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Thread: Orey Gets Stroked - Want2BS8ed's 1993 Bronco Build Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-13-2019 01:42 PM
TravisITGuy I wonder if a wide band o2 sensor would be worth installing to gather what is happening. maybe this would give you a heads up prior to an issue?? i dont know if it would help in that manner or not.

if this setup does infact work as predicted then some of us running the Eddy truck intake, cam and exhaust on our 5.8's could potentially run the slightly larger injectors to gain some giddy up.
09-12-2019 09:20 PM
Want2BS8ed
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctandc View Post
I'd try the other things suggested here....BUT if you have to replace / rebuild the trans, I've got an E4OD in my '93 Parts Bronco. I'll sell it to you cheap so you can have that built while still being able to drive yours.


Thanks @ctandc . Very generous. PM sent.


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09-12-2019 09:12 PM
Want2BS8ed
Quote:
Originally Posted by thequietman View Post
Running rich would be the first thing that comes to mind. I did the MAF conversion because the SD could not compensate for the 427. I know less about tuning an SD than I do a MAF (not much either way) However, I do know that the fuel curves in the SD were for #19's. Look at it this way, You have a computer telling the injectors to be open for milliseconds. If the SD computer thinks its getting all the correct signals it will send a corresponding signal to fire injectors. It will bank fire, meaning all four injectors will squirt at the same time. Here is a better explanation.



https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/...AirConversion/



Like I said, I am punching above my weight class on all this stuff but I did almost ruin my engine during initial startup due to having too much fuel. One of my "new" 36lb injectors was stuck open. The engine was so rich, it blew carbon out the exhaust and my eyes stung in my shop. All in about 30 sec. I run a mechanical fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail as well as an electronic on my console. It is next to my AFR gauge showing if I am rich or lean. Hope this helps on the 24's


Thanks for taking the time to reply @thequietman . Appreciate it.

Good article and that fits with what I understand; the SD is pretty simple - if this then do that. A simple table lookup of speed (RPM) vs density (from the MAP sensor). The MAF is; if this, this and this then do that. Multiple tables and much more sophisticated. Put another way the SD reacts to what's coming out of the engine, while MAF works with both what goes into and what's coming out of the engine.

Again, I am far from fully understanding this, but my pea size brain thought: At a certain rpm and a certain density, the PCM would call for x milliseconds of fuel to stay "on the curve". With the increased cylinder volume, larger heads and freer flowing exhaust now the air/fuel ratio would be lean, therefore more fuel (either through higher fuel pressure or larger injectors) is needed to balance everything out and pull the ratio back "on the curve" so to speak. Essentially the PCM is seeing what it wants in the outputs and is clueless that all the mods are there.

The builder kept telling me the magic sauce was in the cam. Nothing radical, but it ties everything together with the SD. A package so to speak.

The mods without going MAF definitely bucks conventional wisdom. My first concern was that it would even run, then you start hearing stories of the two extremes of fueling mistakes: rich washing down cylinders causing blow by or lean burning valves.

Time will tell, but touch wood there are no outward signs the engine is running rich (or lean for that matter). Motor idles beautifully, pulls hard and no knocking or pinging at WOT.
09-12-2019 12:26 PM
ctandc I'd try the other things suggested here....BUT if you have to replace / rebuild the trans, I've got an E4OD in my '93 Parts Bronco. I'll sell it to you cheap so you can have that built while still being able to drive yours.
09-12-2019 05:42 AM
thequietman Running rich would be the first thing that comes to mind. I did the MAF conversion because the SD could not compensate for the 427. I know less about tuning an SD than I do a MAF (not much either way) However, I do know that the fuel curves in the SD were for #19's. Look at it this way, You have a computer telling the injectors to be open for milliseconds. If the SD computer thinks its getting all the correct signals it will send a corresponding signal to fire injectors. It will bank fire, meaning all four injectors will squirt at the same time. Here is a better explanation.

https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/...AirConversion/

Like I said, I am punching above my weight class on all this stuff but I did almost ruin my engine during initial startup due to having too much fuel. One of my "new" 36lb injectors was stuck open. The engine was so rich, it blew carbon out the exhaust and my eyes stung in my shop. All in about 30 sec. I run a mechanical fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail as well as an electronic on my console. It is next to my AFR gauge showing if I am rich or lean. Hope this helps on the 24's
09-10-2019 06:32 PM
Want2BS8ed
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisITGuy View Post
i would like to know what they set the FPR so the 24lb injectors dont over fuel. what is the timing set at? still using the stock ford coil?

Builder recommended the installer start with what ever the previous pressure setting was; 39#'s in my case and that didn't change.

Timing was set at a stock 10° BTDC.

As for the coil? Stock-ish... I had previously installed an MSD no. 8227 coil on the old motor when I did the initial sixliter tune. The installer swapped all of that over.

I'm parroting, but as it was explained to me the combination of the GT40 heads, 1:7 rockers, cam and freer flowing exhaust we're going to outpace the 19# injectors and the SD's expected parameters.

Initially I was told to get an adjustable FPR so the pressure could be upped on the existing injectors to compensate. When I mentioned I planned to replace them I was told to bump up to 24# injectors.

Is there something specific I should be on the lookout for? What would be the symptoms of the injectors over fueling?
09-10-2019 12:39 PM
TravisITGuy i would like to know what they set the FPR so the 24lb injectors dont over fuel. what is the timing set at? still using the stock ford coil?
09-10-2019 12:00 PM
Doosenberry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2BS8ed View Post
Looking forward to doing an [email protected] teardown to figure out what really went south on the original motor.
If you want engine results like mine, run 85 octane on a premium only build, then rev the crap out of it and ignore all of the detonation. I'm fairly certain that's what caused mine.

Also, when I had that engine built, I didn't upgrade anything else in the drivetrain, as my funds were super light at that point, and ended up losing second gear (literal chunks of metal in the pan) in my C6 a couple months after the engine was installed. I put in a rebuilt C6 and a Hughes converter and never had a problem after that, until I blew up the engine a decade later that is.

I would just take it easy on the tranny until you troubleshoot things. Especially if it's already acting up. Mine didn't give warning signs, it just fell apart as I was putting around town in the truck. I thought my new engine had blown up as I came to a skidding stop when it shifted into second and locked up.
09-10-2019 08:21 AM
slawson2000 Start with the easy stuff first.

MAke sure the MPL is aligned correct.

http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/...ry/media/81709

Maybe replace it.

Then I would head this direction. I've had my troubles with an EEC.

https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum...ode-628-a.html
09-10-2019 06:18 AM
cobrajoe Get yourself a Billet Converter and go from there.
09-09-2019 10:10 PM
Want2BS8ed Been somewhat reluctant to provide an update until sorting a couple issues out...

Got the truck back last Thursday. Motor is in, runs great. Idles smoothly, pulls hard. Night and day difference to what was in there before.

That’s the good news.

The bad news? On the bottom of the final invoice TECHNICIAN NOTES: Feels like transmission is starting to fail...

WTH? Sure enough, starting to slip occasionally and getting an intermittent shudder between 3rd and OD under moderate throttle. Pulled codes:

628 Excessive torque converter clutch slippage
634 Manual Lever Position (MLP) sensor voltage higher or lower than expected

4 oz. Shudder Fixx - no change, so doesn’t seem to be a fluid problem. At a constant 45 mph, tap the brake and the rpm’s rise and fall as expected; when shuddering, rpm’s stay the same indicating TC failure.

Sooooo... not particularly excited about spending more money after the engine swap, but replace the TC? Replace the MLPS? Man, please don’t tell me it’s time for a new tranny.

Blahh - sucketh mucheth. How are we ever going to come up with a better name than Project Blue Balls for a transmission swap?

Meanwhile, did the first oil change. Little bit of fine gold glitter, but nothing ferrous or chunky, so looked good. Will do another drop in 500 miles and convert over to the Royal Purple 10w40 HPS the builder recommends.

Heading back to the installer tomorrow to pick-up the old engine. Looking forward to doing an [email protected] teardown to figure out what really went south on the original motor.
09-04-2019 05:30 PM
Want2BS8ed ...bad coolant sensor... another day gone.

4WDS hopes to have it wrapped up tomorrow though, so fingers crossed.
09-04-2019 02:25 PM
Want2BS8ed
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisITGuy View Post
i am very curious how the 24lb injectors are going to run with the SD.

You and me both... hopefully we’ll know soon.

I have been lead to believe more fuel in the higher capacity GT40 heads will bring everything back into the SD’s operating envelope and keep the engine from running lean at WOT.

It runs - hopefully we’ll know by this evening if it runs well.
09-04-2019 02:06 PM
Want2BS8ed Just received a text from 4WDS: “It runs. Lot of tweaking & tuning needs to be done before we hit the streets though. ”

YouTube (Short URL)
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Fired on the first crank. Shut it down to trace a vacuum leak and now it won’t start... so close.

Project Blue Balls continues to earn its title.
09-04-2019 12:11 PM
TravisITGuy i am very curious how the 24lb injectors are going to run with the SD.
09-04-2019 07:03 AM
Want2BS8ed crickets... :angry
09-02-2019 09:02 PM
Rusty in Wis [QUOTE=Want2BS8ed;7239554]3 steps forward, 2 steps back. Today’s drama comes courtesy of the EGR tube to intake connector...



If I remember right when you go back together with the EGR tube start it in that fitting good before bolting up the valve to the intake. It makes life much easier.
08-31-2019 02:56 PM
thequietman That's great news...post a video of it running.....congratulations
08-31-2019 03:34 AM
Want2BS8ed I have been told, that as of Friday afternoon; Orey and Blue Ball have been... uhh... uhm... mated?

4WDS is hoping to have the last bits transferred and the initial startup by Tuesday.


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08-30-2019 07:50 AM
thequietman HOLY CRAP THAT IS SO DAMN FUNNY AND TRUE...
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