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1979 Bronco Ranger XLT, 400m engine, C6 trans, D44 front with Dick Cepek manual hubs
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Discussion Starter #523
Wow! You've made a ton of progress every week. Looks good. 👍

As for not moving in any gear, be sure to check that the transfer case is in gear. It's pretty common to have the t-case in neutral & feel like a transmission problem.
sure, I moved the lever through all gears.
something strange I did not have before:

When I put trans into gear (R or D or 1 or 2) the tacho pointer rises a bit - up to 20 mph.... even the car was standing still.
What does this indicate? Only that the speedo drive is turned, but that would mean something is turning in the transfer case, correct?

Did not have this with the old engine, but the engine "only" gives power through converter as before basically (C6 does not know there is now a 460 instead of a tired 400)
 

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Premium Member
1979 Bronco Ranger XLT, 400m engine, C6 trans, D44 front with Dick Cepek manual hubs
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967 Posts
Discussion Starter #524
Man hate you may have to pull the transmission. If I have to do it again for issues I’m going to buy a new from MonsterTransmission

edited: my friend has used them for all his transmissions.

Ford C6 Transmission, Rebuilt C6 Transmission, Buy Ford C6 Transmissions
Thats the idea, if my simple logic with the trans cooler hose does not help (or if oil is flowing there) then I would drain oil from trans and verify I did not do anything wrong, when I changed the neutral safety swtich o-ring. I did this in August last year, and had the trans "open" for some time. had to take filter and valve body down, did not shake or turn valve body, hence I wonder what I could have done wrong.

But if this is really unclear I will buy the monster trans for 1200 dollar and have to organize a cheap core in US to be sent to them not to pay 500 bucks for core charge.
Then have to pay another big airfreight (which I really hate) that may be close to 1000 dollars..... so all a mess, and basically totally unneeded as it was ok before.

Maybe I have to take all this to have a driver finally.
But the front axle is not taken care of, except I drained the cappucino oil and replaced it with fresh trans oil.
 

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Driving Stuff Henry Built
-90 xlt, 351w, e4od, man 1356, 3.55, sag, warn hubs, 35s. -73, 400, np435, d20j twin, 35s
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8,495 Posts
When I put trans into gear (R or D or 1 or 2) the tacho pointer rises a bit - up to 20 mph.... even the car was standing still.
What does this indicate? Only that the speedo drive is turned, but that would mean something is turning in the transfer case, correct?
So the speedometer shows 20 mph when you put it into gear? Normally a mechanical speedo drive connects into the transfer case on a 4x4. If the speedo moves, it sounds like the transmission & transfer case are both rotating, but somehow the output shaft of the transfer case isn't moving.

Which t-case do you have? What is the shift pattern? I don't know the ins & outs of either the np205 or np203, which I think are the 2 that came in 79s, but it seems like if the speedo moves it's probably not a transmission issue, but a t-case issue, or further back. Does the driveshaft rotate?

Thinking about it, the np203 is a full time transfer case with a differential between front & rear outputs. Again, I don't know the details on these, but I'd wonder if the front driveshaft isn't installed, would the internal differential just spin the front output, like a rear diff would allow 1 tire without traction to spin with the other sitting still? ¯\('-')/¯ Hopefully someone who knows more about these will jump in.

Be careful. If something in there isn't connecting properly, "park" won't keep the truck from rolling.
 

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Premium Member
1979 Bronco Ranger XLT, 400m engine, C6 trans, D44 front with Dick Cepek manual hubs
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967 Posts
Discussion Starter #526
I think I have the 203, no fullzime 4x4
the pattern from top to bottom is
4L
N
2H
4H

Yesterday afternoon I took of the trans oil cooler hoses from the cooler, put it in a bucket and started the engine - I hoped for oil flow.
No flow would really indicate something is wrong (either converter still not good or pump broken).
Flow was coming, 30 seconds about 1 liter or 1 quart was in the bucket, so I stopped the engine and reconnected the hoses to cooler
Very good, no more angryness was created :) haha

177049


so I drained the trans oil, as we put in around 14-15 quarts/liters of even a bit more, I was expecting at least 13-14 liters to come out. thanks to the PML pan, I have a drain plug and did not have to create a big mess on garage floor.

177050


But it only drained around 9 liters....

177051


My maths tells me the following:

Usually it takes 12,7 liters for a filter change, plus 2 liters for the big pan, plus 2 liters for converter, plus a bit for a potentially empty cooler, so we come to 17 liters in total, and we filled less.

As the idle dropped a bit when putting trans into gear I am somehow confident it works and engages correctly, but had too less fluid.

I ordered another 10 liters, so that I have 20 overall and will fill first 13 liters and then put in idle and neutral and fill liter by liter, until dip stick shows at least half. Then it should go into pressure and transfer power. (hopefully).

if Covid does not further delay delivery, I should have the oil on Friday.

All, cross your fingers, I want to finally finish the big work and hope not to encouter too many problems whilst driving.
 

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Driving Stuff Henry Built
-90 xlt, 351w, e4od, man 1356, 3.55, sag, warn hubs, 35s. -73, 400, np435, d20j twin, 35s
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8,495 Posts
I think I have the 203, no fullzime 4x4
the pattern from top to bottom is
4L
N
2H
4H
Looking around a little to confirm, that looks like the 205 (no fulltime 4x4) shift pattern, & the other is the 203.

The knob on the left is the fulltime np203. The knob on the right is the partime np205.

Thinking about it a little more, I suppose a 203 wouldn't move if it had front hubs that were unlocked. Anyway, that's all moot, since by the shift pattern it looks like you have the 205.

Good thinking on checking the amount of fluid. What did the dipstick read with the engine running in park?

It still seems odd that the speedo moves when the truck doesn't. I wonder what's going on there.
 

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Premium Member
1979 Bronco Ranger XLT, 400m engine, C6 trans, D44 front with Dick Cepek manual hubs
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967 Posts
Discussion Starter #528
Well, got the right knob, so its a 205 (I always mix it)
its not a full time 4x4 car, its part time, as when I drove it last year a bit (at least what was possible until it did not start anymore) was in 2H, when I put this into 4H on a green field the front wheels stopped and rolled and stopped and rolled, I needed quite some force to get it out of 4H and back into 2H then.

This was due to my rear axle had 3.25 or higher gearing from a mustang and the front had stock 3.50 diff inside. You may remember from older posts, I got then a completly new locking rear diff with 3.50 gears in.

Anyhow, tried to engage transmission whilst transfer case was in 2H

I wonder whats about the speedo pointer moving, even car is standing, that is odd and was not there before.
First I tought, well maybe grounding issue, but as you say, speedo drive is pure mechanical, its a drive part toggling a drive which is connected to speedo... thats creating the pointer to move.

how the hell this can move when the wheels of the car not turn, we will find out. (maybe)
 

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Premium Member
1979 Bronco Ranger XLT, 400m engine, C6 trans, D44 front with Dick Cepek manual hubs
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967 Posts
Discussion Starter #529
thinking the oil will arrive tomorrow and then as written above, will put 13 liters in, see dip stick when trans is in neutral, will do this until it shows half full, if it then still does not engange, maybe I put another liter and see what happens.

as if this then not get into gears, something will be wrong, so I will have to drain oil and then it does not matter if it was overfilled by 1 liter.

some guys told me the C6 is very picky on oil, if 1 liter or a bit less is missing, it will not go into gear any more.
 

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Good luck
 
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1979 Ranger XLT 400m T18
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I wonder whats about the speedo pointer moving, even car is standing, that is odd and was not there before.
First I tought, well maybe grounding issue, but as you say, speedo drive is pure mechanical, its a drive part toggling a drive which is connected to speedo... thats creating the pointer to move.

how the hell this can move when the wheels of the car not turn, we will find out. (maybe)
Have you checked how your speedo is hooked up? On the 4x4 rigs it's supposed to be towards the back of the NP205 on the driver's side. It connects to the output shaft, so I didn't think there was a way for it to move without the rear driveshaft moving. On the 2 wheel drive rigs, it connects to the C6 transmission somewhere. I'm not sure if it can connect to a 4x4 setup C6. Maybe some previous owner has connected a 2wd speedo cable? Maybe that would allow it to register speed if the transmission has moving parts, but isn't engaging fully.

Just ignore all the protective oil/mud goop on my transfer case. Here's a picture of how my speedo cable is attached. That's the back of the transfer case with the rear driveshaft connected.
 

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Premium Member
1979 Bronco Ranger XLT, 400m engine, C6 trans, D44 front with Dick Cepek manual hubs
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967 Posts
Discussion Starter #532
yes, same here, even the protective :)

just unplugged it once, and put in back in....
never changed it.
did do nothing to to it, lets see


again, it was working before we took the old 400 out, I drove 25 miles ~ 40 km with it, only bad thing it was reading far too low speed, due to the 3.25 rear axle diff.
 

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Premium Member
1979 Bronco Ranger XLT, 400m engine, C6 trans, D44 front with Dick Cepek manual hubs
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967 Posts
Discussion Starter #533
Hey guys
I am not really sure what’s going on.
I put in 14 liters trans oil, it starts dripping out where the feed pipe connects in the transmission, weird.

when engine idles and I shift through gears same as last week and more oil below the car.

what is Strange to me:
When I put it in drive and transfer case in 2H or 4H the Speedo works.
During idle around 20 mph, when I put throttle it raises, but car‘s not moving.
That must mean driveshaft turns, correct?

i am afraid to leave car when in D, not that it finally works when I am not in had no helper today, so I will check this tomorrow.
If the driveshaft turns something must be wrong with my rear, correct?

i am somehow lost
 

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Hey guys
I am not really sure what’s going on.
I put in 14 liters trans oil, it starts dripping out where the feed pipe connects in the transmission, weird.

when engine idles and I shift through gears same as last week and more oil below the car.

what is Strange to me:
When I put it in drive and transfer case in 2H or 4H the Speedo works.
During idle around 20 mph, when I put throttle it raises, but car‘s not moving.
That must mean driveshaft turns, correct?

i am afraid to leave car when in D, not that it finally works when I am not in had no helper today, so I will check this tomorrow.
If the driveshaft turns something must be wrong with my rear, correct?

i am somehow lost
So your rear driveshaft turns in Drive but no movement from the car?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Premium Member
1979 Bronco Ranger XLT, 400m engine, C6 trans, D44 front with Dick Cepek manual hubs
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967 Posts
Discussion Starter #535
Yes exactly, something must be wrong at the rear diff
 

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1979 Ranger XLT 400m T18
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404 Posts
Hey guys
I am not really sure what’s going on.
I put in 14 liters trans oil, it starts dripping out where the feed pipe connects in the transmission, weird.

when engine idles and I shift through gears same as last week and more oil below the car.

what is Strange to me:
When I put it in drive and transfer case in 2H or 4H the Speedo works.
During idle around 20 mph, when I put throttle it raises, but car‘s not moving.
That must mean driveshaft turns, correct?

i am afraid to leave car when in D, not that it finally works when I am not in had no helper today, so I will check this tomorrow.
If the driveshaft turns something must be wrong with my rear, correct?

i am somehow lost
Can you reach down with your phone and film underneath while sitting inside covering the brake to see if the drive shaft is in fact spinning? Or you can wait until you have your helper, I'm just boggled by how things could be spinning but not moving. Do you not have gears in your rear end? Did you disconnect the drive shaft and forget somehow? I don't understand how that can be.
 

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Premium Member
1979 Bronco Ranger XLT, 400m engine, C6 trans, D44 front with Dick Cepek manual hubs
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967 Posts
Discussion Starter #538
Here you go
Started in P
Then R -> driveshaft turns
Then N -> it stops
Then D -> turns otherway round
Engine shut off

 

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I would pull the third member to inspect... something just ain’t right... no noise of something coming loose... which could be either good or bad... but without pulling the diff no way to tell... so??? Does it have locking hubs in the rear axle?
 
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