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post #381 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CDA 455 View Post
This reminds me of that mindfuk gear aptitude puzzle/question:




the same as X
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post #382 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 02:54 PM
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What lift size are your coils?

Just snowballing here...
Six inch brackets, plus dropping the buckets 2 inches would really want 4" springs. Using a six inch spring would automatically cause the camber issue. A six inch spring in that case would make an 8 inch lift, but your pivot is still set at 6". If you wanted to net ten inches of lift, using 8" springs, you would need a 4" drop c&t beam. Just moving the lower BJ tab out doesnt seem like it would accomplish that 4" of drop.

At any rate, yea I'd start by pulling those spacers and installing the k80108 bushings. From my point of view that might get it back to where you started.



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post #383 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 02:57 PM
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“The 4” cut and turn should add no lift” huh? My understanding is that the 4” cut and turned beams eliminated the need for drop brackets because the 4” drop is build into the new shape of the beam. And they also fix the camber issue.

No?


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post #384 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDA 455 View Post
This reminds me of that mindfuk gear aptitude puzzle/question:




B: c/w 10rpm. I think. Lol



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post #385 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by biggum View Post
“The 4” cut and turn should add no lift” huh? My understanding is that the 4” cut and turned beams eliminated the need for drop brackets because the 4” drop is build into the new shape of the beam. And they also fix the camber issue.

No?


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Nope, beam shape is the same, moving the ball joint farther out corrected the camber using the stock mount w/4" of lift:

Desolate Motor Sports description:

"This beam package will correct camber on lifted vehicles and adds strength with smoother articulation.

We offer 4 different stages when it comes to a modified TTB on your Bronco or F150. The Stage 3 TTB remains stock width, is camber corrected, has plating added for strength, and beam pivots converted to uniballs. The difference between this and the Stage Two is the full truss that extends across the rest of the beam. We also open up the window on the passenger beam to prevent the axle shaft from contacting the beam at full droop. This is recommended for Broncos and F150s with increased wheel travel looking for better articulation and a stronger beam than stock.


Features:

Corrects camber on raised Broncos and F150s
Plating adds strength
Full Truss
Better articulation
Stock Width"
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post #386 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BigBlue 94 View Post
What lift size are your coils?

Just snowballing here...
Six inch brackets, plus dropping the buckets 2 inches would really want 4" springs. Using a six inch spring would automatically cause the camber issue. A six inch spring in that case would make an 8 inch lift, but your pivot is still set at 6". If you wanted to net ten inches of lift, using 8" springs, you would need a 4" drop c&t beam. Just moving the lower BJ tab out doesnt seem like it would accomplish that 4" of drop.

At any rate, yea I'd start by pulling those spacers and installing the k80108 bushings. From my point of view that might get it back to where you started.
I think we are all getting a little confused here. The 4" cut-n-turn doesn't add any lift. The 4" cut-n-turn means the camber has been corrected for a 4" lift using the stock axle pivot location.

My 6" springs, 2+" of coil tower cut, 1/2" spring mount shim and my air bags gave me 9"-10" of lift with the stock lower ball joint mount. So, in theory, by using a housing with the camber corrected for 4" lift in the stock hole and moving it to the 6" hole, I should be good for 8"-10" of lift, correct? If the lowering bracket corrects the camber for a 4" or a 6" lift , depending on the hole used, shouldn't the additional 4" of lift be corrected with the camber modified housing?

Look at their picture, the mounting point is the stock location and the shape of the housing hasn't changed other than the lower ball joint:

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post #387 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cobrajoe View Post
I think we are all getting a little confused here. The 4" cut-n-turn doesn't add any lift. The 4" cut-n-turn means the camber has been corrected for a 4" lift using the stock axle pivot location.

But then the beam is too short, and you'll be a couple inches narrow on the radius arm mount location in relation to a stock suspension. What you describe needs a 4" drop bracket to be correct, bot the stock pivot bracket.

My 6" springs, 2+" of coil tower cut, 1/2" spring mount shim and my air bags gave me 9"-10" of lift with the stock lower ball joint mount. So, in theory, by using a housing with the camber corrected for 4" lift in the stock hole and moving it to the 6" hole, I should be good for 8"-10" of lift, correct? If the lowering bracket corrects the camber for a 4" or a 6" lift , depending on the hole used, shouldn't the additional 4" of lift be corrected with the camber modified housing?
The air bags have nothing to do with your lift height, if I understand right. They only stiffen the spring rate, meaning the spring doesnt compress as far.

Both drop bracket kits I have had had the 4 and 6" holes exactly above one another. And neither have totally corrected the camber.

My point is you have 8.5" of spring and dropped bucket trying to pivot where a 6" spring would normally be. (Then 2" of spacer!?) Since the C&T didnt move the spring perch lower, you are trying to compress too much spring. See how steep of an angle your beams are at? Either lower the pivot farther or remove spring height.

Put that set of ttb beams on my drop bracket kit in the 4" hole and I bet itd be perfect without the k80108 bushing.

You could maybe simulate a shorter spring by adding the plow weight on the front. That would compress the spring farther, therefore fixing your camber.

If I were going C&T, itd be this style, that is cut and turned inboard of the differential and lengthened to eliminate drop brackets altogether. 6" brackets plus 4" lift c&t beams in this manner would net 10". I just dont see how your style allows any more than 6" of spring on your 6" brackets. Then you dropped the coil bucket 2", so a 4" spring. A 6" spring may not compress enough to allow proper camber?




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post #388 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobrajoe View Post
I think we are all getting a little confused here.

The 4" cut-n-turn doesn't add any lift.
The 4" cut-n-turn means the camber has been corrected for a 4" lift using the stock axle pivot location.

My 6" springs
2+" of coil tower cut
1/2" spring mount shim and my air bags gave me 9"-10" of lift with the stock lower ball joint mount

So, in theory
by using a housing with the camber corrected for 4" lift in the stock hole and moving it to the 6" hole,
I should be good for 8"-10" of lift, correct?

If the lowering bracket corrects the camber for a 4" or a 6" lift , depending on the hole used, shouldn't the additional 4" of lift be corrected with the camber modified housing?
Even after shuffling around your post in a way where I might understand;

Me:
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post #389 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Blue, the airbags do add lift if you utilize the supplied spacer in the bottom of the spring so they have to grow taller. With the bags empty and the truck sitting on the ground, the truck would go up a little over an inch when inflated.


Here are cut-n -turn basics that migh explain things @CDA 455

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post #390 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry, didn't realize the link didn't work: https://therangerstation.com/tech_li...and_turn.shtml

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post #391 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 07:46 PM
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Okay, so yes the lift comes from the longer springs but the angle of the cut and turn axles eliminates the need for drop brackets.

So if you added 4” drop brackets and 4” longer springs I wouldn’t expect any change in camber since the entire system has been dropped.

If you just add springs or spacers then you start to change camber.

I’m still catching up on your thread so bear with me.


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post #392 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 07:54 PM
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The C&Ts allow 4” of lift without needing camber correction.

If you add 6” of lift for a total of 10” I would think you would need to add 6” drop brackets to keep the no camber correction needed condition.

I would also imagine that you’d start having issues with you arms fitting or trying to rotate the axle forward.

I think I’m agreeing with what BigBlue is saying.


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post #393 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 08:56 PM
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Smarter after reading the link on C&T.


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post #394 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 02:14 AM
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post #395 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 07:46 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by biggum View Post
The C&Ts allow 4” of lift without needing camber correction.

Correct, and this is accomplished using the factory mounting hole/pivot point

If you add 6” of lift for a total of 10” I would think you would need to add 6” drop brackets to keep the no camber correction needed condition.

Already have 6" drop brackets and axles are in the 6" mounting hole

I would also imagine that you’d start having issues with you arms fitting or trying to rotate the axle forward.

No sir, arms are longer, angled outwards at the axle end and have been dropped so they are close to factory level, therfore, they do not rotate the axle forward. Keep in mind, I never had a caster issue which tells me my radius arm geometry is correct.

I think I’m agreeing with what BigBlue is saying.

I spoke with Blue yesterday and explained to him what was done as it was waaaaayyyy too much to type.I really think the 2" spacer is the straw that broke the camels back; that coupled with the 1/2° camber bushing. I will install a 3.2° bushings and let everyone know how it works out.

Think about it, I had better camber before. I increased my Negative camber with the new housings, so, in theory, I should have better negative camber now. I don't, I have Positive Camber, so what other things were changed? I added a 2" spring spacer and a pretty close to zero degree alignment bushing. (I don't know what bushing I had in there before, but I can tell you this much, it wasn't as close to center as the bushing I put in)So, if I remove the spacer and replicate the original bushing, my camber should improve.


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post #396 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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Gotta love Amazon Prime, my bushing was delivered on a Holiday.

Hope to get it installed after work tomorrow and spark off a whole new debate/discussion if it it doesn't work, hell, maybe even if it does, lol.


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post #397 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 07:29 PM
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Fingers and toes crossed!
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post #398 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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Fingers and toes crossed!
Yup, because of this thing doesn't work, I'll be fabricating some 8" drop brackets!
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post #399 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 08:04 PM
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post #400 of 564 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 08:21 PM
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Yup, because of this thing doesn't work, I'll be fabricating some 8" drop brackets!
DUUUUUUU EEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTT!!1!
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