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Discussion Starter #1
Soooooo.....

I was going to tack this onto an existing thread: "Saginaw Power Steering Conversion 5.8W" But figured I's go separate,

I am in the process of swapping in a 351w to replace my 302 in my '87. During the swap, I picked up a PS/AC bracket for the Saginaw PS pump mostly because I had the old style compressor and could not find the small AC support bracket for that style. I grabbed a bracket from mid 90's van (with the 5,8) and up graded... so I thought.

I am using the accessories from the '87 302. Three or four of the pulleys line up (with the exception of the crank pulley, but that is probably due to the Scat balancer). My problem is the Saginaw bracket itself. The pics below show the issue. This is a dry mock up. The one bolt hole of the bracket that sits over the water pump has a substantial gap. Right now I would say that it is close to 3/8". I figure if I put the water pump bolt in the correct way 馃槓, then there still will be about a 1/4" gap.

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So what is off? Did the engine builder give me an odd timing chain cover? But that would push the water pump pulley out. Did I grab the wrong PS bracket? Or should I just throw a spacer in there and call it a day.
Also, the bracket has the smaller (narrower) bolts for the compressor. Anything out there to keep the compressor lined up?

Lastly I have some heater hose issues, but one thing at a time...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
A spacer it is.... Thanks. BTW LVS, looks like you have a great trip. Will have to catch up at some point.

Now Compressor bolt reducers?

Heater hoses.... LVS, this is the piece I got from you.... The fit is worse that it looks...

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slawson2000, as you mentioned, your Saginaw bracket is off a 95-96 Econoline. The proper configuration is water pump, bolt, (spacer/washer as necessary), bracket, nut. You don't really even need to run a nut on the water pump stud as the three large mounting bolts already secure your p/s pump and a/c bracket to your motor.
 

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dont worry about it. that stud is more of a guide for installing it. some vehicles dont even have threads on that stud, there jsut an alignment pin. i use RPM bolts for my waterpumps and no stud at all. as he said the 3 main bolts in the head do all the work
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Somewhere in the back of my skull, I was wondering about that not running a nut, and maybe even just cutting that part off. It sure would make future servicing of the water pump easier.
What do you think?
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85 Bronco, 309ci I6 w/4bbl, np435, 4" lift, 37" Irok NDs, 4.56 w/ Detroit Locker and tru trac
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I wouldn't cut it.

Many of the v-belt power steering pumps used spacers, up to a few inches long. Just fyi. I've seen the exact same brackets for a Saginaw pump on a 460 and a 351w. One had just a longer bolt and spacer.

The issue, as zainy pointed out is they went to a smaller bolt around 1990 for the ac compressor. A machine shop or specialty hardware store could probably help with sleeves. Or carefully wrap your bolts in tin foil temporarily.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I will probably end up leaving it, but the more I look at the back of the bracket and take in that some uses just had a pin instead of a stud...
I cannot see any benefit to the PS side of the bracket. The AC side, maybe, barely, adding something to downward flex, maybe.
It makes me think seriously about cutting it.
 

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I will probably end up leaving it, but the more I look at the back of the bracket and take in that some uses just had a pin instead of a stud...
I cannot see any benefit to the PS side of the bracket. The AC side, maybe, barely, adding something to downward flex, maybe.
It makes me think seriously about cutting it.
Why not just use a normal bolt in that spot, and remove the stud? Once you cut those supporting ribs, the casting becomes weaker.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
As I said, I will probably leave it and use washers or a spacer.
But looking at the back of the bracket, the ribs are still there after the cut, just the flange that hangs off the bracket that goes to the water pump would be gone. The ribs still travel from the three head bolts out to the compressor and PS pump. The red lines indicate the proposed cut.
BTW, not trying to be difficult, I just enjoy a good discussion.
 

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No worries, not taking it offensively! Honestly, who can take you seriously, with a sombrero covering your manhood in your avatar! That cracks me up every time

I was referring to the rib on the edge, on the left end of the red line in the first pic. Though looking closer, you'd prolly be fine. If you do cut, make sure to round any corners, to relieve any stress cracks that may form. This is especially important on inside corners.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The rib on the front is not much. The ones in the back are just about full depth. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. It would make servicing the water pump a lot easier... I may have to stop thinking of this for a bit.

Anyone else got thoughts on this?
 

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Aye, it would make the WP more accessible, but hopefully that isnt a common need for your engine... lol

Now, before you cut, consider finding the correct bracket for your AC compressor, so you could still sell this one. I'd offer the one I have on the shelf, but it's a small bolt version as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Water pumps have not been common, but usually have presented for a replacement at undesirable times such as the middle of a road trip, holiday season, during a stormy week. You get the idea.

I still like the idea, but it may have sit on it until the first water pump replacement.

I have a '94 that has small bolts on the bracket for the AC, and the compressor came with little locators (think thin hollow dowel pin). This compressor did not. Maybe I will talk with the compressor people.

I may also run to the boneyard and see if there is a different bracket to be had. What models had the larger bolts?
 

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I believe you want the bracket from an 87-89 econoline. @zainyD can confirm.
 

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The only difference between the 87 to around 89 Saginaw brackets and the 90-96 Saginaw brackets is the A/C bolt size.


The only difference between the 90 to around 94 Saginaw brackets and the 95-96 Saginaw brackets is the amount of aluminum webbing for the lowest mounting point we have been discussing. As has been mentioned already, most of the time that stud doesn't even have threading on it. Kingfisher had it right, it's mostly just an alignment pin. Cutting it off would have no ill effects.
don't worry about it. that stud is more of a guide for installing it. some vehicles don't even have threads on that stud, there just an alignment pin. i use RPM bolts for my waterpumps and no stud at all. as he said the 3 main bolts in the head do all the work
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Wow, a lot less webbing on the bracket I have. Kind of surprising. So the one I grabbed is a 95-96?

Well, took a search for a 87-89 van for the thick bolt bracket. None around at the moment. Bummer. It would make things easier. So I looked at the compressor side. Yup, a newer model compressor would work. I will see if I can return the one I have and get a newer one.

Next chapter will be the heater hose hookup... That metal bit don't fit....
 

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if you grabbed a brackert that uses bigger A/C bolts, you can very easily drill out the compressor holes for the bigger bolts.
if you grabbed a bracket with smaller bolts, then jsut drill and tapp it to bigger bolts and get a set from hardware store.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Good point K. I need a call into the AC guys anyway. Return shipping vs taps for the larger bolts, ~ about the same cost (+/-). I need the rest of the stuff anyway, hose, parallel flow condenser, etc. Basically eyeballing a 1990-1993 system with a 95/96 condenser. But that is another issue.

Heater hoses. LVSteve, I think the part you gave me may be a KT84, do you remember? There is no way this thing is gonna fit. I think I need a KT81 - Can someone confirm?

Also, I think there is a metal tube thingy that goes from the water pump over the alternator as well. Am I right or are the hoses now formed to do that?
 
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