[muddybronco]

For those of you with 220V welders, how have you addressed adapting the unit to plug into a drier outlet? I found a web page that mentioned that the receptacles are expensive so hacking off the welder cord is cheaper, but wouldn't that void my warranty? Does anybody have a site that shows which blades on the drier plug should connect to the receptacle at the welder end of the cord, or will it be obvious? My new Lincoln AC225 sure is purty :santa

 

[kevinkaseykizer]

what you should do is run to your local hardware store (lowes) and just make an adapter, get some good cable, the 220 female end (to match the welder's plug) and a male end (like the one on the dryer) and connect the cable to the 2 ends and...bam! your good to go!

 

[Davids78Bronco]

I must have been wrong. Not sure why mine works then, but I've never been electrocuted

 

[TTBlows]

Green should be ground, white should be nuetral. You don't need the latter. You need two hots, should be red and black, and ground which should be green.

You might SERIOUSLY consider running to Home Depot and getting two 4x4" boxes with the receptacle you need and some 10ga wire (assuming a 30A circuit). Replace the existing dryer outlet with one of the same style, but in the metal box so you can then break out of that with a set screw connecter and conduit. Run wire over to your new box mounted in a location of your choosing (preferably no more than 50ft from the breaker). Hook up the red, black and green and now you have an outlet for your welder always ready to go. I'm guessing no more than $30 in parts. Just dont' try to run the dryer and welder at the same time, and don't sue me if you don't meet code (who's gonna know LOL) or manage to zap yourself :shocked

 

[OffRoadPoser]

OR........

You can do it the right way and run a new circuit off your breaker panel and wire in the correct outlet for your welder. There are a number of hokey ways to do it, but in the ned you really want to do it right. All those wires have a purpose, make sure they are all properly connected. It is goign to be alot cheaper to do it the right way than to pay ana electrician to come fix your dryer wiring when you fry it, and ALOT cheaper then buying a new place when the insurance investigator tells you to :goodfinge because you burned your place down due to hokey wiring.

Rade

 

[TTBlows]

You can do it the right way and run a new circuit off your breaker panel and wire in the correct outlet for your welder. There are a number of hokey ways to do it,

Is there anything illegal about adding a second outlet to a circuit? I didn't think so.............. it's no different than adding another outlet to a 110V circuit. Granted, you couldn't run the dryer and welder at the same time, but is that against code? Doesn't seem any different than someone plugging a large elec heater, hair dryer and curling iron into the same circuit. Code can never totally prevent the end user from over-loading a circuit.......?

Now if the Lincoln is like my welder it technically requires a 50A receptacle (the plug pretty much looks like a 110 plug upside down and on steroids), and an inspector may not like seeing a 50A receptacle on a 30A breaker. I was able to argue my way around it 'cause my Hobart requires the 50A receptacle but only needs a 30A breaker, I told the inspector I didn't want to have to trash the nice molded cord on my Hobart just to install a different plug, and he agreed.

 

[OffRoadPoser]

Actually dryers are required to be on a dedicated circuit, meaning nothing else can be on that circuit. 110v outlets have different rules as far as how many outlets can be on one circuit. Running a 50A receptical on a 30A breakers is fine, because the breaker will kick out before you can overload the receptical. Now if you had it the other way around it would be possible to overload the 30A receptical (say by drawing 49A) and not kick out the 50A circuit breaker, which could cause melting and sparks and all sorts of cool stuff to happen.

Rade

 

[muddybronco]

I considered adding the 2nd outlet, but I'm primarily going to be using this machine at my rental house and don't want to make any changes to the existing wiring. I will probably just build the adapter/extension cord, but I was hoping I could find an alternative to the $30 receptacle that I read about. Hopefully i can find one cheaper... it's just molded plastic with a little metal in it :toothless There are 3 blades on the drier outlet, so where does the 4th wire come into play, normally?

 

[SuperDave]

Your welder doesn't use 4 wires, but codes now state that dryers and stoves have be 4 prong.
1 ground: bare coper or green
1 common: White used for the 120 volt parts IE: clocks
2 hots: one red and one black. Between these two you get 240 volts

The old way you just used 3 prongs/wires. Two hot wires and a ground. This would mean that the white was also a hot leg vs. a common in 4 wire systems

I considered adding the 2nd outlet, but I'm primarily going to be using this machine at my rental house and don't want to make any changes to the existing wiring. I will probably just build the adapter/extension cord, but I was hoping I could find an alternative to the $30 receptacle that I read about. Hopefully i can find one cheaper... it's just molded plastic with a little metal in it :toothless There are 3 blades on the drier outlet, so where does the 4th wire come into play, normally?

 

[muddybronco]

I looked at my drier and what they've done is run 2 of the wires out separately through the |-shaped blades, but then combined the 2 "pins" of the L-shaped hole into one blade on the drier cord and carry it as 3 wires to the drier. I'm pretty sure the white and grounds are both connected to the same ground bus bar anyway, so it would seem that we can do exactly the same thing for our welders, no? I am going to pull the access panel and drier outlet apart tomorrow to satisfy my curiosity, but I think this is how it's done. It makes sense that if you have two 12awg hot wires you also need two 12awg ground wires to make sure that the current gets to ground without heating up a single wire. If that's the case, it would be better to tie the white and green together inside the extension cable plug on the drier outlet side so that the current can get to ground using both wires inside your home's walls. I am just making this crap up as I go along, let me know if any of it sounds right :drinkbud

 

[Dustball]

No! Not even close. The wires are color coded for a reason- green is ground and white is common. Common is not ground at all! Go to the library or a home store and read the how-to books on wiring.

 

[seboh]

I built an extension cord for mine... the biggest problem you'll have with the dryer plug idea is finding a loose receptacle end that matches the plug on the dryer. Depending on what plug the dryer uses, you might have to cut apart a dryer cord to get the right end.

The 4-wire thing is entirely dependant on where you live, too. Around here, only mobile homes are required to use a 4-wire plug on the dryer. The welder will only use a 3-wire hookup.

 

[Zebrafive]

Correct me if this is wrong, current will not be flowing on the ground wire of a 220volt circuit, unless there is fault. It is there for safety. Say there is a short in the welder, the current will travel thru the ground wire to ground. The current will quickly be more than the breaker rating and the breaker should open the circuit. With out a ground wire, a short would make the metal of the device "hot." If someone touched it they would be the path to ground.

Rental or not, do it right, correct size breaker, wire and outlet, should not cost that much more than making an adaper/cord. I would not piggy back from the drier outlet to another outlet for the welder.

 

[Dustball]

Correct me if this is wrong, current will not be flowing on the ground wire of a 220volt circuit, unless there is fault. It is there for safety. Say there is a short in the welder, the current will travel thru the ground wire to ground. The current will quickly be more than the breaker rating and the breaker should open the circuit. With out a ground wire, a short would make the metal of the device "hot." If someone touched it they would be the path to ground.

Rental or not, do it right, correct size breaker, wire and outlet, should not cost that much more than making an adaper/cord. I would not piggy back from the drier outlet to another outlet for the welder.

Right! Ground does not see any current unless something goes wrong, nothing like DC at all.

 

[78bronco460]

There's some bad info in this thread. I hope it gets deleted. Don't do this. If welders were meant to plug into drier outlets they'd come with drier plugs on them. You're begging for a house fire or an ambulance ride. I gotta ask what you're thinking asking for electrical advice on a 4x4 site? Call a real -Licensed, bonded, Union if possible- electrician and spend a couple hundred bucks to get it done right. Since the house is a rental it's a write-off anyhow.

For those of you with 220V welders, how have you addressed adapting the unit to plug into a drier outlet? I found a web page that mentioned that the receptacles are expensive so hacking off the welder cord is cheaper, but wouldn't that void my warranty? Does anybody have a site that shows which blades on the drier plug should connect to the receptacle at the welder end of the cord, or will it be obvious? My new Lincoln AC225 sure is purty :santa

 

[muddybronco]

If welders were meant to plug into drier outlets they'd come with drier plugs on them.

If Broncos were meant to have D60's under them, they'd come with them from the factory :twak

I gotta ask what you're thinking asking for electrical advice on a 4x4 site?

Ummm because most 4x4 enthusiasts have welders and thousands of them across the nation operate their welders from a drier outlet, and it's perfectly safe :twak (there's even mention of doing this exact thing in most welding books)

Common is not ground at all!

I went to both my dad's and my mom's houses and yanked the access panels off and studied the wiring. In fact, the bare copper grounds and white insulated neutrals for 110v and 220v DO go to the same ground bus, so they are all electrically equal. This was already a given since we know that if they were carrying different voltages, there would be a huge problem with the plug on the drier shorting the white and bare wires together at the L-shaped pin of the receptacle.

Anyway, I'm fairly confident in my design and I went and got the parts for the extension cord today. They are as follows:

6 ft long replacement drier cord with 10-3 wire: $8.99
50 amp receptacle for welder end of the cord: $12.49
15 ft of 10-3 flexible water resistant stranded wire: $19.65
Total: $41.31

That's a pretty expensive extension cord, but if you're not too far from your outlet you can save $20 by not getting the 15 ft of wire and hooking the drier cable straight to the welder receptacle. I would've done that but I might want to weld in the driveway if something is on my truck and can't be removed, so between the 6 ft drier cord, 15 ft wire, welder power cord, and welder stinger cables, there should be plenty of reach. I feel that this is plenty beefy since the cable shown in my welding book is made of 12-3 wire and is actually a 50 amp patch cable, so it could potentially see 50 amps while mine will never see more than 30, being on a 30 amp drier breaker.

 

[gobucs]

Now I am confused... just got a Lincoln 225V red box, but cant use it. I think the dryer/electric stove power stealing will safely work if done right, not a half a$$ job.

 

[TTBlows]

Ummm because most 4x4 enthusiasts have welders and thousands of them across the nation operate their welders from a drier outlet, and it's perfectly safe :twak (there's even mention of doing this exact thing in most welding books)


I went to both my dad's and my mom's houses and yanked the access panels off and studied the wiring. In fact, the bare copper grounds and white insulated neutrals for 110v and 220v DO go to the same ground bus, so they are all electrically equal. This was already a given since we know that if they were carrying different voltages, there would be a huge problem with the plug on the drier shorting the white and bare wires together at the L-shaped pin of the receptacle.

That was gonna be my response LOL (part 1)

As for the common and ground, I've never totally understood that. Can anyone elaborate? Yes, it certainly does seem they are the same point electrically since the inspector made me hook my ground bus into neutral bus. I know they're different, I just don't understand how.

To further muddy the waters my shop is all steel and the inspector made me tie the ground bus directly to the building (as if it's not already with all the bolts holding the service panel up, etc). So, neutral goes to ground which goes straight to the building. So it would seem anytime you touch the building you're touching ground/neutral.

But I dont' see anything necessarily unsafe about using a dryer outlet. 220V ac is 220V ac. Is my Bronco unsafe because I'm using a Taurus alternator? *If properly wired,* 12V is 12V. Same difference. Sure, 220 can kill you, but that's your problem.

 

[78bronco460]

Originally Posted by muddybronco
Ummm because most 4x4 enthusiasts have welders and thousands of them across the nation operate their welders from a drier outlet, and it's perfectly safe (there's even mention of doing this exact thing in most welding books)

muddybronco: I get why you ask here and that's cool. As for the perfectly safe part, I don't agree. Yes, thousands get away with it. Some don't. I hope it works out for you. Your safety was my concern.
Keith: Neutral and Ground are bonded together in the service only, but insulated from each other throughout the system because they are used for two different purposes. The steel bond in your building is to ensure the structure doesn't get to a voltage above ground. I don't know of a case where misuse of a Taurus alternator caused a fatality.

 

[Davids78Bronco]

I'm not going to post how I wired mine, again, but if mine is wrong, how do I do it right? I've called three electricians in town, and not one of them seems to know wtf I want. No one seems to know what to do with the 4th wire, whichever one that may be.

Logic tells me I can't use my range outlet, because the current rating is far too high to be used with the 50A welder. The dryer is on a 60S circuit... perfect. I pulled out my dryer installation instructions, and it states that the green power cord ground wire is to be connected to the cabinet with the ground screw - cabinet being the dryer housing. The white neutral power cord wire and the green ground wire from the dryer harness to the silver-colored center terminal on the terminal block. What this means is, basically what Keith stated... neutral is used as the ground. I'm probably completely wrong with my thinking, but mine works how it is