my 4-bolt steering box swap... yes, you can reuse your existing hoses. - Page 3 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 07:08 AM
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Just remember that the AN flare angle is different than the SAE/ISO flare. Your typical off the shelf flare tool will not work.
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post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 08:05 AM
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Morning all! So I pulled the 97 F350 hose off the truck this morning thinking that I would just cut the steering gear end off of it, flare the metal tube, and put and use a union to connect the top half Bronco hose to the bottom have F hose.

However, when I pulled it out of the gear, low and behold it had an inverted flare fitting on it! And it wasn't leaking! What?!


Let's back up, when I went into Orielly's yesterday or whenever, I had the pull out another F250 steering gear and an F350 hose. The gear had the o-ring fitting and so did the hose.


When I put the gear and hose in the Bronco, I didn't check ends etc, I just screwed them in. The top one leaked and after closer inspection I could see that the end was different than what was in the Bronco.

I just assumed that the lower one that I had put in was like the lower one that I looked at when I was in Orielly's. Well it's not.


So I went to the Orielly website this morning and searched for F250 super duty hoses. They list them with both the inverted flare and the o-ring flare. Which means that some gears must come with an o-ring fitting and some must come with a flare fitting. I also saw over the past few days reference to pre august 1997 and post August 10 1997 steering gear. I'm thinking now that perhaps that was the date of the switch between o-ring and inveted flare at the gear? It would seam that I have an inverted flare 4 bolt Saginaw gear. If that is the case, then a stock Bronco hose bolts right up which is what mine apparently has done. I'm going to do some more research and post up findings. Cheers!
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post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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please post up any findings.

sorry for taking so long to get back to this thread, ive been busy. here's my 2 cents. this is based on memory, so please correct me if i'm wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggum View Post
I installed a 4 bolt from an 97 F250 today. Went well. Working on my high pressure hose now.
1. you said you got the 4-bolt box out of a 97 f250. since the 97 f250 is still OBS, i thought they only came with the 2-bolt. that would be really cool if you found a direct bolt in 4-bolt.

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Originally Posted by biggum View Post
So I found these on Summit. I believe the 4 bolt gear is 18mm. This will get me to 11/16 inverted flare. Then I just need to get from 11/16 down to the 5/16 on the stock Bronco line. Any ideas on the best way to do that? Looking for a bushing etc to step down.
2. both the 2-bolt and the 4-bolt use 5/16" threads on the pressure side, 3/8" threads on the return side. the only difference is the inverted flare vs o-ring. not sure where you're getting the 18mm from. maybe, is that the size of the fitting that is on the back of a saginaw pump? not the fitting on the pressure hose but the little adapter that screws into the back of the pump, then the pressure hose screws into it.

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Originally Posted by biggum View Post
Has anyone tried cutting off the flare end of the stock hose and having a crimp end put on at a shop?
3. i have heard of people getting custom hoses made that will fit a saginaw pump on one end and the 4-bolt box on the other end. usually what they do is to take a hose that fits the saginaw and another hose that fits the box to a custom hydraulic hose maker. the hose maker uses half of one hose and half of the other hose to make it work.

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Originally Posted by biggum View Post
Morning all! So I pulled the 97 F350 hose off the truck this morning thinking that I would just cut the steering gear end off of it, flare the metal tube, and put and use a union to connect the top half Bronco hose to the bottom have F hose.
4. @Kingfish999 9 had suggested doing just that, not sure if anyone has tried it yet or not.



hope this answers your questions and again, let us know what you find.

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post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter109 View Post
please post up any findings.



sorry for taking so long to get back to this thread, ive been busy. here's my 2 cents. this is based on memory, so please correct me if i'm wrong.







1. you said you got the 4-bolt box out of a 97 f250. since the 97 f250 is still OBS, i thought they only came with the 2-bolt. that would be really cool if you found a direct bolt in 4-bolt.

YES - 4 bolt from 97 250HD







2. both the 2-bolt and the 4-bolt use 5/16" threads on the pressure side, 3/8" threads on the return side. the only difference is the inverted flare vs o-ring. not sure where you're getting the 18mm from. maybe, is that the size of the fitting that is on the back of a saginaw pump? not the fitting on the pressure hose but the little adapter that screws into the back of the pump, then the pressure hose screws into it.

YES - you are correct on sizes, I was wrong







3. i have heard of people getting custom hoses made that will fit a saginaw pump on one end and the 4-bolt box on the other end. usually what they do is to take a hose that fits the saginaw and another hose that fits the box to a custom hydraulic hose maker. the hose maker uses half of one hose and half of the other hose to make it work.







4. @Kingfish999 9 had suggested doing just that, not sure if anyone has tried it yet or not.

THAT IS WHAT I WAS GOING TO TRY UNTIL I TOOK THE 97 F350 HOSE OFF AND FOUND THAT THE GEAR SIDE WAS INVERTED FLARE AND NOT LEAKING AND NO SLOP IN THE TUBE ATTACHMENT TO GEAR BOX.

SO I TRIED THE 88 BRONCO HOSE WITH THE 97 F250 GEAR BOX AND IT DOES NOT LEAK.

97 F250HD 4 Bolt - Master Pro 501-0118
88 Bronco Pressure Hose - Precision 13401261

I did not install the o-rings that come with the gear box in the gear box. Seems to be working fine with no leaks.




hope this answers your questions and again, let us know what you find.





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post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 09:56 AM
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@sharpshooter109

did you ever find a need to switch pitman arms from the van to the factory bronco arm?
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post #46 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 10:12 PM
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My Redhead is getting bad. I guess I need to look into this.
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post #47 of 53 (permalink) Old 03-18-2019, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_cam View Post
@sharpshooter109

did you ever find a need to switch pitman arms from the van to the factory bronco arm?
as of now, i haven't noticed any problems using the van pitman arm. I've had my bronco out on a few mild trails as well as some local city type driving and some highway driving. i have no complaints so far.

now granted, i havent done a TON of driving with the e-van pitman arm, maybe 5k miles, but i did daily drive the bronco for 2-3 months.
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post #48 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 06:01 PM
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I found a video of the swap of Saginaw PS pump from the E100 van to the F150 (1994)truck running an EFI 5.0L
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post #49 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reptillikus View Post
So swapping to the newer 4-bolt box seems like a pain since you have to make a special hose or buy that adapter. So whats the benefit over, say, just running a Redhead box?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter109 View Post
the only advantage i know of is that the 4-bolt box is a better design that is less likely to wear out with lots of use vs the redhead's 2-bolt. sure, they come from redhead without any slop but eventually they will wear out the same as an original motorcraft box. this is mainly a concern if you drive your bronco a lot. also, the 4-bolt box can be cheaper. i got mine out of a junkyard, but you could just as easily buy a parts house reman 4-bolt box for much cheaper than a redhead 2-bolt box.

now, im not saying that the 4-bolt box will never develop slop. im just saying that for me, it was worth it to swap to a $30 junkyard 4-bolt box rather than saving up for several months and missing several months of wheeling to get a redhead box. i still have some steering slop, but i think it is due to the steering shaft. at any rate, the 4-bolt box cut the slop about in half, and it is now manageable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CainsBigRed View Post
Wow I'm very late to the party HAHAHA so far all I have to say about the 4 bolt is that IT WORKS as ShaprShooter mention the slop is cut drastically, I did end up getting the gear box with the wrong spilne count but on ebay I bought a new drop pitman for the same year excusion and it bolted up to the super runner steering no problem. it would of been a $120 upgraded with all parts for me but since I did have to buy a drop pitman that took me $70 more than expected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigo93bronco View Post
Thanks sharpshooter I was hoping you would chime in. The main reason I'm not wanting to mess with the cooler right now is that I'm planning on getting a 4 bolt read head box. Probably overkill but I've wasted so much money on cheap steering parts on this truck that I'm not going to take any chances this time. Short of a SAS I want the very best steering parts money can buy this time around.
I've read this thread several times. Correct me if I'm wrong. The four bolt is a stronger gearbox. "Redhead" is just a good rebuilder. (No matter which box you get) So comparing a four bolt to a redhead two bolt is not really a proper comparison. I'm assuming Redhead rebuilds the four bolt also?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fodder View Post
I'm a bit biased, and maybe it's a sample size thing, but I feel like I've seen more reports of red head box problems than for OEM 4-bolt boxes.
I can't say I've ever heard of trouble from Redheads, except for mine. LOL. Mine needed a sector shaft adjustment when I got it. Just recently I've had to adjust it a couple more times. I'm not really complaining because there were many years between my first adjustment and the recent ones. But now I have slop that can't be adjusted out. (Unless I want to lose "return to center")

I'm running 38" tires and I would like the strongest box I can get. I don't care about cost so much, but I don't have time to do a lot of fab work. (Got tons of other stuff to work on) So I wonder if you guys could summerize this thread because I'm confused.

First, is there a big issue mounting the four bolt? Are the holes there? Do I just drill two more holes?

Second, I saw there are 32 and 36 spline counts. I realize the 36 is a better connection, but is the rest the same? (I'm not worried about the Pittman connection)

Third, I have the stock pump and don't really care to change it. There is a quote above that I can't find the original. (Maybe it was altered) Anyways, it give two part numbers for box and pressure hose. If they are "bolt in", I think I can work out the return. (Since it's not a lot of pressure) Do I got this right?
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post #50 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 07:57 PM
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Get the proper van hose for the 4 bolt and it will collect to the factory pump.

Buy a return hose for the 4 bolt, cut and flare it, then run rubber hose to the bronco return line.
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post #51 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helirich View Post
First, is there a big issue mounting the four bolt? Are the holes there? Do I just drill two more holes?
2- and 4-bolt refers to the cover on top of the box, not how it mounts. The 4-bolt box mounts up just the same, nothing to modify there.
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post #52 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helirich View Post
I'm running 38" tires and I would like the strongest box I can get. I don't care about cost so much, but I don't have time to do a lot of fab work. (Got tons of other stuff to work on) So I wonder if you guys could summerize this thread because I'm confused.

First, is there a big issue mounting the four bolt? Are the holes there? Do I just drill two more holes?
i second what @fodder said, the 4-bold will just bolt in place of the 2-bolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by helirich View Post
Second, I saw there are 32 and 36 spline counts. I realize the 36 is a better connection, but is the rest the same? (I'm not worried about the Pittman connection)
@Kingfish999 has a 36 spline in his 88 mud truck. not sure about any differences between the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helirich View Post
Third, I have the stock pump and don't really care to change it. There is a quote above that I can't find the original. (Maybe it was altered) Anyways, it give two part numbers for box and pressure hose. If they are "bolt in", I think I can work out the return. (Since it's not a lot of pressure) Do I got this right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_cam View Post
Get the proper van hose for the 4 bolt and it will collect to the factory pump.

Buy a return hose for the 4 bolt, cut and flare it, then run rubber hose to the bronco return line.
here is one part number from o'reillys. this is from an 01 excursion: https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum...ml#post5669513

here is a link to one of my posts with lots of detail: https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum...ml#post6470762

in that thread i mentioned hose: GATES 352850

you could also do like @dash_cam and get AN adapters then use a standard AN hose.

or you could get a custom hose made at a hydraulic shop.
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post #53 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 04:50 PM
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the hose connections in the 32 and 36 boxes are the same. all i did in the 88 was use the Lees seal inserts like i would also use for the 32 boxes. since i needed a drop pitman arm, i jsut found a drop pitman arm for a 36 spline box. cost was about the same.

i emailed Redhead about strength differences between 32 and 36 spline boxes because their 36 spline boxes cost quite abit more than the 32. the 36 cost $356+ 200$ core while the 32 is only $296 + $125 core.

36 spline
32 spline

Quote:
i have an an offroad only truck currently using a junkyard 36 spline Ford SuperDuty box and its showing signs of it starting to leak. it is pushing 37" tires and drop pitman arm and sees harsh abuse. i have a 32 spline pitman arm i can use if i wanted to move to a 32 spline. would it be worth the additional cost to stay 36 spline or is there no real gain from it? i see it does cost more but id be willing to pay it if it means it would be somewhat more durable. not sure when ill get around to it but i defiantly at some point plan on getting a Redhead
they emailed me back simply

Quote:
In my mind the 36 spline is worth the extra.
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