[92Custom]

Well, my 302 probably at least needs a valve job. If I'm gonna pull the heads, I may as well just go aftermarket aluminum. If I'm gonna go aftermarket aluminum heads, I might as well get a cam. if I do that, I might as well freshen up the bottom end, too. And on and on. So why not build a SEFI 400 and put that in the 302's place? Sure, it'll guzzle fuel, but it won't be quite as bad as a 460, it's basically a Cleveland motor engineered for truck duty, so aftermarket aluminum cleveland heads are a win. TwEECer and the SEFI system from a Fox Body, help from TMeyer, etc....we can really do this! The only real issues left are....

Accessories.....do I have to use the circa-70s V-belt nightmare, or is there a factory style serpentine setup I could use? Could I make brackets to mount my 302's accessories onto the front of the 400 and run the serpentine setup like that? I don't want an obnoxious showy billet setup, I just want function.

Will it mount? I recall reading that the 335 series motors and the 385 series motors share motor mounts, ie I'd have to get the engine crossmember and mounts from a 460 truck and put them on my Bronco frame. Is this correct?

Transmissions.....I'm a manual-guy. I know the 400 has the big block transmission bolt pattern. Could a ZF5 for a 460 bolt right up to the 400? I've read something about not enough pilot bearing contact with that setup, but nobody else verified.



I'll probably keep adding questions as I start getting into the 400 I got for the cost of an oil pump. If this can't be done, I guess I need to find a roller ready 351 block and get to work on it....but I'd really rather have the 400.

Also, those with experience, feel free to point out errors in my ways and thoughts...or lack thereof.

 

[offroadkarter]

Why not a 351W, since that'd swap right in and be better then a 400 in alot of ways?

 

[raleigh]

If you are talking about the M block, then no a Zf will not work. You could go with a NV4500 though.
There are a few mods to do to the trans to make it work, JBG sells a kit that has all of the needed materials, except the transmission that is!

 

[Andrew James]

Don't try talking him out of it, Sean has been wanting this since I met him.

 

[chromo79]

Chromo says:


Do what you like, and post pics.

However, consider a few things:

Why is this combo not being used already?
Why is the 335 series engine so undesirable, or in fairness, not very popular?
Cost VS performance gains.
Weight VS performance
Why not a 408 Stroker based upon the Windsor?


Without trying to be a nay-sayer, this sounds like a project that will never leave the ground, and can be one of those projects that ends up "for sale" in a short period of time.

Cant give you personal opinions here, but take some of the above things into consideration, and you might find that this idea looks better on paper than it really is.
There is more to this project than meets the eye, and the concept makes sense, but there are far better options out there for equal or less money.

 

[92Custom]

Because a 351 is...erm...well....everyone has a 351. It's a backup, but on paper a 400 has more aftermarket potential for a reliable, powerful, torqtastic engine under less stress.

 

[92Custom]

The 400 itself has been done with great success. Jopes and Shaker666 both have reliable SEFI units. They're not used because most guys want to just jump to a 460 and be done if they want power.

It's an issue related to a lack of aftermarket parts in general compared to other options and teh fact that, from the factory, these things were big boat anchors.

A 400 horsepower 400 is going to be far more streetable and daily drivable than a 400 horsepower 351W, and a stroker kit for a W block is insane on cost. I want an engine that can rev like my 302 wants to but also makes gobs of low end torque.

On weight....we're still much lighter than a 460, and going to aluminum heads alone will shave off quite a few pounds. In the end, it shouldn't really weigh that much more than the current all iron 302 does.



I think it comes down to it being a challenge.

 

[Gacknar]

So why not build a SEFI 400 and put that in the 302's place?

You ask why not, I ask why would you want to put a "M" engine in anything it didn't already come in?

They are terribly unpopular engines, poorly sported by the aftermarket, and heavy as all get out for there displacement.

 

[raleigh]

The 400 does have a lot of low end torque, I have a 6" lift on 37" tire with stock gearing (3.55:1) and I still start in 2nd gear with no issues.

Gawd what a gas guzzler though!

 

[Gacknar]

Don't try talking him out of it, Sean has been wanting this since I met him.

So did I, to the point where many years ago I had gathered two complete 400's in order to do the swap.

Then I actually did some research and decided to stick with the Windsor family.

 

[alaskan155]

why not a 351w with/or without a stroker kit(to 408w)
or the 351 Cleveland(351C), small block engine mounts and trans bellhousing, and a tad more support.

I would do either of those before a 351/400m

 

[92Custom]

The 400 is basically a 351C with more stroke and bigger bearings. And big block transmission pattern. A 408w stroker kit costs enough to make it not much better than the 400.

 

[JfB_93]

Kinda harder to find a 351c, they were only made IIRC from 70ish to around 74, the 400 was made in 74 to around mid 82, the first year 400 has a dual bellhousing pattern, for the "Small Block" tranny FMX and the "Big Block" trannies very rare as it was probably a little less than or right a 1 year thing only. I think a 400 in a 92 would be cool, I haven't seen it before, I love the "M" block motors just watch out for all the haters who say go 460 for more power and torque and have fun:thumbup.

 

[impalaslayer]

i wana say that the 351/400m share the same bolt pattern at the 460 but i may be wrong.

 

[TravisITGuy]

i wana say that the 351/400m share the same bolt pattern at the 460 but i may be wrong.

yes they do

 

[TS 90F150]

The 400 itself has been done with great success. Jopes and Shaker666 both have reliable SEFI units. They're not used because most guys want to just jump to a 460 and be done if they want power.

It's an issue related to a lack of aftermarket parts in general compared to other options and teh fact that, from the factory, these things were big boat anchors.

A 400 horsepower 400 is going to be far more streetable and daily drivable than a 400 horsepower 351W, and a stroker kit for a W block is insane on cost. I want an engine that can rev like my 302 wants to but also makes gobs of low end torque.

On weight....we're still much lighter than a 460, and going to aluminum heads alone will shave off quite a few pounds. In the end, it shouldn't really weigh that much more than the current all iron 302 does.



I think it comes down to it being a challenge.

The 400M makes lots of torque due to its stroke. A 408 windsor will have the same stroke. The stroked windsor will be much cheaper overall and has better aftermarket support.

With that said do what you want, anything can be done given enough time and money. Of course that is the two key words, TIME & MONEY. With the use of aftermarket heads for either engine combination will give you all the hp and torque you can need and probably want. You will need to figure out the accessories brackets and drive. You will also need to do motor mounts and possibly transmounts. A tuned computer won't care if the 400+ cubic inches are windsor or 335 series. Exhaust will probably be an issue with the 335 series, although headers for the early 80s F series and broncos should work if they are still available. I would guess a true cleveland to be an issue here since the deck height on those are different from the windsor or the 335 series.

Good luck with your decision. If you go windsor you'll go overbudget, if you go 335 series don't bother with a budget. lol

tim

 

[clifton l]

As far as exhaust go's, I have done some lookin around for shorty style headers for my 351m and havent found anything yet.

I believe they still make the longtubes.:shrug but not real sure.

and we all know longtubes in our late gen trucks isnt quite doable (not a direct bolt on thats for sure)

Good luck tho:thumbup

 

[jopes]

SO really Whats with all the no aftermarket hate for the 400.

What do you want? Aluminum heads? Got them. Cams? yup. Shorty headers, got those too. stroker kits, yup those too. roller valve train, those can be had as well.

I just don't get it when people say there is no aftermarket for them.

 

[jopes]

You ask why not, I ask why would you want to put a "M" engine in anything it didn't already come in?

They are terribly unpopular engines, poorly sported by the aftermarket, and heavy as all get out for there displacement.

see above post, and weight. umm 50 lbs is nothing. http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/engine.html

 

[Gacknar]

Jopsey, you and yous don't count. :toothless