351w - Increased torque by advancing cam using new Crank sprocket chain that has optional 8 deg advance keyway.

BigBlue 94 said:

Advancing a cam 4° is popular for the 300-6 crowd. It effectively changes the dynamic compression ratio due to the valve events happening sooner. This also leaves more exhaust gases in the chamber, so a well-scavenging exhaust will also be of benefit.

It can cause detonation issues though, so listen closely.

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Thank you very much Big Blue for sharing the info I didn’t know!
My 96 351w OBD1 stock roller cam does Not have a knock sensor from what I could find out so I have been listening carefully. I even drove a bit with the dog house open a bit so I could listen for knocking under different conditions and heavy throttle and on hills.

*Q. What mpg changes do the 300 ci 6 cylinder crowd experience, do you know?

My van is pretty much stock is what I go for with minor common sense win-win mods only.

I want to post some questions about possible adding short headers if I can find a maker for them.
Other than that, I don’t think there’s anything else I can simply easily affordable do to increase engine performance or mpg.

Better scavenging eh.. to create like a pulsing vacuum in the exhaust to help pull in the intake gasses.
From what I’ve read, seems the factory exhaust and manifolds are designed to scavenge..
Maybe shorties would improve things as well.
My 96 factory exhaust seems to be different or better than some of the earlier ones in that it is a dual exhaust all the way to behind the rear pass tire it exists.
But it has one cat and muffler but two pipes going in and out of them..
So it seems to me the only bottleneck of real concern may be the factory exhaust manifold.

*2nd Q. Can you shed any light/info on this?
Thank you

Kingfish999 said:

on a stock engine doing a timing chain i usually advance the cam 2-4*

general rule of thumb is advance the cam helps low end torque and retarding the cam give high end HP.

not to mention IIRC the stock cam is retarted like 4* or some like that anyways. adding slack doesnt help either

there was an Engine Master episode that went into dyno testing different cam timing settings as well as explaining some of it.

the real point of having all those timing setting is when 'degreeing a cam' you can get the cam timing correct

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Cool thanks Kingfish!

I know I’ve read that advancing moves the torque and hp peaks to a lower rpm.
I believe it’s about 300 rpm move down for the peaks for a 4 cam degrees advance.
I guess as long as when you redline the engine on full throttle, it’ll still accelerate up to the next gear shift rpm and shift, then that’s fine.

Well so when you do a water pump, do you often go deeper and do the cam sprocket advance at that time?

Any experience on changes in mpg with advancing?

With advancing the cam timing, increases the compression ratio since the intake valves close sooner.
We all know that higher compression engines have more power and mpg but going too high requires pricey high octane gas.
High compression is quite a bit why our Diesel engines get more torque and mpg as well as Mazda’s new Mazda gas engine-forget what it’s called.. oh I think it’s Sky X… or

When emission standards hit in like 1972 and they retarded the crank sprocket timing to reduce pollution, I wonder which pollution it reduces.. HC or CO or Nit oxide … hmm

BigBlue 94 said:

Most guys in the 300 crowd do the advance for power, not milage. But with power, comes increased milage, if driven with economy in mind.

Didnt read close enough to see you have a 96 351w with SD/OBD1 like me. I have a 96 F350 with one. Im running summit shorty headers, a custom 2.25 into 3" y-pipe with oxygen sensor, and a flowmaster deltaflow 50 series muffler. Upon doing the exhaust, and reintroducing the oxygen sensor to the mix, i picked up 2mpg and a bit of power. Thats with 33" tires, 4.10 gears, and a C6. I left the EGR hooked up as well, but the rest of the smog system is gone.

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Oh wow you have the same year and engine that’s very helpful!
I thought I was getting the obd2 since it was a 96 and had the obd2 port under the dash. But since the gvw was over the 9k or whatever the cut off for the obd2 requirement was, it’s an obd1 hybrid.

You say Sd/obd1? What is the sd part stand for?

Wow that’s a great mpg pickup!

Unlike you, I do still have the OEM smog pump.. when it breaks, I probably won’t replace it.
I did see a YouTube video on how to delete it. I’ll probably do that since I don’t need a second alternator set up.

interesting you have the C6 transmission. I thought they all used the 4AOD like mine has.

Please tell me on the headers:
How is the heat a problem? Did you get them ceramic coated or wrapped?
This could be a problem for the van doghouse!
I know one of the clamp rivets by the gas pedal on my dog house gets hot to the touch of I’m not wearing socks.

Also how did the headers effect the exhaust sound and sound level?

Listings don’t usually show a header for the van but they do for the trucks with the same year and engine..perhaps because of the dog house not taking the heat.

I think I previously only found one shorty header that says it’ll fit. I have to relook.

jimtmcdaniels said:

Oh you mean this in my pic I just took?
That causes a restriction, it does look restrictive?
What’s it for they put it there!?

I’d love to remove it if it’s depremental.
What do I replace it with though?

I think some have complained about the small size of the air filter but since I keep it clean, I figure it’s fine.

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BigBlue 94 said:

Truck headers may fit, Idk. JBA makes 5.0 headers for vans, and hooker and hedman make longtubes for the 75-91 generation. The 5.0 would fit but may not mate up to the y-pipe. For trucks the 5.0 headers dont fit a 5.8 y-pipe. 5.0 also doesnt have the EGR provision on the passenger side header.

Wrap is not bad, though maybe so on shorties. Ive only done longtubes. Used DEI Lava Wrap.

Have you removed the intake restrictors? The dual cone thing just upstream from the air filter box?

As a side note, I had a catalytic converter stolen yesterday off my superduty

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jimtmcdaniels said:

Oh you mean this in my pic I just took?
That causes a restriction, it does look restrictive?
What’s it for they put it there!?

I’d love to remove it if it’s depremental.
What do I replace it with though?

I think some have complained about the small size of the air filter but since I keep it clean, I figure it’s fine.

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jimtmcdaniels said:

Oh you mean this in my pic I just took?
That causes a restriction, it does look restrictive?
What’s it for they put it there!?

I’d love to remove it if it’s depremental.
What do I replace it with though?

I think some have complained about the small size of the air filter but since I keep it clean, I figure it’s fine.

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Sorry, HERE is the pic:
Pic

And here are pics of my oem dual exhaust.

For theft reduction, I painted the cat shield with AutoZone VHT high temp(no so high that requires baking) chevy engine bright orange/red and riveted custom ebay dog tags with my vin number onto it. Then I wrapped with walmart steel cable with cable clamps and small barb wire from ebay.

jimtmcdaniels said:

And here are pics of my oem dual exhaust.

For theft reduction, I painted the cat shield with AutoZone VHT high temp(no so high that requires baking) chevy engine bright orange/red and riveted custom ebay dog tags with my vin number onto it. Then I wrapped with walmart steel cable with cable clamps and small barb wire from ebay.

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BigBlue 94 said:

The tough thing about the header wrap is getting the roll through the individual tubes. I eventually unrolled it and was passing the whole 50ft length through.

I dont see a pic... Oh wait there it is lol! Yes thats the piece. Its likely there to quiet the intake down. They do that type of crap. The f-series has a much less restricted type. I dont know what else would fit there. Nothing is needed there honestly, but it will be sucking warmer air without a duct to the core support. I doubt any f-series duct would fit. Maybe the 4.9L/7.5L version with modification. The 85 and 86 f150 with 5.0 had a duct that might work. @robbz28 do you still have a factory air box inlet duct? Or a pic?

Ill keep an eye out at the junkyards for something.

The air filter in the econoline is the same as the F-series. Its plenty big. Filter type depends on driving conditions. If you are like me and drive 5 miles of dusty dirt roads every day, a paper or oiled gauze filter work best. But if you are on pavement 99% of the time, a dryflow synthetic filter is best for the added flow.

If you havent gathered it, im a fan of vans. Had a 99 e250 for a while myself. Would love to find an econoline with no rust and make it 4x4.

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Thank you for the info very much for caring!

Now that you mention it does look restrictive compared to the later hoses!
Even though I know it's too common, it's still a bit of a shock when the makers violate our trust that they are designing and sizing things properly to work together for a well rounded performing vehicle.
So then I think, no it's not too much of a restriction or they wouldn't have put it there.
Then I think, no it looks like one and you said it's commonly known as one.

Well I'll remove it from the front of the filter box and see how it sounds just to figure out how much sound it does and see how it drives/breaths better in full rpm's.

I do go to the upullnpay yard from time to time. I'll have to look at the 460 and see what it has for the air intake.
I would want something that looks presentable.
I'm generally not a fan of cold air return kits. I don't like how they can suck water puddles driven through, easier.
I watch Scotty Kilmer on youtube who says they aren't good.

You like vans as well, cool!
I'm 56 yo now and remember a bit of how vans were so cool in the 70's and I see youtube videos of shows.
Mine was a 15 pass EB van from a church originally I think. I've removed but 2 of the 3 person bench seats and reoriented them side ways staggered facing each other, keeping the oem plastic wall panels.
Which do reduce room some since they were designed to hide all the seat belt retractors and the 2nd havoc system.
I'd like to turn some of the pockets into little storage here and there.

I want the van for friends road trips and fun trip and a party light camping van.
I want to put some subwoofers in the small barn door and an amp and led lighting and such.

As for 4x4, it's a bit over rated seems to me. Well I mean, I don't need it and it can add so much weight and other headaches and expense..

Just recently I helped a dear friend move from a mountain house he was renting.
Well he had a very steep and deep rutted dirt drive way to the paved road and I took the van down it and it made it right back up several times.
Didn't bottom out, the e350 sits up higher than the e150.
Pulled better, slipped less than his Jeep Wrangler. He was very shocked. I know the chassis is from a truck but it pulled up the the hill very well.
Perhaps only because the extended body big ass rear adds a good amount of weight over the rear tires.

I say don't get 4x4 till you try 4x2 (or 4x2 with some kind of locker) but of course for extreme use 4x4 is gonna be needed.

BigBlue 94 said:

That is the standard heavy GVWR gas engine exhaust setup. Its a pretty good setup. My 96 f350 was just like that, but hacked up with no cat.

Barbed wire is a good choice. Hard to cut when it flops around all over the place. Electrified razor wire would be better. Ive been pondering it and I think the best option is to weld on some 1 ton sized axle u-bolts. Weld so there is a bolt part every 90° around the cat. U-bolts are hardened and will kill a sawzall blade fast. I know, as ive had to cut them in the junkyard, where they dont allow grinders. Ill go through at least 5-6 blades just cutting the u-bolts on a solid front axle.

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Thank you
I had to just do something so I could sleep with more piece of mind at nite with all the cat thefts in the news and the van so easy to crawl under.
I figure the barb wire is hard to work around when they are strung out on drugs and nervous of getting caught!
It wasn't super easy but I was able to snake the steel cable through and under the cat heat shield and then over some frame members above.
I did look at razor wire but the odds would be that I would get hurt from it sooner than later lol
Electrified eh!? lol make a good video that would!
The vin tags were dirt cheap as well on ebay. Had them put like "Theft recovery vin #.....".
I like that I can take my time and remove the cable and barb wire if I ever have to because it probably will be me as fate would have it lol

I can't vision how exactly you'll attach the U bolts to the vehicle but that is what they advocate in the news(welding to the frame) if it can't be shielded with like a big metal plate.
I thought the exhaust is suppose to move some and be insulated with rubber for sound and vibration insulation from the passengers so I didn't want to try welding-which I haven't done much of and none of my vehicles.

I didn't know those U bolts are hardened, good to know!

BigBlue 94 said:

Ugh stay away from Scott kilmer! Though I ageee to stay away from "cold air kits". The F and E-series already have a true cold air intake. And most CAI kits are not cold air at all lol!

460 vans have the same airbox setup as yours. The 460 and 300 trucks have an inlet that is lower, right behimd the headlight. Its the best unless fording 4ft high water...

I had my 99 e250 up on Rollins Pass in CO. Its a fairly nasty road requiring ground clearance. Normally its a bit over an hour drive for the 14 mile one way journey. Made it once in 35 minutes, in a midnight thunderstorm. That was a rush... Van took it like a champ. But ive also been stuck in my own field before and I like the way a 4x4 van looks. My 99 was bare bones delivery style, and just the shorty with a v6. If you search threads here for econoline you will find my thread.

On the cat protection, I meant laying the u-bolts on the exhaust and welding them to it. So to cut the pipe, they have to cut 4 bolts.

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Stay away for Scotty, but wasn’t he always the go to guy for Captain Kirk when the ship was in trouble !? LMAO
Who do you like to watch and learn from on YouTube?

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The 460 has the same small restrictive size air inlet wow..
It was wise though that the engineers placed the inlet high because of driving through flooded water that can hydro lock permanently kill your engine, that’s a must.
Some vehicles have it way too low..

I think the owners manual says not to drive in water higher then the wheel’s center hub.

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I did see a demolition derby on YouTube had some full size extended body vans going in a circle track over a motor cross mounds.
And they really were solid, took the pounding getting air born and slamming back down but they did get stuck at times on their long rear over hang.

Glad yours has proven a champ.
Yes I can see it getting stuck, I’m not sure mine would be good in mud or ice but it does seem the eb adds game changing weight over those drive wheels.

Just be cautious with being drawn to the looks of something can contradict what works in this reality and then reality bites us, I know from experience lol.

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I and my 2 dogs and others have trouble getting in and out of this stock van.
I’m fairly surprised Ford made this e350 club wagon so high and was able to sell it to families and churches like this…
I can’t imagine getting in with the extra height of 4 x 4.
Plus the roll over hazzard the eb has with its oem height already.
Of course that hazzard is mainly when heavy loaded, causing the rear to dip and sway, especially during a blow out on the highway.
I’ve seen some rolled over vans in the salvage yard with roof damage….

I was concerned and so replaced all the old oem shocks with Monroe’s best and for the rear’s I got the Monroe’s with outside coil load helpers that don’t come into play and stiffen the ride until a heavy load is applied(or perhaps a rear blow out!).
I once had Monroe’s air helper rear shocks on a ranger pickup and I hated adding and removing air was a pain.
But I did work them hard hauling heavy dirt.

These coils are so much more automatic, I don’t even have to think about it.

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Of course there’s always step side rails to help get in and out.
Perhaps I’ll put some side rails on, I’m resisting it for now.
I see them hit things or rust or plus the extra weight it adds.

I guess Ford really solved the height thing with the transits the engineers really focused on entry ease.
Perhaps some day I’ll be driving a transit instead of the econoline.
But I don’t buy any vehicle new or slightly used.

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Your in CO too cool!
I live at 6k feet here in Colo Spgs co.
I do pull my old boat to Lake Pueblo some in the summer with the van, which is a straight drive on the highway down to 5k elevation.
I also want to try Chatfield by Denver.

I don’t have any desire to pull it up and back down those steep mountains plus those lakes are like too cold to swim and for fishing only really.

I do have the factory tow package with engine oil cooler and transmission cooler.

People think a v8 351 can pull really heavy things but in this eb 6,000 lbs van, the manual says(at sea level), not to exceed 12,000 Lbs total including the trailer.
The boat & trailer are 3,200 lbs so with some people and stuff in the van, it’s getting close to the 12k total.

I want to add electric brakes this winter to the trailer I see Amazon has kits for $200.

I’m content that I don’t have the 460 because of the gas mileage difference and I don’t think I’ll ever pull heavier than I do.
I usually go for the biggest engine in a vehicle especially for this altitude but the way these big vehicles suck the gas…. It adds up $$$.

My hitch is rated only 5k anyways.
I think the 460 would have the same transmission but probably a heavier duty rear axle.