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Discussion Starter #181
So maybe someone reading this has some insight,

Building a 514 for the bronco. D9 block, Bored to 4.440 and 4.150 stroke balanced forged Scat rotating assembly. The issue is the heads. I have the stock heads that could be worked over, I have a set of C9AE heads off a 429 I got that would do nicely but id rather keep that engine together. Looking at the AFR 290cc Bullit aluminum heads or the Ford Performance Super Cobra Jet. Really the only break down is one oils through the push rod and the other oils through the head. Flow and chamber size is mostly the same, price is so close it doesnt matter, The AFRs take special relief pistons but thats not an issue since all the stroker kits can come with pistons that can handle that. I also wont be running that crazy of a cam.

Wondering if anyone has any input before I either start a new thread or make some long phone calls
 

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They both oil through the pushrods. Both will require a piston with valve reliefs specific to the head.

The SCJ's can use any CJ type intake where as the AFR's need a specific intake.

They both can make power so either one can probably work for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #183
They both oil through the pushrods. Both will require a piston with valve reliefs specific to the head.

The SCJ's can use any CJ type intake where as the AFR's need a specific intake.

They both can make power so either one can probably work for you.
After talking to some guys on a 460 page I am going with the AFRs. The rotating assembly I am looking at has pistons matched for AFR heads. Also The intake isnt a big deal since I want one that has bosses for fuel injectors. The AFR has that, so does the edlebrock and the trick flow. All of which are port matched well enough to either head.

I was informed I am going way overboard for what I want. My goal is around 500 horsepower. Which could be done stock cubic inch and worked over high compression heads (which I have on my 429). But if life has taught me anything its to build it for 600hp and only run it at 500hp. That way nothing is on the edge.

This engine build may not happen right away, I kind of feel like I should just dump a stock 460 in it and finish the rest of the Bronco before I dump 10k into an engine.
 

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The Edelbrock or the Trick Flow intakes will not work with the AFR heads. More important is the Intake flange angle and distance between the cylinder heads. You can't machine the TF or Edelbrock to fit. Careful over building. The block, rotating assembly, and certain valvetrain components are you foundation and spending more money into it is fine if you are looking for durability. But when it comes to the bare heads and intake choosing carefully is of the utmost importance. Your will very dissatisfied on your choice if you chose an intake based on the fact if it has injector bung locations. Those are noting and are not thick enough to actually support a fuel injector welding in bungs will still be required. Your choice is going to leave you with a high rpm beast with no bottom end torque. Fine if all you want to do is drag race it. All important for this type of vehicle and engine combo is that 1500 to 4000 rpm where it will spend most of its life. With your selection of parts you are killing that. And spent more money than you should have. It's gonna to leave a sour taste in your mouth because it will be a dog until it reaches 4000 rpm.

It would be great if AFR would offer a dual plane intake to go with their smaller port heads or someone else made one to fit, but they don't so throw out AFR decision. The intake runners are too large for this type of application and will be lazy dogs. YES you can EFI a dual plane intake especially the Edelbrock RPM Air Gap. Check out Kevin Thompson's "Hot Rod Solutions" He has been doing EFI intake conversion for over 20 years. He knows his stuff and has several pictures of dual plane intakes he has converted. The bad rumor of converting a dual plane intake to EFI came from the old carb days when for what the intake was designed to do. Granted we don't have to worry anymore about vacuum signals to a carb, but the smaller runners are what we are after. Granted some dual plane intakes are a pain to convert to EFI because of runner heights and angles vary, but if you look at the Air Gap you don't have that problem.

My suggestion and you can take it for what is worth and that aint two cents. Find a good D9 block. You are looking for something that will clean up nicely with an 0.030 bore and no more. You want that cylinder wall thickness for durability.

Bare cylinder head choice is simple TFS Power Port 290 cylinder heads. Yes I know old school and not new tech like AFR or Kasse heads. Reason why, they are bare and you can pick and chose the correct components to build a good flowing dependable head. Have someone like Charlie Evans, Scott J, Randy Malik or, Jet Boat Bob do what is know as a Super Bowl porting job on them. It involves blending and smoothing the bowl area of the ports and leaves the runner alone. Keeping the intake runner small makes this head WOKE from idle to 6000. Whoever you chose to port them and do the valve job speak with them about using Ferrea 6000 series valves or comparable. Manley is a good valve choice if they want to use them. Beware of offshore valves unless you know they are comparable. They may have their favorable size given the valve lift as the valves may clip each other. 2.25 and 1.76 would be great. You will be keeping valve lift under 0.700 so I don't think this will be a problem.

Now we are going to steal something from AFR's playbook because we know it works already. You are going to want to run a hydraulic roller cam with solid roller lifters. Scott J has this down pat with his XM grinds. He is the go to guy for camshaft. Don't just ask him to give you specs buy the cam from him. What idea from AFR we are going to use if their choice of valve springs. They use some of the best springs and have already did the research for you on a durable spring and compatible with the heavy valvetrain. They use PAC Racing 1940 valve springs. This is a hydraulic roller spring capable of 0.725 lift. Chose this one because it doesn't have excess pressures and kill the cam. Even though you are using Solid Roller lifters you don't want heavier roller springs with the hydraulic roller cam.

Stick with no more than 10:1 compression on the rotating assembly. CP Pistons makes an excellent piston that falls perfectly into this combo. They aren't as common with the Ford guys because they don't offer the wide range that Diamond does. But they are great pistons. Their 6206-030 piston is perfect for what you want to do. With a 38cc dish combined with a 4.5 stroke a 6.7 rod leave it 0.005 in the hole with a 0.045 thick gasket and you will be real close to 9.5:1 compression. You wallet at the gas pump will thank you and you will enjoy riding more. You aren't gong to miss that .5 to 1.5 point of compression.

Crank and Rod choice go with either Molnar or Scat. Stay away from Eagle. Tom Molnar knows his stuff when it comes to cranks and rods and will tell you that HP rating of cranks and rods is BS. He does go against the commercial gain in not publishing HP ratings. His recommendations are based solely on application and his pricing is right in line with Scat. Like I said you are looking for a 4.5 inch stroke and using a 6.7 inch rod giving you a 545 cubic inch. Talk with Mark Oneal at Vigilante Performance Part for crank rod and pistons. He has been in the rotating parts business and even got his start at Diamond Pistons.

You mention you would like port EFI. No You don't not yet anyway. If you have never done EFI wiring and tuning before you are at the mercy of whoever does your tuning for you. Yeah I know everyone says their efi system does self tuning or learning but it can only do so much. Get your feet wet with something else before you go full on port injection.

545 CI is going to require a lot of airflow even with with 6500 rpm limit. You will want a 4150 based EFI system something simply and user friendly. The Sniper system that several here have used successfully will not flow enough air to get the job done The standard Sniper system only flows 800 CFM not enough to satisfy your engine and it will not lend itself later if you do decide to upgrade to port injection later. Next on the list is the Sniper XFlow. The XFlow is rated at 900 CFM and is enough to get by but again no upgrade potential. The sniper system injectors are on the small size and rated at 100 lb/hr at 58.5 PSI. I will get to why that is important later.

The bolt on EFI I would highly recommend is the Terminator Stealth system. 950 CFM Injectors rated 80 lbs/hr at 43.5 PSI. Don't worry that the injectors sound small cause we are going to do a sniper tick and bump that to 60 PSI. You can go up to a max of 75 PSI if your fuel pump supports that high of pressure. Now you have plenty of air and fuel to feed this beast. The Stealth has one benefit over the others in that the ECU can be used to control port injection and coil near plug with a simple firmware update. As matter of fact the ECU is the HP ECU.

Since you may want port injection later I am going to recommend a Holley EFI Dual Sync Distributor. For now you will only use the crank signal to the Terminator EFI system. It comes with the proper steel gear to match the cam plus it has a cam sync signal for upgrading to port injection later. For ignition box either the Sniper Hyperspark or the MSD 6 Off Road box with the Sniper EFI Hyper Spark coil. If you decide later you want port injection the needed signals will be there. If you want coil near plug, pull the cap rotor and plug wires and they make a slick cover to replace all that.

If this combo doesn't hand you 600 horsepower something is seriously wrong. It will be very mild mannered and a breeze to drive. Yes GOBS of torque you can feel in the seat of your pants. Careful that you don't stain them the first time you really romp on it. I would guesstimate something in the neighborhood of 700 to 750 foot lbs. Pulling nicely from idle to 6000-6500 RPM. Nice to drive anywhere you want to. Crawl all day or blasting down the freeway whatever you choose.

Damn I have had too much coffee this morning. Hope this guides you in saving some money and gives you something pleasurable and something you want to drive anytime anywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #185
Thats a lot of info to take in. So I will just hit the points I have some info on.

I am no stranger to EFI. Ive done the self learning throttle body systems as well as the newer terminator X systems. I was leaving those details out of the build since its not relevant to the hard parts I am discussing right now. That amount of wiring isnt a big deal. Same goes for tuning, my only hangup there is not having a chassis dyno at my disposal. So everything will be seat of the pants testing until I am confident that I am close then its off to a dyno.

The intake choice will match the heads I use. I was just throwing out names as examples of intakes that have that setup on them. I know the proposed setup will be a dog down low but this Bronco is purely a toy. I have no intention on ever towing with it, ever off roading it, or even racing it. Gears will be in the neighborhood of 4.56 and tires will be 35s. Trans will more than likely be a gas ratio zf5 unless I find a diesel one I cant pass up and just swap the cases.

As far as rotating assembly I am stuck on a 514. Back when ford offered them as a crate engine a freinds dad had one and I thought it was so cool. So mine has to have that setup. I am a stickler for that detail so even having a 521 but calling it a 514 is out of the question.

I will do some looking into the other ideas you mentioned. I would much rather buy assembled heads if possible but I am not stuck on that. My issue comes in the form of time. I work on the road and have a small amount of time home between outings so if I can have parts sitting there ready to go then I would rather take that route. I dont have any engine shops around me I trust enough to blindly ship parts to them. But the bright side of this is I have almost 3 months to figure this out before I spend a nickle (unless a deal comes up I cant walk away from).
 

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I don't think it will be a dog down low,personally anyway.

If you in fact use a manual trans you will use the appropriate gear to keep it in the power band so no issue there i think.

I have used both Scat and Molnar parts. I had a Scat cast steel 4.300 stroke 521 i ran for a lot of years and have nothing bad to say about them. The Molnar stuff is real nice though and i'd say a tick above Scat. My opinion anyway. No experience with eagle stuff except in some SBC's.

When i get cylinder heads i buy them from a cylinder head porter and they start with bare castings and put whatever parts they see appropriate for the intended use.

Your setup sounds pretty mild but i would still buy the heads this way, just to insure a quality valve job and quality valves/components. Choose any of the shops mentioned above and they know BBF's , they probably put a recipe together based on your power goals. They've been there done that.

I would only go with a shop with a lot of experience with BBF combinations.
 

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Discussion Starter #187
So I talked to an engine guy that a few of my dirt track racecar buddies use. Hes done quite a few BBF engines for pulling trucks. Said my build will be the most mild hes done on that platform. He did advise me to stay away from the AFR heads because of the port match up with anything other than their single plane intake which was mentioned in here. Seems like we are on the same page for what I want. Only thing he suggested extra was either going with an aftermarket block or having mine cut for 4 bolt mains. Not sure why since I have zero interest in boost on this and it will easily make the power I want on stock bottom end parts.

He did however ask why I was fixated on the 514 setup and why not get with the times. That a 408w would be a lot less money, could produce the same power but feel lighter as their trans options done have as much rotating mass to overcome. Its just food for thought but I still think the big block is the way to go. Maybe with an automatic though, I found a company that can put a 4r70w behind a 460 and make it hold up to any power level.

This is all just thought right now. I still need to finish the rust repair and bolt the tub back down.

The good news is this is waiting for me at home

170928


Not that I care for it to work. But since it has the plug for it I wanted it to look right
 

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By the time you have the OEM block machined and buy the caps and fasteners you will be well on your way to the cost of aftermarket block.

At the HP level you are neither are needed. Just more money unnecessarily spent.

If you are going to all the trouble of adapting a transmission go all out and go for the 6R80. Stock form with a Raybestos GPZ frictions and Kolene steels will easily support your HP requirements.
 

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Discussion Starter #189
I agree with the aftermarket block vs the work on a stock block. Same with my power level not needing it

The issue of using is 6r80 is I dont have 3 of them at my disposal. I used to daily drive a 5.0 swapped ranger and thats the trans I used. Anytime I got a deal on one id snag it. So I have them just sitting around.
 

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Discussion Starter #190
Ok enough engine talk for a while. Its kind of a lost cause until I can make up my mind what I wanna do

That being said who wants to educate me on the swing away tire carriers. To my knowledge my bronco didnt come equipped with one but its getting one. Ive found some info on them but all the threads that had any info seem to be missing the pictures. I will be pulling the quarter panel to do rust repair so adding the needed pieces wont be a big deal. Just not sure the factory setup can handle a 35" tire.
 

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A 2 bolt block is good for way more than you're planning for.
 

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I don't know norm. 35" tire is just about the line with weight. Not a big deal if you're mall crawlin' or back-roading but if you plan on bouncing around a good bit... then you can expect wear and tear over time that could eventually need repair. Also, far more likely to cause damage if the swing mount gets away from you. Doesn't happen often but it's a soul crusher when it does. Bumper mounts hold up much better and won't require the extra body work or effort to find inner body re-enforcement brackets.
Obviously, cost is higher and I can't recall seeing one added to a stock bumper... so you're looking at a whole rear bumper. Cool if you thought of going that way, not so much if you weren't. fwiw, I have fit a 35" in the interior but it's tight as hell and about the max size for that option. Just food for thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #193
After a few beers last night I started playing around on autocad (having a mechanical engineering degree is finally paying off lol) and drew up a design that should work for what I am doing. Its going to be bumper style but allow me to run a stock bumper. It will be independent of the rear bumper so I can run a nice chrome bumper.
 

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I don't know norm. 35" tire is just about the line with weight. Not a big deal if you're mall crawlin' or back-roading but if you plan on bouncing around a good bit... then you can expect wear and tear over time that could eventually need repair. Also, far more likely to cause damage if the swing mount gets away from you. Doesn't happen often but it's a soul crusher when it does. Bumper mounts hold up much better and won't require the extra body work or effort to find inner body re-enforcement brackets.
Obviously, cost is higher and I can't recall seeing one added to a stock bumper... so you're looking at a whole rear bumper. Cool if you thought of going that way, not so much if you weren't. fwiw, I have fit a 35" in the interior but it's tight as hell and about the max size for that option. Just food for thought.
I was referring to a 2 bolt 429/460 block being good to more power than he is looking for.
 
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Discussion Starter #195
Through an odd series of events I just came into a 1990 f-super duty that had a roll back bed on it. The bed is gone but the 460/zf5 is still there and in perfectly usable condition. Figured for 500 bucks its a decent enough deal, plus it gives me the zf5 I wanted to use in the bronco. I dont have a ton of use for the engine as ive got that D9 assembled engine sitting in my shop right next to the C9 429. But hey they dont make them anymore so having a spare wont hurt.
 

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Just to add to the thread, I have a similar build on my truck:
-Scat 521 assy. 10:1
-AFR 270 bullit
-Crane roller cam
-Edelbrock RPM intake
The motor made 604 Hp at 5700 RPM and 631 TQ at 4200 RPM. I am satisfied with the results and can turn 37” easily! The reason I kept an Edelbrock RPM intake is one I had it and the other, was that I read an article that tested different intake and even if the port match isn’t perfect, It did not affect to much the end results. This way I was able to keep a dual plane manifold.
 

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Sounds like a good engine!!
 

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Discussion Starter #199
Sounds like a stout build without any special stuff. Basically what I am going for.

How do you like that fast EFI? Ive played with the holley systems and a FiTech system. Dont know anything about the Fast EFI
 

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For the FAST system can't say I'm not satisfied with the system. I got to know like all systems what you need to get it working. The biggest problem with the system is the MAP sensor that needed to be remotely connected since in off-road situations, it would fill with fuel. Took a vacuum line and plumed it a bit higher that the port and most of my problems were solved. Easy to say but took me a while and frustrations to solve the issue. Also, Fast changed my ECU for free for an update version this was nice from them good support.

If I had to rebuy I might try the Holley for more screen options and better programmability. To program with the FAST I would need to change the ECU for I think a Sportsman version$$$
 
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