Junkyard is the best place to go. M engines are considered by most the worst engines ever made, and Ford put them in every V8 car and light truck in the 70's. So they are everywhere. eBay is always a good place to look, as are swap meets. I suggest you get yourself a Ford engine book from www.motorbooks.com that identifies casting numbers so you know what you are getting.
You can always get Cleveland heads as well. They will fit, but you will need an intake manifold spacer inorder for them to work. The spacer is an easy find, and the clevo heads are much better (less smog). There are 4 main clevo heads.
2v open chamber: pretty much the same thing you have right now. small valves, small ports, low compression ratio. might as well get M heads, easier fit. skip these.
2v closed chamber (aussie): these heads are from austrailia, where the cleveland was used more. larger valves, better flow, higher compression ratio. i would avoid these as well, esp with a 400, you will be around 10.5 to 1 even with large dished clevo pistons. so skip these too.
4v closed chamber: large valves, large ports, high cr. also cost more because lots of clevo guys use them. skip these.
4v open chamber: large valves, good flow, lower cr. ahh, now we are talking. these will have just about the same bottom end as the 2v's, but your top end will scream now. if you want to use clevo heads, these are your ticket.
so: either get stock M heads, or get cleveland 4v open chamber heads (which will need a spacer)
there are a few places that sell rebuilt M engine heads, but you can easily get yours rebuilt at a local machine shop for cheap.
where can i get a spacer and what do they look like? I think i might go with the cleveland 4v's but who and where do i order them from...sorry about all the stupid questions but i am still learning about this stuff.n IF i cant find anything or decide to not go with the clev's how much do used 400m heads nun for at a junk yard?
when you say 351cleveland heads do you mean stock ones off a 351cleveland or aftermarket? I would like to get new heads but if i have to goto a junkyard i will. I get paid tommorow so im gonna take a run upto the junkyard and see what they want for 400 heads and see what they want for 4v clev heads.I think i might go with 400 heads though cause i have a edelbrock performer intake and i got headers so i dont know if the headers would line up with the holes on the 351 cleveland heads and i dunno if the intake will fit. I know this is a stupid question but what is the differences between some of these motors?, is a 351w and 351c the same block? :shrug
No, that is not a good price. You should be able to buy a complete 351m/400 engine for that price. The headers will work with the cleveland heads. You do not need a spacer if you wish to use your existing manifold, BUT if you get the 4v heads, you would want a better manifold, which would have to be a Cleveland manifold. So if you want to run a cleveland manifold on your M engine (no matter which head) you would need a spacer.
When I am talking about Cleveland heads, not aftermarket heads. Most of the aftermarket heads are aluminium and quite pricey. The difference in the block is that the M series have a taller deck height. Internals cannot be swapped either. The 351w is completely different from the 351c.
You keep forgetting that you already have a set of heads. If you decide to go with the 400 heads, just get yours rebuilt. Junkyard ones will have to be rebuilt anyway, might as well start with yours and save yourself $100. Believe me, as dirty as they are, a machine shop can clean them. Bring them in, have them inspected, cleaned, and checked for cracks.
Also, if you want to get 400 heads, ask how much for 351m heads. Same heads, but 351m's are easier to find, they might not know the difference and be cheaper.
so wait squatty... I didnt quite get ya on your first paragraph. If I use my edelbrock performer with stock cleveland heads do I still need a spacer? And your saying I can use A 351C Intake too? damn keep giving input and suggestions you know alot about this stuff.....thanks
So if I go with Cleveland 4v's and a weiand Intake will it be more powerful than clevelnad 4v with performer intake? how much do used cleveland 4v's run for? and am i supposed to look for acertain year engine to take em off? I am mostly replacing my heads cause when i tryed to take off the stock exhaust manifold i broke all the bolts off in the heads and dont wanna get em drilled and i want more power.
If you use M heads and an M manifold, you do not need a spacer.
If you use M heads and a Clevo manifold, you need a spacer.
If you use Clevo heads and an M manifold, you don not need a spacer.
If you use Clevo heads and a Clevo manifold, you need a spacer.
$50 each for 4v open chamber Clevo's is a good price.
The performer and the weiand are pretty much the same. Any alum dual plane manifold will do fine.
There were only 4 years of clevo's made, and any year will do, as long as you get 4v and OPEN chambers. The casting numbers you should be looking for are D1ZE-DA and D1ZE-GA. Make sure you get Open chamber heads. These will have circle shaped chambers around the valves on the side that mounts to the block. Closed chamber heads will have a D shaped chamber. If you get the closed chamber heads, you will have too much compression for the street.
sorry for being a annoying question asker but do you have a pic of the cleveland 4v open chambers? i asked the junkyard and they said there not gonna search for stuff like that they said i can look in the yard so i need to know what to get. thanks