300-6 performance engine build - Page 3 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #41 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-06-2018, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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As long as the gears pass my machinists check, yeah I'll reuse them. My parts bill will be high enough without the cloyes gear set lol.



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #42 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-06-2018, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty in Wis View Post
What pistons did you decide to go with?
I haven't. I'll need to see if my block is savable, and determine pistons by the bore size. A flat top with valve reliefs will get me the desired compression I'm after. If my block is trash, I'll probably order an oxx block. I don't want to wade through the feces for hours trying to free the "240" block that may be bad as well since its been sitting with a broken piston for 32 years. Plus I have a business with forklift so shipping would be at the minimum cost.

Does anyone know where the oil pan rail stiffening plates can be found? Or what they are called? If not I can always make some.



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #43 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-06-2018, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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I just got off the phone with Jerry at Schneider cams. Gave him a little info including transmission, gears, tire size, desired use etc, and he gave me a couple cam choices. For 10:1 CR, he gave me this


Part Number: 13918
Grind Number: 262-70H
Intake Duration (gross): 262
Exhaust Duration (gross): 270
Intake Duration (.050”): 208
Exhaust Duration (.050”): 214
Intake Valve Lift*: .464"
Exhaust Valve Lift*: .472"
Lobe Separation: 110
Intake Valve Lash: .000"
Exhaust Valve Lash: .000"
RPM Range:
1800-5200

Figures are with 1.6 rockers. He said 1.7s would work great with it as well. With 1.73 rockers, the lifts would be .502 IN/ .510 EX. That sounds excellent to me.

I asked about roller cams, he said I'd be in the cam and lifters for about 2k, and it wouldn't be worth it for me. I agree lol



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #44 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Now that I'm back to looking at 1.7 ratio rockers, I noticed the scorpion 1.73s are 5/16 pedestal mount. They should slap right on my 85 head. I don't see a problem with this. Aren't the pedestal studs screwed in anyways?

Otherwise I'll be looking at BBC or BBF rollers.



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #45 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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My heads have the c channel connecting both studs. I do know the scorpions will fit under a stock 85 valve cover. I like the figures of the last cam I posted, except the lifts. Seems all the higher lift cams are too high in the rpm range. They also get longer on the duration, which hurts the low end torque. Jerry said they would perform great with their cam, and he's been at Schneider since 75 and crower before that. I've also seen pmuller recommend them as well, though it may have been a mild application.

But I also trust your advice as well. How much does lift affect overall output? Will .040 or so more lift make a noticeable difference? Am I over thinking all this?

From what I've read, a mild duration and high lift is what builds torque best in these.

I'm thinking I should join up on fordsix and see what they all think



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #46 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-07-2018, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, I did ask him about the 1.7 vs 1.6, but we didn't get into much detail at all. He just said they would work great.

Me liking a cam doesn't hold much clout, lol, as I only know what ive read. My 351w had a 258 adv duration, .480 lift and a 114 lsa. Thats my only experience with an aftermarket cam, and it wasn't very wild.

I was talking to a semi driver who brings our paint about my engine rebuild. As soon as I mentioned the 4" bore, his eyes lit up. He drag races highly modified Harley Davidsons, on dirt, and said that his Harleys all have a 4" bore, .927 wrist pin and a similar piston CH. But they use a 7.74" rod. Be cool to have Harley pistons in a 300 hahaha

I might just have to call Jerry back and chat some more.



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #47 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-08-2018, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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Just for fun, I checked out some HD pistons. They would work, if I shaved .75" off the block. Their compression height is only ~1.1".



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #48 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-09-2018, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, that is part of the reason, but not necessity. I'm really just afraid I won't be happy with a more mild cam. But that comes from inexperience. FTF didn't see a problem with them, so it's still up in the air. Nothing is set in stone yet.

I dropped the engine off this morning. He's gonna get it all checked out in a few weeks.



While I was there I noticed a couple very large heads. I knew he did diesels, but not semi diesels! One was nearly 4 feet long and a foot wide!



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.

Last edited by BigBlue 94; 03-10-2018 at 01:20 PM.
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post #49 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-10-2018, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Valve cover tech

Couple pics of a 74 and an 85 valve cover. The 74 is blue



In the next one you'll notice the 85 isn't actually any taller than the 74, only on the ends.



By looking at the underside, I don't see any differences that would cause interference with factory pedestal rockers. In fact the two interior vertical baffles are the exact same.



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #50 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-10-2018, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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It's looking like I'm going to be using a different cam, with the Harland Sharp rockers. Pmuller over on Fordsix really helped me out with the dynamic compression ratio vs cam selection.

From narrowing it down with some good ole math, I think I'll be happiest with a static CR of 9.7, with a 280 cam, giving me a DCR of 7.47. Perfect for 89-91 octane.

Both he and the FTF made a point that given rpm ranges on cams are more accurate for the 240. They tend to be lower in the 300. So a cam with a given 2200-5600 rpm range would be closer to 1600-5000 in a 300. His explanation was that the 300 has 25% more volume than the 240, thus reaching the head's flow limits sooner.



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #51 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, in fact FTF said in two similar engines, one a 300 and one a 240, with the same camshaft, there was a huge difference. The 240 petered out at 7800 rpm, while the 300 was at 6800. Obviously that's an extreme case, but worth noting.

It's getting more exciting, but now I'm pretty well stalled on planning until I figure out what size my bores will be. Or if I'll need a new block.

I've also got a paint scheme in mind. I wanna go ford engine blue on the block. Black on the VC, water pump, and lifter cover. Debating on bare or black for the intake. We have an awesome molten metallic enamel at work that would be awesome on the covers, but it only goes to 250, so i couldnt use it on the manifold. It looks kind of like the vein powdercoats you see around. My 351 was red and black like yours, so that's two reasons to not go red!



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #52 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-21-2018, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Haha no news from the machine shop yet, so no real news from me yet. He should be calling in a week or two about the condition of my block.

I did just get off the phone with JetHot, and will be sending the headers off to Oklahoma to get their off-road coating here soon. Exhaust takes a beating here with our acidic mud and the salt they treat roads with.

I've also been working on a pcv oil catch can for pepe, that Im going to duplicate for myself.
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309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #53 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-23-2018, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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No news on the block, but I did just order my camshaft and lifters from Schneider Racing Cams.

Cam specs

Part Number: 13912
Grind Number: 140H
Intake Duration (gross): 280
Exhaust Duration (gross): 280
Intake Duration (.050): 222
Exhaust Duration (.050): 222
Intake Valve Lift*: .480"
Exhaust Valve Lift*: .480"
Lobe Separation: 110
Intake Valve Lash: .000"
Exhaust Valve Lash: .000"
RPM Range:
2400-6000

They will warranty the cam if I use their lifters and their break-in lube, followed by using their zddp additive after the rings seat. So I got all the lubes I needed as well.

Per advice from fordsix, I did not opt for the Hi-lube option on the lifters, as it seemed unnecessary for the 300.

$190 for the cam and $75 for the lifters.



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #54 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-23-2018, 12:39 PM
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Did you order a tee shirt right a way.
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post #55 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-24-2018, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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Funny you mention port injection... The Clifford intake I have has bosses cast in each runner for an injector. I've been staring at them, knowing it'll cost more than I want to spend, but it would be cool.



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #56 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob822 View Post
Just ask for Jacob, I'll make sure we get you exactly what you need.
Ahh I see your "master plan" haha! That's cool, i appreciate the offer, as I would have gone with trend, because I've seen their name thrown around a couple forums. I'd rather give a fellow bronco brother some business.

I'll give you a call when I'm ready. That'll be about the last piece I need, since I'm changing OAL, and have to measure.

On average, what's your lead time on a set?

Edit: I see it's only one day usually. Very cool



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.

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post #57 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-27-2018, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Well, the first thing I'll tell you is since your company has pushrods in the name, I'd assume y'all are specialists and that is where the best parts come from.



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #58 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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You may remember me saying I scored some emblems off that 74 econoline. The chrome was pitted, so I decided to paint them. This will be the exact paint I'm gonna use on my valve cover, side cover and air cleaner. It's Benjamin Moore molten metallic oil base. Gunsmoke is the color. It is a non-tarnishing true metallic. Rated to 250 continuous.



I'm thinking these will go on the tailgate.



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #59 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-28-2018, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbandonedBronco View Post
Very cool! Looking forward to seeing them put on.
Hopefully.... they'll never have to be put to the test at 250.
Haha, no but the engine parts will get near that hot



309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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post #60 of 489 (permalink) Old 03-29-2018, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Getting the headers packaged up to go off to Jet-Hot down in OKC to get their off-road 2000 coating put on. Color will be cast iron gray.

Look at these poor things.




309ci inline 6, 9.75:1 CR, Big Valves, ROLLER ROCKERS, Clifford intake and headers, Schneider 140H cam, DUI HEI ignition, 450 QFT 4bbl carb, Saginaw swap, FlowKooler water pump, Steel timing gears, 2.5in y-pipe into a single 3in cat and borla muffler.
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