Questions on Replacing Entire A/C System. - Page 2 - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #21 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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I'm trying to follow.

My new drier/accumulator didn't come with any instructions at all.
I have a pre-oiled compressor.

How do I know how much to pour in the accumulator?



On a second question.
The fit on the condensor I bought is terrible. It's 95% close, but that 5% keeps it from actually going into the vehicle.
Unfortunately, everywhere I've looked, everyone sells the same one (just rebranding it), and they all have low rating due to not fitting. A few say they got them to fit by taking a saw to their radiator support, which I'm not about to do. It's frustrating.
However, my original seems to be in good shape. Just bent up fins (which unlike a radiator, don't cause leaks since they're just heat dissipation). I'm planning on reusing it instead and returning the one I bought.

Is there something I should do first to clean it?


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post #22 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 03:55 PM
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Well if it a stock system then the charge is stated by the manufacturers spec. In that case go by the year and model. If it was originally r-12 then a metering device change will be required along with oil change. Charge is higher for 134A so expect a higher head pressure for the same 42 degree evaporator temp so as more refrigerant is added more oil will be needed. Most systems are about two bottles PAG to 2.5 pounds of refrigerant but stock spec. gives you a base line of required charge.
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post #23 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info.
This is the first time I've messed with air conditioning.

I found this chart online:



So, for a 1.5kg R12 system, it requires 1.1kg of R134a.

However, I'm still coming up short on the oil amount.

This is one of the few tech documents I've found:

Ford Light Truck Refrigerant and oil capacity charts || TechChoice Parts

It says for the R12 years, they used 7 oz. However once they go to R134a, it's all over the place depending on the year. 7oz, 8oz, 11oz.
Some forum posts here are all saying 7oz.


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post #24 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 05:02 PM
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Let me take a look.
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post #25 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 05:07 PM
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post #26 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 445 FE Bronco View Post
That's the one I linked above that I had a question about.
The R12 trucks all have the same oil level, but each year of R134a are completely different.
Since I'll be going with 134a, that leaves me scratching my head.


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post #27 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 08:55 PM
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Yup 134A spec. is what you use, pour a little oil in the compressor when you install it on the big return line and pour the rest in the receiver. Pull a vacuum to 28 inches for about a half hour, lock down your gauges to check for leaks. If it holds for 20 minutes your good, charge your high side first then start the vehicle. Charge liquid on the high side and vapor on the low. Do not charge fast on the low side you will slug the compressor destroying it, just crack the low side gauge. You should see a temperature rise of about 25-30 degrees on the condenser from ambient temp. Evaporator should be somewhere around 40 degrees. Rpm is realavent so when changing I keep the rpm at a consistent 2000 rpm while charging and testing. You will need to jump out your low pressure switch to keep the compressor on while charging, when done it should stay closed and not cycle off.

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post #28 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 09:11 PM
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According to our good friend mr Miesk, the refrigerant oil specifications are as follows.

When replacing other components of the air conditioning system, measured quantities of the specified refrigerant oil should be added to the component to ensure that the total oil charge in the system is correct before the system is operated.

Clean refrigerant oil should be poured directly into the replacement components as follows:

A/C evaporator core (19860): add 90 ml (3 oz.).
A/C condenser core (19712): add 30 ml (1 oz.).
Suction accumulator/drier: drain oil from removed accumulator/drier. Add same amount plus 60 ml (2 oz.) of clean refrigerant oil to new suction accumulator/drier.
If any other component such as an A/C evaporator core orifice or a hose is replaced, an additional 59 ml (2 oz.) refrigerant oil is necessary unless a hose bursts with a fully charged system. Then, the addition of refrigerant oil may be necessary with the amount to be determined by the technician. The suction accumulator/drier should also be replaced under these circumstances. Add an additional 59 ml (2 oz.) refrigerant oil to a system with a refrigerant leak.

My full thread on my AC repair can be found here.
https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum...c-rebuild.html


And for a system where every component is replaced, what I learned is to take your new compressor, get a measuring cup, then mount the compressor so that the ports pour into the measuring cup. I let mine drain for several hours just to make sure the vast majority of the oil was out. You will need to periodically need to rotate the compressor pulley to get the oil out of the rotary vanes. 3 or 4 turns every few minutes should do it. My compressor came with a tag on it saying it contained all the oil for the system. The total oil should be 7 ounces for a stock 94-96 R134a System. Other years I have no idea. Ususally I tell owners of 92-93 broncos to go with the complete system for a 94-96 and it should all be great. Other years I have no clue.


I got a full kit for the compressor, came with all these items.



Once its all out you should have something over 5 to 7 ounces of oil.






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post #29 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 09:20 PM
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What he said
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post #30 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for writing all of that up jowens.
I'll go with 7oz.

My biggest concern right now is reusing the original condensor.
I bought a new one, but it simply wouldn't fit. I looked around at all the other sites, and no matter the brand, they looked exactly the same. So, I imagine one company makes all of them, and everyone just puts their name on it. However, even thought it's 95% close, the last 5% keeps it from going into the truck. It's just not going to happen without taking a saw to my radiator core support. Every review of 80 - 86 condensors are about 1/5 stars, with most reviews saying it doesn't fit. Disappointing. Redesign the darn thing.

I have no reason to believe there's anything wrong with the original condensor, I just wanted everything to be new.
However, the original had R12 in it. The whole system was bone dry when I removed it, so I don't know how much, if any, flushing of the condensor needs to take place.

Any thoughts or ideas?


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post #31 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 08:21 PM
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One thing I remember you might consider, A previous member Steve87 (something like that) had a thread about AC. In it he mentioned there are two kinds of condensers. I can't remember exactly, but something like crossflow and straight flow. He said one kind is much better. Might be worth some research.
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you can pressure test your old one and solder it up just like a radiator.
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post #33 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 10:37 PM
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You should straighten the bent fins as much as you can. They make nylon comb for that, but careful use of a pocket knife and/or very thin screwdriver will work. Pour alcohol in it with a funnel and blow it out with compressed air to flush, then warm it up in the sun to dry out.
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post #34 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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Alright. The fins are straightened, the condenser is flushed and cleaned, o-rings replaced, and the whole system is installed.

Right now, though, I'm having a nightmare of a time. I have the vacuum pump rented, as well as the A/C pressure testing system, and none of the attachments to hook anything to anything is working.
The pump didn't come with a hose, and I can't seem to track one down, and pressure testing system does not connect to the ports on the Bronco.

Secondly, I connected a vacuum gauge to the pump, and it only seems to be able to pull 25 hg. I've read this system needs to be tested at at least 30.

Anyone have any tips? This is getting old. I've been out driving around 3 times today, and every time come back with something that doesn't want to connect to anything.


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post #35 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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So, looks like the A/C pressure test kit is for a quick connect system, but the '85 Bronco uses Schrader valves.
Do I need some adapters? Or am I using the wrong test kit?

This is where I'm stuck:



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post #36 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, found what I'm looking for:

https://www.amazon.com/R134a-Adapter.../dp/B0736K1PWB
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post #37 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 02:39 AM
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Again, my memories are from over 30 years ago, & were on commercial restaurant equipment, not vehicles.

We used a regular manifold gauge set with 3 hoses. All 3 hoses fit schrader valves. You'd connect the red hose to the high side, blue to the low, & the center yellow to the vacuum pump. If the unit had valves you'd open both sides. You'd open both manifold valves so all 3 hoses were connected together, & run the vacuum pump overnight. Then you'd check the vacuum. If it was good you'd close both manifold valves, turn off the pump, then see if vacuum continued to hold. You'd disconnect the center hose from the pump & connect it to the refrigerant. Then open the refrigerant tank to fill the center hose while loosening that hose at the manifold to purge air from the hose. Once the hose was purged the hose was tightened.

At this point there should be vacuum on both high & low sides, & the center should be full of refrigerant. The next step would be to open the low side manifold valve to allow refrigerant to flow into the low side of the system. Tank right side up flowed refrigerant gas & upside down flowed liquid. You'd have to be careful to not open the valve too much & have liquid sieze the compressor if you ran the tank upside down, but on a very large system it would fill faster. Then turn the unit on so the compressor would pump from the low side to the high while you continued to add refrigerant. Depending on the system the refrigerant would be weighed in with the tank sitting on a scale, a sight glass watched until full with no bubbles, or by watching pressures on the gauges & knowing where that system should run at a given ambient temp.

Now this is an old method from back in the dark ages, back when letting a tiny amount of refrigerant into the air during the hose purging & disconnecting was SOP. I don't know how they deal with that today. We would turn off the high side unit valve & refrigerant tank valve, then open both manifold valves to allow the compressor to take down pressures in the lines before shutting off the low side unit valve & disconnecting hoses. I would suppose they use a 4th hose today to recover refrigerant from the hoses before disconnecting, but don't really know.

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post #38 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you El Kabong, that's extremely helpful, and helps confirm a lot of what I've read elsewhere.

Right now I'm running into an issue of the gauge set I rented not holding a vacuum (even when not connected to the system). Doesn't do much good to test the system, when the testing equipment doesn't work right.

However, I have a big, glaring question.

I carefully measured the PAG 46 oil and put it in when I installed the system.
But the vacuum pump is pulling it out! All of the hoses and connections are covered and filled with oil.

I've never heard of this.

Now what in the world do I do? I now have no idea how much is in the system, I have no idea how much has been pulled out, and have no idea how to add the proper amount back once the system achieves vacuum.
Ideas??


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post #39 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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Well, frustratingly, I'm going to call it quits and take it to a shop.
SO MUCH OIL came out with the vacuum pump that I had to drain the hoses on the gauge set. I imagine it's down a few ounces but I have no idea how much.
I just don't have the equipment to flush the whole system so I can start over.

I don't imagine it'll cost too much as there shouldn't be any repairs that need to be done. Just cleaning it out and filling it.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
Again, my memories are from over 30 years ago, & were on commercial restaurant equipment, not vehicles.

We used a regular manifold gauge set with 3 hoses. All 3 hoses fit schrader valves. You'd connect the red hose to the high side, blue to the low, & the center yellow to the vacuum pump. If the unit had valves you'd open both sides. You'd open both manifold valves so all 3 hoses were connected together, & run the vacuum pump overnight. Then you'd check the vacuum. If it was good you'd close both manifold valves, turn off the pump, then see if vacuum continued to hold. You'd disconnect the center hose from the pump & connect it to the refrigerant. Then open the refrigerant tank to fill the center hose while loosening that hose at the manifold to purge air from the hose. Once the hose was purged the hose was tightened.

At this point there should be vacuum on both high & low sides, & the center should be full of refrigerant. The next step would be to open the low side manifold valve to allow refrigerant to flow into the low side of the system. Tank right side up flowed refrigerant gas & upside down flowed liquid. You'd have to be careful to not open the valve too much & have liquid sieze the compressor if you ran the tank upside down, but on a very large system it would fill faster. Then turn the unit on so the compressor would pump from the low side to the high while you continued to add refrigerant. Depending on the system the refrigerant would be weighed in with the tank sitting on a scale, a sight glass watched until full with no bubbles, or by watching pressures on the gauges & knowing where that system should run at a given ambient temp.

Now this is an old method from back in the dark ages, back when letting a tiny amount of refrigerant into the air during the hose purging & disconnecting was SOP. I don't know how they deal with that today. We would turn off the high side unit valve & refrigerant tank valve, then open both manifold valves to allow the compressor to take down pressures in the lines before shutting off the low side unit valve & disconnecting hoses. I would suppose they use a 4th hose today to recover refrigerant from the hoses before disconnecting, but don't really know.
That's pretty much what you do. Although you should pressure check with nitro before all that. I've never seen a sight glass on autos. So you can't fill by that. There is no 4th hose. The EPA allows some venting to the atmosphere for purging lines and such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbandonedBronco View Post
Thank you El Kabong, that's extremely helpful, and helps confirm a lot of what I've read elsewhere.

Right now I'm running into an issue of the gauge set I rented not holding a vacuum (even when not connected to the system). Doesn't do much good to test the system, when the testing equipment doesn't work right.

However, I have a big, glaring question.

I carefully measured the PAG 46 oil and put it in when I installed the system.
But the vacuum pump is pulling it out! All of the hoses and connections are covered and filled with oil.

I've never heard of this.

Now what in the world do I do? I now have no idea how much is in the system, I have no idea how much has been pulled out, and have no idea how to add the proper amount back once the system achieves vacuum.
Ideas??
The vacuum pump should not suck the oil out unless it has choked off a line completely. (Oil doesn't evaporate like water in vacuum) That said, you shouldn't put the oil in untill after you pulled a vacuum. (You can use the vacuum to suck it in. I've installed a compressor that came with the oil already in it. (Walk-in freezer) It didn't suck out under vacuum. Is there any possibility that yours came with oil and you put more in?
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