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-   -   Nasty noise from engine (https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/7-1980-96-bronco-tech/501996-nasty-noise-engine.html)

end user 02-17-2019 04:55 PM

88 ignition issues wont start.
 
Truck sat for 4 months, got it insured and drove for a week with 0 issues. Went to start today and nothing. B&M shifter NSS failed so had to by pass it. Started engine and got a nasty whine and noise. Through it was the starter that got stuck. Stopped and started but the noise is still there. Whine and sounds like lifters? Oil in engine and only going by idiot gauge but there's pressure. Engine is rebuilt and has about 7K km on it but ran perfect for two years.

Video of noise


fordbronco1995 02-17-2019 05:16 PM

Id take the serpentine belt off then start it, this way it will rule out any of the drive accessories.

Wrencher61 02-17-2019 05:19 PM

I agree with you it sounds like the starter is stuck in the ring gear on the flex plate. Feel of the starter with the engine NOT running 😳🙈. I bet itís hot as f&[email protected]!

Wrencher61 02-17-2019 06:01 PM

If you have the typical fender-mounted starter solenoid it could be stuck. Also wondering if the trans is all the way in park, and when you jumpered the NSS did you cause the starter wire to remain hot?

end user 02-17-2019 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrencher61 (Post 7176924)
If you have the typical fender-mounted starter solenoid it could be stuck. Also wondering if the trans is all the way in park, and when you jumpered the NSS did you cause the starter wire to remain hot?

Well first the truck would not start when I turned the key, just power came on and heard the fuel pump. I just used a small wire between the two wires going to the NSS after I disconnected them from it. Which would act like when its in Park (I'm guessing) I also banged on the starter with a mallet and the sound changed a little but still I think its the starter now or like you said stuck solenoid.but hard to hear as I got no one else to start the truck and don't want to run it long enough to get underneath it.

How can I bypass the solenoid to start the starter motor and see if the solenoid is stuck.?

Wrencher61 02-17-2019 06:21 PM

Let’s see, ok with the engine off and key off get a scrap jumper wire. Take the “S” wire off the solenoid. Solenoid is usually labeled with a raised s there. Anyway jump from big terminal from the battery to the s terminal. The solenoid should make a ‘thunk’ sound and the starter should be heard to engage and spin. Do that first t. If it doesn’t act like that I can tell you what to do next

Wrencher61 02-17-2019 06:25 PM

Is the starter really hot?

Wrencher61 02-17-2019 08:32 PM

Check the bolts on the starter. If it has come loose that could have caused it to jam.

El Kabong 02-17-2019 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrencher61 (Post 7177006)
Check the bolts on the starter. If it has come loose that could have caused it to jam.

x2. Loose bolts can allow the starter to rock & stay engaged.

It doesn't sound like a stuck solenoid if it stops when you turn off the key.

When you bypassed the NSS were there 2 wires or 4? A lot of times there are 4. 2 for the NSS, 2 for the back up switch. If you accidentally connected 1/2 the NSS pair to half of the back up light circuit the starter would continue to run.

end user 02-17-2019 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Kabong (Post 7177042)
x2. Loose bolts can allow the starter to rock & stay engaged.

It doesn't sound like a stuck solenoid if it stops when you turn off the key.

When you bypassed the NSS were there 2 wires or 4? A lot of times there are 4. 2 for the NSS, 2 for the back up switch. If you accidentally connected 1/2 the NSS pair to half of the back up light circuit the starter would continue to run.

Yah had the wrong ones jumped. So figured out which is what and top switch is reverse and bottom nss. Just put the truck in reverse and watched which wires turned off the reverse lights. Now I jumped the proper ones and no go on engine start. So would I be looking at the relay on the fender or the fuse for the relay?

El Kabong 02-18-2019 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by end user (Post 7177088)
Yah had the wrong ones jumped. So figured out which is what and top switch is reverse and bottom nss. Just put the truck in reverse and watched which wires turned off the reverse lights. Now I jumped the proper ones and no go on engine start. So would I be looking at the relay on the fender or the fuse for the relay?

Since the relay on the fender (solenoid in the circle I grew up in) worked when the wrong wires were connected, it sounds like the problem is somewhere else.

Does an 88 have a 3 post solenoid? I think so. If so disconnect the little wire to the solenoid, & have a helper turn the key to start while you check for voltage on the little wire. Try it in both park & neutral, & then with the nss bypassed.

If you don't get power to the little solenoid wire under any of those methods, then check for power to the nss with the key turned to start. No power there? Then it might be a bad or misadjusted ignition switch. Or an ignition actuator that is starting to fail & not move the switch fully to the start position. Do some of that testing & let us know what you find.

biggum 02-18-2019 07:48 AM

Nasty noise from engine
 
@end user

Donít run it like this youíll chew up your flex plate.

I had a similar issue on my 86. Randomly when starting the starter would stay engaged even with the key out if start with engine running or key fully off.

I tried about five different solenoids and a couple new starters and rebuilt my key switch, actuator, and replaced the ignition switch at the bottom of the column.

Replaced all battery cables and starter cables.

None of that fixed it.

Finally upgraded to a new model starter, the smaller high torque one, pmgr type.

Problem solved. Still not sure exactly why but thatís what fixed it.

PGMR has solenoid on the starter and runs the current differently.

If I had it to do again I would haves just started there (ha, ha) since itís a big upgrade anyway. Write up on the site on how.

Good luck.


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gaxlt 02-19-2019 01:39 AM

Every time I had a starter problem it made a horrible, horrible noise or wouldn't work at all.
Did you check your exhaust. :D

end user 03-03-2019 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Kabong (Post 7177096)
Since the relay on the fender (solenoid in the circle I grew up in) worked when the wrong wires were connected, it sounds like the problem is somewhere else.

Does an 88 have a 3 post solenoid? I think so. If so disconnect the little wire to the solenoid, & have a helper turn the key to start while you check for voltage on the little wire. Try it in both park & neutral, & then with the nss bypassed.

If you don't get power to the little solenoid wire under any of those methods, then check for power to the nss with the key turned to start. No power there? Then it might be a bad or misadjusted ignition switch. Or an ignition actuator that is starting to fail & not move the switch fully to the start position. Do some of that testing & let us know what you find.

Ok just for the hell of it I got a new relay but no go with everything connected back. I can jump the replay from positive from battery to S terminal and truck starts but I don't see any voltage coming to the S wire. I don't have time to trouble shoot wiring for now so can I just install a push button for now?

So where is the S wire coming from at the ignition? Could a bad ignition key tumbler cause this?

El Kabong 03-03-2019 07:22 PM

Yeah, a push button should buy you some time. But you should still hunt down the real problem as soon as you get a chance.

The actual ignition switch is behind the dash, on top of the column. It is operated by a rod, that is moved by the ignition actuator, which is driven by a toothed gear, that is turned by the cylinder. If any of that goes bad it can cause the actual switch to not move far enough to reach the "start" position. If that is happening the most likely culprit is the pot metal ignition actuator, which is prone to fail as these trucks get older.

Sometimes you can buy more time by adjusting the switch on top of the column. On my 90 I first adjusted the switch, then replaced the switch, but finally had to replace the actuator to really fix it. IIrc that actuator also unlocks the shifter & steering, so it is likely that the pushbutton bypass is only a temporary fix.

Sixlitre gives a quick test/bypass if the actuator is starting to fail here:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixlitre (Post 1092411)
Reach down lower on the column and find a steel rod running down the column. Using a pick tool or bent needle nose pliers, grab the steel rod and pull down on it with yo' left hand (while you have the key turned all the way on, with yo' right hand).

Bet you get a vrooom noise then !;)

Sixlitre

If you determine that the actuator is failing, here is a good thread with more info added in throughout. I followed these instructions to replace it on my 90, but didn't have to drop the column as described.
https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum...85-w-tilt.html The pics appear to be gone, but you can find them here:
Steering_Column Click on any pic for a larger version.

biggum 03-03-2019 07:29 PM

The next time it sticks engaged, whack the solenoid with a wrench or something and I bet it stops.

On mine the solenoid was getting stuck, welding together. I tried multiple solenoids, rebuilding ignition switch etc with no luck.




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biggum 03-03-2019 07:29 PM

Yes, the s wire comes from the ignition.


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El Kabong 03-03-2019 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggum (Post 7181632)
Yes, the s wire comes from the ignition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

...and takes a side trip thru the NSS on the way to the solenoid.

end user 03-03-2019 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Kabong (Post 7181626)
Yeah, a push button should buy you some time. But you should still hunt down the real problem as soon as you get a chance.

The actual ignition switch is behind the dash, on top of the column. It is operated by a rod, that is moved by the ignition actuator, which is driven by a toothed gear, that is turned by the cylinder. If any of that goes bad it can cause the actual switch to not move far enough to reach the "start" position. If that is happening the most likely culprit is the pot metal ignition actuator, which is prone to fail as these trucks get older.

Sometimes you can buy more time by adjusting the switch on top of the column. On my 90 I first adjusted the switch, then replaced the switch, but finally had to replace the actuator to really fix it. IIrc that actuator also unlocks the shifter & steering, so it is likely that the pushbutton bypass is only a temporary fix.

Sixlitre gives a quick test/bypass if the actuator is starting to fail here:


If you determine that the actuator is failing, here is a good thread with more info added in throughout. I followed these instructions to replace it on my 90, but didn't have to drop the column as described.
https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum...85-w-tilt.html The pics appear to be gone, but you can find them here:
Steering_Column Click on any pic for a larger version.


Thanks,was about to get a pair on needle nose pliers and move the rod lo see if it was bent. Yah want to fix if properly but I only get 1 day off per week and leave my house at 8:30am and don't come back till 8PM so no desire to do any work on the truck in the cold and at night especially when I get home from work so late.

biggum 03-03-2019 09:04 PM

You may find it does the same thing with a push bottom. Whack the solenoid when itís sticking first. If the starter disengages when you do, youíll know itís not ignition related.

Cheers


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