just wondering, do you have a part number for the relay? or the price? I will be running JUST a switch..so basically just need a relay and a switch. Thanks!

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post #3 of 82 (permalink) Old 05-13-2005, 10:20 AM
 
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I interested in doing this mod, but am worried about the A/C. Does the relay you found include wiring to the A/C?
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post #4 of 82 (permalink) Old 05-13-2005, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Yes and thats a good worry to have. I've noticed with my AC on, it runs noticeably warmer. Of course the fan is on due to the temp rise, but it would have a head start on the increased load if it comes on right away with the AC.

The fan controller I'm using includes a wire for the AC clutch, but I havent hooked it up yet, I just bought the proper connectors today. However I've been using the AC to see how the fan is doing keeping the truck cool.

Since I did this mod my AC has gradually stopped working. I'm not sure if they are related, it never worked as good as I thought it should anyway, but I chalked that up to the large interior volume of a Bronco it has to cool. But its definitely worthless now, maybe 10-20 degrees cooler than the outside air. I'm going to recharge it and see if its a freon leak (which I suspect it is). Once I find out for sure what it is, I'll know if its related to the electric fan or not. I doubt it is but you never know.
-Will
89 XLT 460
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post #5 of 82 (permalink) Old 05-15-2005, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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85 amp relay model # 12V504M, or 24059. Not sure cuz both of these numbers are printed on the case. Made by Cole Hersee, price was about 20 bucks. The check I wrote was 25 but I think I got something else there too....Writeup updated with more pics.

As far as my AC goes, I hooked up the AC clutch wire, and it works fine. The compressor cycles on and off pretty quickly, and if I remember correctly, thats an indication of low freon.

-Will
89 XLT 460
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post #6 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-13-2005, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Tech writeup updated with my dual Taurus fan install. Also I changed the relay specs to 85 amp, which is true. No idea why the parts counter guy told me 300 amp.

As far as my AC problem, it seems to have stabilized to slightly cool. I still use it as it is somewhat effective and it hasnt gotten anyworse. So who knows. At this point I think its just coincidence.

However I do want to hook up the low speed side of the fan to my AC and have it run continuous as opposed to cycling with the compressor.

-Will
89 XLT 460
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post #7 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2005, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kf4amu
Tech writeup updated with my dual Taurus fan install. Also I changed the relay specs to 85 amp, which is true. No idea why the parts counter guy told me 300 amp.

As far as my AC problem, it seems to have stabilized to slightly cool. I still use it as it is somewhat effective and it hasnt gotten anyworse. So who knows. At this point I think its just coincidence.

However I do want to hook up the low speed side of the fan to my AC and have it run continuous as opposed to cycling with the compressor.

-Will
89 XLT 460
Will,

1) I find it real cool you decided to update on your situation after discovering the single electric might not be cutting it as you liked.
2) Thanks for the MPG estimate. many thing they will do this mod, pick up 2MPG and go run 15's at the track (estimated 10-20more HP as well with electrics).
3), you show there is considerable effort needed to do this right.
4), stock belt fans pull a tremendous amount of air, so it's hard to beat them with electrics, and requires a huge single aggressive blade, or preferably duals
5) proper fitment to the radiator is also critical. You can find some compression rubber made to fit between the cut shroud and radiator.

How are the electrics working while idling vs. stock? As far as MPG's, are you able to switch your electrics off while highway cruising?

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post #8 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2005, 01:55 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejuice
Will,

1) I find it real cool you decided to update on your situation after discovering the single electric might not be cutting it as you liked.
2) Thanks for the MPG estimate. many thing they will do this mod, pick up 2MPG and go run 15's at the track (estimated 10-20more HP as well with electrics).
3), you show there is considerable effort needed to do this right.
4), stock belt fans pull a tremendous amount of air, so it's hard to beat them with electrics, and requires a huge single aggressive blade, or preferably duals
5) proper fitment to the radiator is also critical. You can find some compression rubber made to fit between the cut shroud and radiator.

How are the electrics working while idling vs. stock? As far as MPG's, are you able to switch your electrics off while highway cruising?
1. It might have been a situation of where my temp probe was. Its located where the upper radiator hose comes into the radiator, subjecting it to temp spikes. But I think this is the best location for it for cooling purposes.
I've got the temp switch cranked up to 210 or so. Since its measuring the hottest point I dont want it coming on if the radiator can keep up, such as on the highway.

2. I'm disappointed. I want more MPG! I guess I need to spend more money on other stuff now.

3. I like switches. That was my main inspiration for this.

4. The only # I saw for the stock mechanical fan is 10,000 CFM that someone threw out there in one of these threads. Whether thats accurate or not, I'm sure its close, that thing moves serious air. The only bad thing is its only at high RPM, not where my truck normally is running. If each Taurus fan is 3500CFM, I've got 7000 CFM at idle.

5. Compression rubber? Where can I find that? I need something to seal up the gaps a little better. I was thinking foam tape, but I'm not sure it will handle 200+degrees.


Electrics work fine at idle. The largest load is when the AC is on. The way I have it set up at the moment is the fans kick on when the compressor kicks in. So I have a AC compressor load and a large amperage load hitting the motor all at once. According to the stock gauge the voltage drops, then climbs back up to normal.

I have some kind of vacuum leak or something thats making my engine idle at 1100 or so in neutral, which is fine with me. In gear it idles at 800, so I dont mind it idling high in neutral. Runs the accessories alot better, like my York OBA and alternator.

I havent hooked up the siwtch yet so I cannot manually turn it off. At this point its on permanent automatic. I'm going to order some badass switches off Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWN%3AIT
and have a metal plate cut out for them to fit in. I'm gonna order about 10 switches so I'm gonna wait till I have 110 bucks to buy them, then I'll hook up the fans to it, but I'll take my time.

Plus I havent been on the highway at all since I installed these fans. I dont really leave the city of Daytona too much.
-Will
89 XLT 460
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post #9 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2005, 05:08 AM
 
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Have you upgraded your alt. to compensate for the extra amps needed? If not, have you had any charging probs. or any probs running with the lights/stereo on?
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post #10 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-14-2005, 05:26 AM Thread Starter
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Just a 130 amp 3G. No charging problems.

I have a stock stereo and no off road lights. The biggest draws on my alternator are the electric fans, headlights, and blower for the AC/heater. Other than that I dont have anything major.
-Will
89 XLT 460
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post #11 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-17-2005, 04:10 PM
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can you draw an electrical diagram for your dual fan install, indicating wich cable goes where, specifically the relay ???

thank you
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post #12 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-17-2005, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Good lord. Not really. I dont have any experience with drawing schematics or anything like that online.

Once you do one relay, you've done them all.

-Will
89 XLT 460
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post #13 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 02:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG-BLUE-BRONCO
I hope its nothing serious, but please keep me posted. This is going in my bronco in the next month or as soon as I find the parts (meaning get my lazy @ss to the junkyard).

Since you asked, I will answer. Yesterday I bought a 20 dollar can of R-134a freon which included a gauge and hose. Hooked her up, the gauge indicated it needed freon so I added some (push the trigger on the can).

The compressor was cycling pretty quickly on and off 4-5 seconds each time.

I immediately noticed it stayed on longer after only a couple seconds of adding freon. Apparently once the low side of the system runs out of freon (the compressor sucks it from the low side) and the compressor doesnt have anything to draw from, it kicks off until the freon cycles through the system and it has enough to draw from. Once you add some it can stay on longer and keep the air cooler.

When I was done putting the 16 oz can in, the compressor never turned off at idle. The gauge indicated the low side pressure held steady around 30psi, when revved up it dropped to about 25 before the compressor kicked off, once it reached 45 or so it kicked back on.

Now, My air is ICE COLD

So obviously I was low on freon. No idea where it went all of a sudden, and I'm not sure it was related to the fan. Either way, I got it full of freon, we'll see how long it lasts. Cools the truck down nicely in this florida heat.

-Will
89 XLT 460
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post #14 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
can you draw an electrical diagram for your dual fan install, indicating wich cable goes where, specifically the relay ???
There's a nice diagram here:


http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...an/index.shtml

That shows wiring with the fan controller and the extra relay and diode (if you want to use it/them).

This is basically the diagram that I used on my electric fan install and it works great.

Dan

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post #16 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 05:20 AM
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How much cooler (if any) does the engine run with the Taurus dual fan compared to the T-bird and stock fans? Particularly in the stop/go traffic in the city? Im in the process of putting a 460 based engine in my truck and Ive picked up a Mark VIII fan for the project and I want to know what to expect.
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post #17 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
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The stock mechanical fan is fine. It cools the engine just fine, in stop and go traffic with the AC on. I've not towed anything, but with the gearing I have, it puts a larger load on the engine so it might represent that.

The Thunderbird/Mark VIII fan was fine. The only issue I had with it was a lag in the time it took to drop the temperature. If the temp spiked a little bit due to a hard run/AC on, the thunderbird fan just seemed to take too long to drop it down. And considering I havent ran my truck as hard as I plan to, I figured I better go all the way and remove all doubt about airflow.

But keep in mind I have the fan controller set at 200-210 degrees, so it was already at a disadvantage and had to catch up. It takes time to cool down the 4+ gallons of coolant circulating which is already at the 200+ range, and while the fan is doing that, the coolant is heating up again.

I'd really like to get a IR gun to see some real temperatures and how much the radiator cools the coolant with the fan off vs the fan on to see exactly what and where my temps are.

The issue with my dual taurus fans I have is the amperage draw. They draw a ridiculous amount of amps. Even my 3G struggles to run them with my AC/headlights on. I'll see if just the low sides is adequate, and if not, I'll wire up the high sides on a separate switch, or perhaps the 2nd fan wire on my fan controller is able to turn it on separately at a separate temp.

So basically I went from acceptable but inefficient, to possibly not acceptable, to way overkill.

-Will
89 XLT 460
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post #18 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 10:35 AM
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One Taurus fan is doing fine for me Broke33

but I ain't in Florida and I'm not a 460 either, like kf4amu (nice freepin' thread and write up BTW).

The whole point of doing the electric fan conversion, for me, was gas savings and improved throttle response by virtue of not having to power the mechanical fan all the time, robbing power from the engine.

To date I haven't been able to test the thing scientifically for a mileage improvement, but there is a noticeable throttle response improvement.

If you run the electric fan all the time, supposedly the alternator works harder and you loose the savings. From what kf4amu is saying, with two fans you may not be able to run them both on high all the time, even with a 3G alternator.

I found out that you can run NO FAN and be just fine.

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/show...light=21.6+mpg

Sixlitre

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http://www.superford.org/registry/vehicles/detail.php?id=4970&s=17328#content
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post #19 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 08:28 PM
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I will be running a 545CI that will see some trails and some mud drags and pits. Its going to spin to 7500RPM peak so I dont know how a mechanical fan would hold up under those loads or how well the bearings in the water pump would hold up spinning that fan. I guess with KF4AMU's setup, the controller is set pretty high so I can probably adjust it lower and survive without too many problems. Im also running aluminum heads so maybe my temps will be alittle lower based on that alone. I guess Ill just try it and see from there.

This is a great write up by the way.
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post #20 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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The process is like this. If the radiator can cool down the coolant without the fan, such as on the highway, the fan doesnt turn on. UNLESS there is a spike of hot coolant coming from the engine (because my temp probe is where the hot water from the engine goes into the radiator, subject to temp spikes), in which case the fan comes on until the coolant coming from the engine decreases in temp below the 200-210 degree setting I have.

The only time the thermostat on the engine will shut off is when the coolant EXITING the engine is 180 or less. MY goal is to constantly have coolant circulating in the engine to keep temps equal everywhere, and a higher thermostat will open and close. Having an open thermostat is a good idea, once its above 180.

With a mechanical fan, I believe the air being drawn thru the radiator cools it down enough to shut off the thermostat.

With the electric fan, it allows the engine to stay warm, and if there is a temp spike, the fan controller knows it immediately and turns on the electric fan to drop the temp down to an acceptable level...

-Will
89 XLT 460
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