Trumps Tariffs good or bad? - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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Trumps Tariffs good or bad?

Trump is set to tax everything coming from China at a minimum of 10%, and now due to the immigration crisis is set to tax mexico 5% on all incoming goods. I don't know, maybe he plans to build a wall with the tarriffs?

Yes, I do understand this increases costs to you and me, but I support it. With the new low tax rate, and the tarriffs on the two states the largest threat to the US Mexico and China, I think it's high time we take from them like they take from us. I never thought a president would actually quell free trade so easily, seams like not a lot of people are standing up to him on this. A republican is changing the way we trade with countries, good or bad?

I'm sure many of you feel different, sound off.
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 03:46 AM
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Short term bad, long term good.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 90Beater View Post
Short term bad, long term good.
Spot on👍
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 11:28 AM
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If it's Good for America then fine. We should ALL worry more about OUR country then ourselves a little more. Too much Me, Me, Me goin on nowadays! In life, these days, if there is a problem it USUALLY takes/costs money to fix it, or some Inconvenience in OUR lives for a while. The Revolutionary War was not about Me, Me, Me, BUT US, US, US..... = Everybody/This Country/America/etc.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 10:58 AM
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It is never good to restrict trade..... Unless you don't believe in the free market system. I understand the thinking. We need to ensure that free trade is equal on both sides, but it is a slippery slope to start putting tariffs on trade. We export our culture throughout the world... and China is the largest market on the planet. We definitely want every Chinese teenager listening to US pop music, Buying coca-cola, and one day driving a Harley. Here we only care about cheap prices (regardless of where it is made).
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 12:33 PM
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Tariffs


Sorry, thats all I can give this right now.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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It is never good to restrict trade..... Unless you don't believe in the free market system. I understand the thinking. We need to ensure that free trade is equal on both sides, but it is a slippery slope to start putting tariffs on trade. We export our culture throughout the world... and China is the largest market on the planet. We definitely want every Chinese teenager listening to US pop music, Buying coca-cola, and one day driving a Harley. Here we only care about cheap prices (regardless of where it is made).
Free trade with countries that don't play by the same rules aint free, it costs you and me and benefits them. Why we let China get away with so much is beyond me. And my proposal is policitics of Grand Caymen, no property tax no income tax, only a tax in incoming good x25%. It is similar to one tax rate for everyone. Now, the US the poor pay nothing for the edication of thier children, and to top that off take take take. Property owners pay the freight even if they don't have kids, and our taxation system is horribel to navigate, even with "post card" tax returns people still need to hire tax people.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 03:30 AM
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8< We definitely want every Chinese teenager listening to US pop music, Buying coca-cola, and one day driving a Harley. Here we only care about cheap prices (regardless of where it is made).
The don't buy that stuff from us. They counterfeit it then sell it as their own.





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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 07:52 AM
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Im for it...unless both sides play by the same rules, It isn't equal trade.

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2 spares?? Are you sure thats gonna be enough????
Proud to be politically incorrect.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 09:28 AM
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Opinion -No, Mr. President: China didn't steal our jobs. Corporate America gave them away
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 09:44 AM
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I think tariffs are a great way to punish a currency manipulator- make 'em pay twice!
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 10:34 AM
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Of course China will want to take advantage of money hungry outside companies that want to come into their country and exploit their markets. Its part of the old saying "something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it". If a western company is willing to give away all their "trade secrets" just to have access to the marketplace it must have value. They purposely undervalue their goods to "dump" product" at unreasonably lower prices to gain market share. When Walmart does this we call it a great business model. Does it suck when a Walmart comes to town and puts all the small businesses owners out? Does it suck that China has 1.43 billion and America has 329,000 million people? It is simple math... there market place is bigger than ours. If we cut off all trade between the countries who would suffer more? The big question is what about India? Their population is 1.36 billion but they are so splintered... and cannot get on the same page... it is comical. Once India gets their infrastructure together we will be the homeless guy on the corner begging these two giants for spare change. Best not for a homeless guy to throw rocks at the same cars he will one day have to hold out his cup to.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 11:04 PM
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After I read & liked that article, i figure some clarity is needed.

"Corporate Greed" & off shoring, just about nailed it. (Mostly)

Add in the big tax breaks for corporations and then these tariffs,
I feel they are really going after the Working Middle Class and
Working Poor to open the separation between Rich / Poor to a new level.

My Example of Corporate Greed is "Carrier", of the 1,100 jobs Bragged about being saved. (which was Actually only about 750)

The jobs for "joe, steve, herbert" were saved and the Govt' gave them big $$$ for doing that.

But in reality, albert, bob & denisse lost their jobs due to the
"Continued Corporate" decision to Shift Labor to Mexico from other plants instead of what was being "headlined" as saved.

Then they took that "Govt Cheese" and Automated other areas costing Additional Working Americans their jobs too.....
(If i recall correctly, it was actually More than the original "touted" 1,100 saved)

Someone actually argued to me that "We would Keep jobs for Maintaining those closed Plants"....
meaning that the Skilled Worker earning $50 - $75k annual pay for those jobs would actually be offset by maintenance workers earning $12- $15 per hr.
(I thought to myself whaaat?)

It's really to bad these tariffs will be shouldered by the U.S. Consumer and
Not Corporate America.

Speaking of Retaliatory Tariffs, How many Farmers / Ranchers & Workers are being Hurt by this part of the equation?

While We are Guaranteed Nothing & live in a "Right to Work" Nation I feel
the the last Paragraph (last 3 sentences) doesn't really reflect my Liking
of the overall article and it felt kinda "socialistic" to me.

Me thinks that we All need to Wake Up and pay closer attention
because I really think we are on the edge of "Screwed".

as far as the OP -
Short term pain & long term gain (Maybe)

Later,
Dragon
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 04:36 AM
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In CA a lot of the companies were forced out by the environmental extremest. China and Mexico don't give a damn about that and took them in.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 10:00 PM
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Right?

And I'm sure those Corporate Executives said,

So you want to save the planet huh? OK,
we will just take our jobs elsewhere and Not pay your $28.50+ per hr,
401k's, Insurance or Retirements either.

Wait, What? now there are Tariffs?
Pass it right along to those "little folk" who purchase our products.

Between that And the $$ we save on taxation.
= Win Win for our Shareholders and a Better "Golden Parachute."


Then add in the Politics,,,,,,,
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
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Right?

And I'm sure those Corporate Executives said,

So you want to save the planet huh? OK,
we will just take our jobs elsewhere and Not pay your $28.50+ per hr,
401k's, Insurance or Retirements either.

Wait, What? now there are Tariffs?
Pass it right along to those "little folk" who purchase our products.

Between that And the $$ we save on taxation.
= Win Win for our Shareholders and a Better "Golden Parachute."


Then add in the Politics,,,,,,,
You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

So many companies that started out in So Cal now make everything out of the country.

Vans Shoes. Started in So Cal - now made in China.

Many more but I'm too tired to look right now.

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-22-2019, 11:36 AM
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Man...am I ever confused ....The President labels China a Currency Manipulator....then throws a twitter fit when the Federal Reserve doesn't manipulate Our currency low enough?...
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 10:26 AM
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“Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME.” - President Donald J Trump


You know, for someone who is so critical of Chinese trade policy, he sure is doing his best to emulate it.
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 12:03 PM
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Gotta steps on these countries throats. When they doubt you; fight them with more fire.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-25-2019, 04:18 AM
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The main problem with the US economy is that globalism has been deconstructing it. The offshoring of US jobs has reduced US manufacturing and industrial capability and associated innovation, research, development, supply chains, consumer purchasing power, and tax base of state and local governments. Corporations have increased short-term profits at the expense of these long-term costs. In effect, the US economy is being moved out of the First World into the Third World.

Tariffs are not a solution. The Trump administration says that the tariffs are paid by China, but unless Apple, Nike, Levi, and all of the offshoring companies got an exemption from the tariffs, the tariffs fall on the offshored production of US firms that are sold to US consumers. The tariffs will either reduce the profits of the US firms or be paid by US purchasers of the products in higher prices. The tariffs will hurt China only by reducing Chinese employment in the production of US goods for US markets.

The financial media is full of dire predictions of the consequences of a US/China “trade war.” There is no trade war. A trade war is when countries try to protect their industries by placing tariff barriers on the import of cheaper products from foreign countries. But half or more of the imports from China are imports from US companies. Trump’s tariffs, or a large part of them, fall on US corporations or US consumers.

One has to wonder that there is not a single economist anywhere in the Trump administration, the Federal Reserve, or anywhere else in Washington capable of comprehending the situation and conveying an understanding to President Trump.

One consequence of Washington’s universal economic ignorance is that the financial media has concocted the story that “Trump’s tariffs” are not only driving Americans into recession but also the entire world. Somehow tariffs on Apple computers and iPhones, Nike footwear, and Levi jeans are sending the world into recession or worse. This is an extraordinary economic conclusion, but the capacity for thought has pretty much disappeared in the United States.

In the financial media the question is: Will the Trump tariffs cause a US/world recession that costs Trump his reelection? This is a very stupid question. The US has been in a recession for two or more decades as its manufacturing/industrial/engineering capability has been transferred abroad. The US recession has been very good for the Asian part of the world. Indeed, China owes its faster than expected rise as a world power to the transfer of American jobs, capital, technology, and business know-how to China simply in order that US shareholders could receive capital gains and US executives could receive bonus pay for producing them by lowering labor costs.

Apparently, neoliberal economists, an oxymoron, cannot comprehend that if US corporations produce the goods and services that they market to Americans offshore, it is the offshore locations that benefit from the economic activity.

Offshore production started in earnest with the Soviet collapse as India and China opened their economies to the West. Globalism means that US corporations can make more money by abandoning their American work force. But what is true for the individual company is not true for the aggregate. Why? The answer is that when many corporations move their production for US markets offshore, Americans, unemployed or employed in lower paying jobs, lose the power to purchase the offshored goods.

It has been reported for years that US jobs are no longer middle class jobs. The jobs have been declining for years in terms of value-added and pay. With this decline, aggregate demand declines. We have proof of this in the fact that for years US corporations have been using their profits not for investment in new plant and equipment, but to buy back their own shares. Any economist worthy of the name should instantly recognize that when corporations repurchase their shares rather than invest, they see no demand for increased output. Therefore, they loot their corporations for bonuses, decapitalizing the companies in the process. There is perfect knowledge that this is what is going on, and it is totally inconsistent with a growing economy.

As is the labor force participation rate. Normally, economic growth results in a rising labor force participation rate as people enter the work force to take advantage of the jobs. But throughout the alleged economic boom, the participation rate has been falling, because there are no jobs to be had.

In the 21st century the US has been decapitalized and living standards have declined. For a while the process was kept going by the expansion of debt, but consumer income has not kept pace and consumer debt expansion has reached its limits.

The Fed/Treasury “plunge protection team” can keep the stock market up by purchasing S&P futures. The Fed can pump out more money to drive up financial asset prices. But the money doesn’t drive up production, because the jobs and the economic activity that jobs represent have been sent abroad. What globalism did was to transfer the US economy to China.

Real statistical analysis, as contrasted with the official propaganda, shows that the happy picture of a booming economy is an illusion created by statistical deception. Inflation is undermeasured, so when nominal GDP is deflated, the result is to count higher prices as an increase in real output, that is, inflation becomes real economic growth. Unemployment is not counted. If you have not searched for a job in the past 4 weeks, you are officially not a part of the work force and your unemployment is not counted. The way the government counts unemployment is so extraordinary that I am surprised the US does not have a zero rate of unemployment.

How does a country recover when it has given its economy away to a foreign country that it now demonizes as an enemy? What better example is there of a ruling class that is totally incompetent than one that gives its economy bound and gagged to an enemy so that its corporate friends can pocket short-term riches?

We can’t blame this on Trump. He inherited the problem, and he has no advisers who can help him understand the problem and find a solution. No such advisers exist among neoliberal economists. I can only think of four economists who could help Trump, and one of them is a Russian.

The conclusion is that the United States is locked on a path that leads directly to the Third World of 60 years ago. President Trump is helpless to do anything about it.
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