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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
302-96 versus 95 header dilemma and y pipe solution? (and it ain't what you think)

hello everyone,

just bought my first truck/4wd/bronco--a 302,96, and it sounded like a hippy's schoolbus. crawled under it (more like walked under it) and the two y-pipe entries into the cat were busted off, and there was a piece of household water-heater sheet metal from the rear of the first cat (no second), all the way to a burned out baby-dick cherry bomb. i replaced the sheet metal with exhaust flex pipe and coat hangered the cat into the busted y pipes. it is better.

now the meat in this sandwich. i have to put a new exhaust on this pig. i'm disabled and cash poor, so i've repeatedly gone hypoglycemic scouring this site and the interweb for info, and i've finally developed a low-budget plan. but there are several holes. maybe you can help plug them.

the basic plan is:
low budget shorty headers
keep stock y pipe
use MagnaFlow 10778 y transition w/reducers
use 3" pypes cat i've already got
3" pipe and slip connectors where needed
Flowmaster 50 Series SUV Performance Muffler(big bucks,but i hate inside noise) or regular delta 50
Magnaflow 15003 Universal Tailpipe-3" and $53 bucks shipped from amazon
some kinda down turn tip

here are the problems:

the headers:
the summits fit the budget, but there are two choices
1) Summit Racing SUM-G9035 which fits up to 1995-$159.95
2) Summit Racing SUM-G9037 which fits 1996-$199.95

WHY TWO DIFFERENT PARTS AND PRICES?

now don't get ahead of me. i have done me research.

i have searched and it seems the 95 and 96 use the same head, so port and bolt pattern is the same.
i know the 96 shifted to obdII, but the two upstream o2 sensors are located in my y pipe and not the headers.
the summit part pics show the egr bung on both models-not needed on the 302-maybe one pic for many headers, or do they actually put them on?

WITH NO DIFFERENCE I CAN SEE, WHY CAN'T THE CHEAPER 95 FIT THE 96?
is the y pipe angle different?
please tell me i can buy the cheaper.


now good news.
i have read of stock y pipe fitment problems with many shorty headers, and i may have found an answer. the summit headers appear to ship with only the head end gaskets and no y pipe gaskets. i did a search on rock auto and came up with a very interesting pic. this is the exhaust set for at least the 95 and 96.

notice the round objects that look to be much like the bassani adapters, so this $10 gasket set may be the answer???

P.S.
i read, many people have problems mating cheap headers to the head.
solution: soak the cheaper, papery gaskets in water before install. this swells and softens the gasket and makes it adaptable to imperfections. i have used this technique and sometimes found the header bolts needed no secondary re-torque (but always check after a few days and heat/cool cycles).
 

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the headers:
the summits fit the budget, but there are two choices
1) Summit Racing SUM-G9035 which fits up to 1995-$159.95
2) Summit Racing SUM-G9037 which fits 1996-$199.95

WHY TWO DIFFERENT PARTS AND PRICES?

QUOTE]

2 things to this difference. I have doen some research on this in the past and what I came up with is 96 are ODB2 while 95 and lower are ODB1. The 96 headers have a bung welded onto them for a 02 sensor, or there was a tube that screwed into that bung. I dont remember which but it was on the PS header that it had this on. Otherwise they are the same. If yors is a 96 then your bettter off geting the expensive one cause by the time you have some one weld in the bung for you its going to cost about the same in the end.
 

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Chillin on the Gulf Coast
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The only difference should be the O2 sensor bungs. If you dont need em them buy the cheaper ones if you want. Just remember that if you need to change out the stock Y pipe that your chopping up for this then you will have to pay someone to put in new O2 sensor bungs later.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The only difference should be the O2 sensor bungs. If you dont need em them buy the cheaper ones if you want. Just remember that if you need to change out the stock Y pipe that your chopping up for this then you will have to pay someone to put in new O2 sensor bungs later.



i'm a knob, i felt good enough to go out and check the headers from the top today, and this time with a very bright flashlight. in my shape, i have problems climbing the damn thing. i got smart and used a chair to stand on. anyway, i had only seen the pipe from the bottom, the o2 sensors are in the header collector. i'm not used to looking at cast-iron stock manifolds from the bottom up (they ugly). i wouldn't have posted untill i felt well enough to view from the top, but i started buying parts during research and pulled the credit card out too much. i'm a knob. mea culpa.

but both header pics show the bung. i wonder if, for ease of manufacture, they put the bung on all, and then only thread it on the 1996?. i've got a new question, and a $29 drill press, thread cutters and a $60 stick welder from harbor freight (all bought dirt cheap before our place in the world economy, and the dollar-tanked. i've just hardly used them).




:banghead IF anyone owns 1987-1995 summit shorty headers, do they have a bung on the collector?




thanks for the replies.
 

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Chillin on the Gulf Coast
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i'm not used to looking at cast-iron stock manifolds from the bottom up (they ugly).
but both header pics show the bung. i wonder if, for ease of manufacture, they put the bung on all, and then only thread it on the 1996?. i've got a new question, and a $29 drill press, thread cutters and a $60 stick welder from harbor freight (all bought dirt cheap before our place in the world economy, and the dollar-tanked. i've just hardly used them).
The stock manifolds can look pretty good if you clean them up. When I swapped in my 96 motor I reused the stock manifolds. I had a media blaster and used it, aircraft paint stripper and naval jelly to clean em up. Then painted them black with high temp header paint. They came out great. Sucked blasting them though. The factory paint is probably still there on yours, just has a thin coat of rust over the top. If yours are not cracked and you want to save a few bucks for now, take them off and have a machine shop blast them. Them clean up and antisieze the stock hardware.
I am not sure about the summit racing headers, but you can call and ask them. They are supposed to be pretty knowledgeable about that stuff and willing to help.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The stock manifolds can look pretty good if you clean them up. When I swapped in my 96 motor I reused the stock manifolds. I had a media blaster and used it, aircraft paint stripper and naval jelly to clean em up. Then painted them black with high temp header paint. They came out great. Sucked blasting them though. The factory paint is probably still there on yours, just has a thin coat of rust over the top. If yours are not cracked and you want to save a few bucks for now, take them off and have a machine shop blast them. Them clean up and antisieze the stock hardware.
I am not sure about the summit racing headers, but you can call and ask them. They are supposed to be pretty knowledgeable about that stuff and willing to help.

plus, since i'm not exactly full of youthful vigor, it might be a good idea to split the job into two parts- first the exhaust, and second the headers. i'll never get the job done if i try to do both. i haven't had a working vehicle in years, and i don't want to put this one out of service for days with a half finished job.

now why didn't i think of calling summit. i guess i'm gun shy about trusting customer service. i'll give it a go-- if they have a tech department. but i prefer a report from an eye witness. i remember what the boys in recon would say, "if i didn't see it--it didn't happen.", rather extreme but instructive. although it didn't seem extreme at the time.

what is naval jelly? some kind of acid? and a good tip on the anti seize, i know it is imperative when mating steel and aluminum, but does it work long term at exhaust temps?

i wonder how the stock exhaust manifolds really flow? as far as cast iron goes, i've seen a lot worse in the design department. it's just that the primaries are so short, and the exhaust gas has to make a 180* turn at its moment of highest velocity. i did some serious trolling on the web for head flow numbers, and they were hard enough to find. finding flow numbers for after-market headers, much like mufflers, are like hen's teeth. they don't like to let those numbers get out. a million dollar b/s marketing campaign could be wrecked by the truth. can't have that. when you look at brand descriptions in catalogs, they never give numbers. they'd all rather suggest that their miracle technology makes all the difference, and is worth paying twice the price.

i'll try to get off my ass and post some pics of the pig in the noobie section. it's in good shape, looks like a garage queen that someone parked when it started showing expensive symptoms of old age. i got it cheap-now i have to pay for and perform the cures.


thanks for the thoughts.

frog.
 

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Chillin on the Gulf Coast
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Naval jelly is a chemical rust remover. I use it to clean up rusty parts before I do whatever with em. Google it. Good stuff.
 

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From my reading on FSB & other sites, some folks don't like the extra heat headers add to the engine compartment, having to replace the headers over time, and sometimes being hard to get the exhaust to run over the cross member and around the t-case/tranny. Seems like shorties are somewhat easier to get hooked up than long-tubes. There's an ultimate exhaust thread, IIRC in the 80-96 section that might help. But looks like from your plan you have read that one. Unless your stock manifolds need to be replaced, it seems like a waste of money to buy headers unless you are going to build the engine to turn some serious RPMs. Normal driving, off-roading, etc won't benefit nearly enough to justify the cost of headers. If the appearance bothers you, as said above, sandblast & paint makes 'em look pretty nice. A good y pipe is supposed to benefit as much or more than headers. So good luck, have a Merry Christmas, and thank you for your service.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
From my reading on FSB & other sites, some folks don't like the extra heat headers add to the engine compartment, having to replace the headers over time, and sometimes being hard to get the exhaust to run over the cross member and around the t-case/tranny. Seems like shorties are somewhat easier to get hooked up than long-tubes. There's an ultimate exhaust thread, IIRC in the 80-96 section that might help. But looks like from your plan you have read that one. Unless your stock manifolds need to be replaced, it seems like a waste of money to buy headers unless you are going to build the engine to turn some serious RPMs. Normal driving, off-roading, etc won't benefit nearly enough to justify the cost of headers. If the appearance bothers you, as said above, sandblast & paint makes 'em look pretty nice. A good y pipe is supposed to benefit as much or more than headers. So good luck, have a Merry Christmas, and thank you for your service.

i guess therein lies the question. are shorty headers, and the spark plug issues they cause, justified over stock manifolds when still using flow-restrictive stock heads? flow numbers on both would settle that one. i believe i've bookmarked the numbers on the e7 heads, but i couldn't find anything on the stock manifolds. i've noticed i've got good grunt at low rpm's, and i can work the 5 speed to control the power band, but it is good to have more at higher rpm's when passing, or trying to get out of the way of something imminent and dangerous--especially with this lift kit and taller tires, and i've no idea if any po put in the gears to match.

i haven't done any 4x4 yet, i've got a cracked transfer case, and can't run it in 4x yet.


thanks,
frog.


P.S.
something i found about stock exhaust manifolds: the years may not match, but the concepts and shapes do.
http://www.mre-books.com/sa69/sa69_7.html
http://www.mre-books.com/interchange/interchange8.html
 
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