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Discussion Starter #21
That's really bizarre. Your setup STOCK should have gone to the box under the dash, but if you truly have been converted to a DSII ignition, you have to have an ignition box somewhere. And it's a big bundle of wires that go from it to the distributor and coil, so it should be really easy to find. It normally mounts on the driver's side fender. (The box over by the battery is the voltage regulator for the alternator.) Are you sure you have a DSII ignition?
Well, no I'm not sure. I assumed since it had a 4bbl, and older style dizzy (76 cap fit 99%). From my dizzy goes two wires. One black that runs to the coil (neg side I believe) and one that runs to the outside of the brake booster and through the firewall. This red wire had a splice about 18" from the dizzy, to maybe a factory wire? The two coil wires go to a similar place. There is NOT a DS2 box anywhere in my engine bay, and I didn't see it when I had my dash apart doing the gauges. It is a motorcraft distributor, and has a pertronix ignore of some sort in it. Could it be a regular duraspark1, converted from points?

Im sure the DUI would be best for my build anyways?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I like his attitude. :toothless



As far as I know, only the EFI head has kidney shaped chambers. Anything prior, be it a 240 or 300, is going to be D shaped. I'm not sure why, but I almost never hear of anyone using the EFI head for a performance build.



No pics? :D
It was probably actually a really low compression engine for emissions.



That'll be nice to have. And that's cool it has the heat provisions. The older ones didn't. A lot nicer than having to figure out a heat plate for the underside of the intake.



That's what I'm wondering, if maybe you have an even older ignition. I helped my brother convert his '69 Camaro from points, and it was really bizarre going through his ignition and it was only wires. There was no ignition control or the like. Just wires from and to the coil.
The DSII ignition box is around 5" x 5" x 2", so it's not exactly small, and not easy to hide. If it's there, you would have no trouble finding it.

If that's the case, the DUI is going to really wake that up.
Hmm I was almost sure it was the 240 with bean shaped chambers, but you give me hope yet! No pics, as I didn't want to contaminate my phone with biohazard material. Yeah, I figured low compression pistons, but couldn't get to the crank bolt to try and turn it over. The inside of the engine actually was cleaner than I imagined. It's definitely a good looking core block so far.

From what I've read, the efi head has some decent features for a bolt on upgrade, but the fast-burn valve shrouding hinders all-out performance.

I've personally dealt with a ds2 setup in a 74 and 76 bronco, so I know what the box looks like, and yeah, not easy to hide. Ill get some numbers off the distributor and search. Is the ds2 box and harness required for the DUI? Also, once figuring this ignition out, is there any reason I can't just yank the eec-iv box out? Ugh I can feel lots of wiring diagrams in my future...
 

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Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1306699-240-and-300-cylinder-head-differentiation.html

That thread has some pictures of the 240 vs. the 300 head chambers. The 240 has a slight bit more "bean" shape to it, but not much. Certainly not the all out kidney shape of the 240.

300



240

Well I'll check when I get off work, but damn I think it's straight D chambers.

Look at those two pics. Do you notice one extra hole per cylinder on that 240 head? It's to the left of the intake pushrods hole. Wonder what that's for

As for the DUI, that's gonna be the winning choice in my book. There's a mess of unhooked wires under my hood.

I've also read that thread, but I'll look over it tonight. Tons of good info on FTE and fordsix
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Yeah, wading through the feces to find a 240 with a 300 head (after only 12 years on the road) is pretty disheartening. I did get some cool pieces out of the deal though so I'm not too upset. Extra parts are always great too. Plus I know someone will want that single bbl carb somewhere. It's in nice shape.

Oddly, if you noticed the warranty tag in my pics above, mine has been overheated. I've gotten it hot once, but not to that point. My 'fan guard' doesn't do much for directing air at slow speeds. That will change.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Do it! The 300 is perfect for a shortbox. A mild build should roast the rear tires with a normal sized tire. The 300 I'm tearing down broke locked 37s loose on dirty pavement (granny low, at about 4500 rpm).
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Well muthersonsafarkingbeeotch it's a 300 head...

Casting C8TE-a



It does have those extra holes like that pic above. I can't read the casting on my 85 head, looks like someone took a welder to the code lol. But the 85 does not have the extra holes.



Im gonna go sulk in the corner for a while
 

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Discussion Starter #27
This is the distributor I was running. Was this a points dizzy, converted to electronic?





 

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Bummer! I was rooting for you.

Looks like the "TE" in the part number means it's a 300 head. An "AE" would be a 240.

If you want to be 100% certain, take 68ccs of water and pour it into the chamber. If it fills right up to the brim, you might still be in luck.
But... looks like it's a 300 head, so don't get your hopes up. =/



As for the distributor, that's what it looks like. That's not like any DuraSpark II distributor I've seen. It doesn't have the reluctor in it.



I see the 12127 cast into the side, but that part number comes up all over. Is there another part number on it somewhere?
Yeah, being ford did some odd things back around 74, you never know. But yeah im now 99.99% sure it's not a 240 head. I'll cover a chamber with a piece of plexiglass and bust out the pipette. Some day I'll run over and pull the block out and see if it's a 240 like the VIN says or a 300. Maybe I'll luck out and find a set of early 300 rods... The head was a c8 revision, so maybe, juuuust maybe, I'll get lucky.

As for the distributor, there's a smudged black ink stamp on it but it's illegible. My dad pointed out the hex shape on the drive shaft may be for points. Either way it's not going back in.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Awe come on rusty, aren't you trying to spend my money!? I'm going to go with the Davis unit, lile AbandonedBronco has.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dui-39820bk/overview/

I think I've narrowed my cam choices down to a handful. Three with single duration, and three with split duration.

Cam -duration [email protected] -lift -lsa -rpm range
Schneider 135H
270- 214- .472"- 110- 2000 to 5400

Howard's 280996-10
275- 221- .501"- 110- 2000 to 5800

Erson E270321 (AbandonedBronco has this one)
284- 220- .504"- 110- 2000 to 5000

Split durations

Crane H-272-2
272/284- 216/228- .487"/.515"- 112- 1800 to 5400 (cruise rpm 2400 to 3000, perfect for my 4spd)

Crane H-224/309-2-6
288/298- 224/234- .497"/.523"- 106- 2200 to 5600 (serious off road, circle track, etc)

Schneider 270-80H
270/280- 214/222- .480/.480- 110- 2200 to 5600.

From what I've read, split duration can hurt low and mid range torque. However, that's not a certainty. The longer duration of the exhaust helps evacuate gasses. However, the longer an exhaust valve is closed, the more torque it can build.

After putting these specs on paper, I really like a couple things about the Howard's cam. It has a huge rpm range, telling me it's got a nice flat torque curve. It's also got large lift, and moderate durations, giving me good torque above idle, and still has top end power.

I also like the crane h272, but I feel the split duration will hurt my low end more, even though it too has a great rpm range. With my exhaust, I don't feel I'll need the extra duration on the exhaust valve.

Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Im not super budget conscious, if it leads to a high quality part. I'm the kind that buys the best I can. (I have a $500+ Starrett protractor for instance). Craftsman is the cheapest tool I buy.

It's looking like a flattop piston with 6.5cc valve reliefs will give me the compression I want, wether I have to go 351w or 390.

There's also a nifty step piston that looks like it would drastically improve quench, while only having a 15cc dish. That's prolly a question I'll ask the machine shop more about.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Going down to Miller Precision Machine today to chat about my build. They do a lot of Chevy stuff, but also SBF, BBF, ford modular, and some inline stuff, as well as diesel.

Couple pics of their stuff





 

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Discussion Starter #33
Went and talked to the owner, operator, and broom boy. It's just a one man operation. It's one of the cleanest machine shops I've been to, which totals about 15. The only "shop" I could say was cleaner was the Caterpillar factory...

He's been in business for over 20 years, and is on a 2 month backlog, which tells me two things. He has customers waiting in line, which is always good from a business standpoint. It also tells me he's pretty efficient, because there were quite a few engines in there. Since his clientele is mostly race stuff, he offers no warranty on those. "Stock" and truck rebuilds do come with a small warranty. He seemed like a guy that would be fair in dealing with any issues, though.

I told him kind of what I wanted to do, and he was on board. He didn't scoff at 10:1 compression, and figured he could do the long block for around 3k. That's obviously a rough estimate. Charges $65 an hour for shop time, which I think is real reasonable. The job shop i worked at was 90 or 100 an hour. He can do everything but grind cranks and line-hone, which he will sub out.

I showed him the pics of my bores, and he said that's a tell tale sign it got overheated, so the burn-out tag was true. The .040 bore makes him a bit nervous but he won't know until he gets his hands on it. Looks like I'll be pulling that "240" econoline block sooner than later just to be safe.

Overall I was impressed, and am going to give it a go.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
The only ridge in the top of the bores is carbon buildup. I can scratch it off. I measured bores 3 and 4 with telescoping gauges and a micrometer. I measured in 4 directions, at the top and 2/3 the way down the bore. All measured 4.040, with one discarded measurement of 4.041, due to opperator error. Short of actual bore gauges, I have all the measuring tools for this type of work, and I know how to use them. Just don't have the machines or knowledge of engines.

Yeah, it would be nice to have it expedited and done before April, but that won't happen. He doesn't work weekends, because he's out racing. Can't blame a guy for that! He said he likes working alone, because there's fewer headaches, and he doesn't have to baby sit people. Plus, you know that the professional is the one doing the work, and not some hourly worker.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Yeah those two bores were true to size, but those scars are a couple thou deep, which means .050 will be real close, so we will see. That brand new block is tempting, especially because it's not covered in feces. But I like the idea of having an actual Cleveland cast ford block. Only time will tell.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I determined what the extra holes are for on the early head. My example is a C8TE casting. There are four extra holes when compared to an E5TE head.

These said holes are oil drainback passages, and extend completely through the head. Blocks of the same vintage will have provisions for the oil drainback passages running down behind the lifter cover, and through the lifter shelf behind the intake lifter of cylinders 1, 2, 4, and 5.
 

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Discussion Starter #37 (Edited)
You can see both ends of the pen. This is the said extra hole.





Here's where the hole would go through the block. This is my E5TE block.



The pen is a pushrod for reference. The block could have had extra material under the hole in the head, with a passage draining below, probably onto the cam. Or it just drains the head into the lifter valley. Id have to check an older block to figure out.

 

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Discussion Starter #38
Pulled my lifters out, couldn't get #9 or #12 out. They move and spin, but won't come out. Also realized I don't have a way to remove the harmonic balancer, so it'll stay on for its trip to the machine shop.

Flipped it over and pulled the oil pan. Pulled the #2 main bearing cap. Wasn't too bad, but there was a scratch all the way around the crank. #1 rod cap was the same.

Looked at the cam, while turning the engine over, and saw a big ford oval... guess they didn't put a bigger cam in. It does have a steel cam gear though.

There was a light coat of sludge on the bottom of the pan, but nothing too bad.

I also tested the "240" head chambers for CC's. My pipette is in mL, but 1 mL is 1 cc. I fit 76 mL in the chamber... it's one hundred percent a 300 head. Oh well.

I have a feeling I'm going to be pleasantly surprised with the upgrades I'm going to do!
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Well I only assumed it had lower miles, but I'm not sure. I also thought it had a cam in it, and that it was the original engine. I can't believe anything about this thing lol. Though it had DS2, was advertised as a 6" lift, and it's supposedly a four (Though my tires look like I need to drop the TTB to the 6" holes), and I found an unadvertised tru-trac in the d44.

Very glad I decided to go through it completely. The engine is a remanufactured unit, not a rebuild, and I don't know what brand. The only previous owners bought it new, and "restored" it in 2002. Odometer showed about 15k since the indicated mileage at replacement, but it must've rolled over at least once since.

My thoughts on the extra holes is that when they went from pushrod slots to pushrod holes, they gained enough drainback to eliminate those holes, making the head a bit stronger. Just an assumption though.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
My local advance had the HB puller tool already loaned out, so I went about rigging my slide hammer up. I ran a tap though the threaded holes in the balancer, and managed to get two bolts in. My hammer adapter was too big, and the 2/3 jaw puller too small, hence only two bolts. About 30 medium taps and i got the balancer off.

Then I pulled the timing cover off. I marked the mesh of the gears with red dykem, even though it prolly doesn't matter. Then I turned the engine over until I could get to the cam retainer bolts. Then i pulled the old ford cam out, and pressed the gear off it on my quality harbor freight press. The cam and crank gears are both ferrous metal, either steel or iron, and look good. No broken teeth, and slight wear. The cam bearings had a discoloration, then I forgot to actually look at them before putting the cover back on.

I used a better pick and got the two stuck lifters out as well.

From everything I disassembled, I had zero broken bolts!

I hope to get it down to Miller may be tomorrow.
 
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