Questions on Replacing Entire A/C System. - Ford Bronco Forum
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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Questions on Replacing Entire A/C System.

Hi all,

I'm replacing the entire FACTORY installed A/C system in my '85 Bronco.

Originally, the Bronco had a 302, but now has a 300, so I acquired all of the proper brackets to mount the compressor.
So, the entire system is currently installed on my new engine and in the truck.

I'll be getting 300 hoses so that things reach properly, due to the compressor being further forward on the 300 than in the 302.
I have the proper brackets from the junk yard and the entire original A/C system is currently installed.

However, almost nothing on the A/C system is any good. The condensor has dings and dents in it, and broken fins. The hoses have holes in them. The compressor is probably shot. Etc. etc. There's no belt on the compressor, and the entire system is dry.
So, I'm just going to replace the entire system front to back.

Here's my shopping list:

Compressor
Orifice Tube
Drier / Accumulator
Condensor
Evaporator Core
Blower Motor
Liquid Line Hose
Suction Line Hose
Discharge Line Hose


The rest, as far as I can tell, is electronics. Is there anything that I'm missing?
What are the gotchas?

Also, what should I know about R12 vs. R134? Can I just use whichever is better?
Lastly, is there ANYTHING in this project that I should have a shop do? Or can I just put it all together, fill it with refrigerant, and off I go with frosty, cold air?


Never had A/C in my Bronco before, so this is going to be a new one.


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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 04:10 PM
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you'll be using r134. i'm not sure about what parts you'll need to buy to fit an entire system. but when you install the compressor, make sure you add the proper amount of oil. it will probably come with some, but then you'll have to find out how much more to add. i suggest also adding a leak detecting dye...just in case it ever starts to leak.

but once you have it all buttoned up, it's a piece of cake to charge.

buy a vacuum pump and manifold gauge set. that's all you'll need to charge it once installed. i've done multiple vehicles using a HF manifold and then an amazon or ebay special for the vacuum pump.

pull the vacuum. use the gauges to monitor that it's holding the vacuum for an hour or so. then charge.
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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Awesome, great advice!

That's a fantastic idea on checking to see if it holds vacuum. I'll be sure to do that. Looks like O'Really rents both a A/C manifold gauge set, and an electric vacuum pump.

Just ordered all the parts. Full A/C replacement for just about $500. Not too bad.
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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbandonedBronco View Post
Hi all,

I'm replacing the entire FACTORY installed A/C system in my '85 Bronco.

Originally, the Bronco had a 302, but now has a 300, so I acquired all of the proper brackets to mount the compressor.
So, the entire system is currently installed on my new engine and in the truck.

I'll be getting 300 hoses so that things reach properly, due to the compressor being further forward on the 300 than in the 302.
I have the proper brackets from the junk yard and the entire original A/C system is currently installed.

However, almost nothing on the A/C system is any good. The condensor has dings and dents in it, and broken fins. The hoses have holes in them. The compressor is probably shot. Etc. etc. There's no belt on the compressor, and the entire system is dry.
So, I'm just going to replace the entire system front to back.

Here's my shopping list:

Compressor
Orifice Tube
Drier / Accumulator
Condensor
Evaporator Core
Blower Motor
Liquid Line Hose
Suction Line Hose
Discharge Line Hose


The rest, as far as I can tell, is electronics. Is there anything that I'm missing?
What are the gotchas?

Also, what should I know about R12 vs. R134? Can I just use whichever is better?
Lastly, is there ANYTHING in this project that I should have a shop do? Or can I just put it all together, fill it with refrigerant, and off I go with frosty, cold air?


Never had A/C in my Bronco before, so this is going to be a new one.
There should be two switches you need for the system also, a high pressure switch and a low pressure switch.

On my 95 the high pressure switch is right behind the compressor and the low pressure switch is in the drier. I replaced the low pressure switch when I did a complete rebuild on my system, but I did not replace the high side switch and boy do I regret it. My system would shut off because of a bad connection in that switch and if I wiggled it, the system would come back on. Now I need to drain the system to get the high pressure switch out and replace and then recharge.

Dont make the same mistake I did....


.
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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the heads up klh95!
I'd much rather replace those now.

Looks like the '85 - '93 only has a single pressure switch, which is about $35 (for Motorcraft)

https://www.amazon.com/Motorcraft-A-.../dp/B004RH8QIA

I'll definitely be tossing that into the list. Much appreciated.


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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 09:55 PM
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If you haven't already ordered the parts I'd strongly suggest price comparing with Rock Auto. When I redid my AC system about two years ago, I put everything I needed in the Rock Auto cart and then compared to online O'Reilly and AutoZone. The parts would be of the same make and very close part number. The parts houses maybe would add a letter or such. Anyway, Rock Auto was considerably cheaper.

I did all of mine and didn't have too much trouble at all. I did take it to a shop to pull the vacuum and charge. But, it is still cooling now. :)

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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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That's what I did. I had Amazon, RockAuto, O'Reilly, and AutoZone up on my computer and price compared between all of them.
In the end, about 40% of it was from RockAuto and 60% from Amazon.

It helped get a great price!
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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbandonedBronco View Post
Awesome, great advice!

That's a fantastic idea on checking to see if it holds vacuum
. I'll be sure to do that. Looks like O'Really rents both a A/C manifold gauge set, and an electric vacuum pump.

Just ordered all the parts. Full A/C replacement for just about $500. Not too bad.
It's not only about testing to see if it holds, but putting the system under vacuum removes moisture. A tiny amount of moisture from plain air can be disastrous inside of an a/c system. It will freeze & block the flow of refrigerant. Running the vacuum pump for a period of time removes that moisture prior to charging the system.
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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbandonedBronco View Post
Awesome, great advice!

That's a fantastic idea on checking to see if it holds vacuum. I'll be sure to do that. Looks like O'Really rents both a A/C manifold gauge set, and an electric vacuum pump.
As I mentioned in a recent thread, you're better off using pressure to check for leaks. The maximum vacuum pressure differential is around 15 psi. I would check with 100 psi at least. Use some glass cleaner at all the joints. (Bubbles) If possible, use nitrogen or argon because it is dry and helps "sweep" the moisture from the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
It's not only about testing to see if it holds, but putting the system under vacuum removes moisture. A tiny amount of moisture from plain air can be disastrous inside of an a/c system. It will freeze & block the flow of refrigerant. Running the vacuum pump for a period of time removes that moisture prior to charging the system.
Vacuum is good for removing moisture, but you should leave the vacuum on over night at least.
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Originally Posted by helirich View Post
Vacuum is good for removing moisture, but you should leave the vacuum on over night at least.
you're talking about having the vacuum pump hooked up overnight? you can hear the pitch in the vacuum pump change when it's sucked all it's gonna suck. i've never needed that long at all. i haven't done a ton of them, though. just a few.
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Originally Posted by dash_cam View Post
you're talking about having the vacuum pump hooked up overnight? you can hear the pitch in the vacuum pump change when it's sucked all it's gonna suck. i've never needed that long at all. i haven't done a ton of them, though. just a few.
When you pull the vacuum, the moisture evaporates to a vapor. But that doesn't happen immediately. And after it does, it needs to migrate back to the pump to get pulled out. It is ok to leave the pump running all night. If you don't want to do that, just shut the valve to the pump and turn it off, but leave it hooked up. Later, turn it back on and open the valve.

What we do with refridgeration equipment is pull a vacuum and then introduce nitrogen from the far side so it sweeps the moisture to the pump. Then we vacuum it again. Sometimes we do this three times. I don't know if any auto techs use micron gauges, but with one you can actually tell moisture is evaporating. The standard AC gauges arnt really any good for vacuum. I'm not saying you can't be successful doing it your way. The drier should grab the finel bits of moisture.

I will say I that I haven't done a lot of auto stuff, but the principles are the same as a walkin freezer. We get pretty anal when the compressor costs a grand and there's a possibility of losing a lot more in food.
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post #12 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 01:00 AM
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Yeah, my experience is with refrigeration from 30 years ago. Walk in coolers, ice makers, etc. We always left the vacuum pump running overnight, but I don't know if they're any faster today. The same way water boils at a lower temp at high altitude, it does so under vacuum. If you can get the vacuum high enough it will "boil" at room temp. And turn any moisture to vapor to be removed by the pump.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
Yeah, my experience is with refrigeration from 30 years ago. Walk in coolers, ice makers, etc. We always left the vacuum pump running overnight, but I don't know if they're any faster today. The same way water boils at a lower temp at high altitude, it does so under vacuum. If you can get the vacuum high enough it will "boil" at room temp. And turn any moisture to vapor to be removed by the pump.
Did they have micron guages then? I only got into refrigeration about 4 years ago to work on my wife's restaurant stuff. I just used an AC gauge set and burned up our compressor in six months. (It was used, so maybe not my fault) I read about the micron gauges and got one. Once you use one, you realize the AC gauge set is really only for the pressure side. I had an old Robinair vacuum pump. Once I hooked up the micron gauge, I realized it didn't work. (Still showed full vacuum on the AC set)

The micron gauge is so accurate, you can pull the vacuum down to 500 microns and shut the system. If you wait over night, it comes up to 15,000 microns. Then I sweep it with nitro or just turn the pump on again. Pull it down to 500 again and shut it. The next day it will be 2500 microns. I do this over and over till it won't go past a 1000 microns. (Some guys say 700) My point is you won't see any of this with a standard AC gauge set. (It will read full vacuum the entire time)

It was explained to me that when you get it down to 500 microns and the water boils, it takes up more space as a vapor, so the gauge goes up. Of course, the vapor is still in there. So if you don't turn the pump on again, it just condenses back to water when you put the freon in.

The issue with water is not only freezing, it turns to an acid in the system and can ruin your compressor. They say it takes anywhere from six months to 18 months to distroy it. I always wondered why it seems like a new car AC system works for years, but when you get them repaired, they don't last long. Could be poor practices by the auto tech. Of course the AC works great when you leave the shop. LOL.
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I haven't done any of that work in over 30 years. If micron guages were around I wasn't aware of them. I remember some of the basic stuff. Even then refrigeration wasn't my strong suit. This was back in the dark ages when letting the magic gas into the atmosphere was newly thought to be a concern. I know the gear used has changed in the years since. Especially in the area of refrigerant recovery.

We fixed all sorts of restaurant equipment & I was usually better at anything else. I understood the principals, but there always seemed to be some hocus pocus with refrigeration. I did ok with icers, but their problems were usually water flow, not refrigeration. I cannot tell you how many times a water distribution issue had some inlaw connect his guages & throw the small system out of balance. If you had to charge an icer it was by weight. Steamers, rotary & belt ovens, dough rollers, kettles, & plain old gas appliances were more down my alley. I always enjoyed calls for electrical shorts. There was usually a black spot showing the point of failure & the clients were frightened & eager to have you fix it.

I used to drag home dead icers & fix them up for friends & family. We had a big old Manitowoc for awhile. We made a lot homemade ice cream while we had that. This year I bought a small ancient used commercial Wolf range for the house because I missed the simple old design & was tired of troubles with newer home ovens.

I had a young family at the time & the hours required meant I was never home when they were awake. I left that job for something with regular hours so I could be a part of my family. 30 years later I'm still glad with the choice.
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post #15 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the info, guys. This is my first time dealing with ac/refrigerant, so I had no idea about the moisture. I know you all just saved me a lot of headache and frustration down the road.
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Ok, so all the parts are here and I'm going through the install.

Now, I'm scratching my head over something.
Everything I've read/watched/listened to, etc. says to get a compressor that comes pre-oiled so you don't have to screw with it.
So, I have a compressor that's pre-oiled. It's printed right on it that it's measured out at 6.1 oz of PAG oil.

However, the instructions say:

Pour out ALL of the oil and dispose of it properly.
Fill it half back up.
Charge the system, and then run it with the A/C on MAX and then put the other half of the oil in.


What's the point of getting a pre-oiled compressor if I'm supposed to just dump it all out?


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I've not seen that before. I've only seen it pre oiled but I had to add the extra to get to the correct amount. I don't know how you'd add oil after it's charged unless you drain it and start over
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post #18 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-07-2019, 03:19 PM
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Classic A/C has some nice combo boxes, I have done a few and there really nice.

BTW they have more capacity and are completely behind dash opening up the engine compartment.

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I've not seen that before. I've only seen it pre oiled but I had to add the extra to get to the correct amount. I don't know how you'd add oil after it's charged unless you drain it and start over
That's what I was thinking. It seemed like an odd thing.
I don't know how to find how much oil I need. All my sticker says is 1.5kg of R12, but nothing about the oil.
Do you know where this information would be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 445 FE Bronco View Post
Classic A/C has some nice combo boxes, I have done a few and there really nice.
I'm not sure what you're referring to. Are you meaning an aftermarket A/C?
I'm working with replacing the stock system that came on the Bronco.


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Pour the PAG oil in the accumulator, the oil amount is designed by the manufacturer. Usually the weight is by the pound of refrigerant.
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