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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright, Here is an explination of what I have and what I have done. I have a 351w that was originally NOT an egr engine. I removed the non-egr heads and installed reworked egr equipped heads. Also swapped the 4bbl intake and all other essentials to the new block. All the 351 internals remain the same, cam, timing... engine was and still is a carb'd engine

Fast forward to recently. Got engine installed in bronco. everything wired and whatnot. Start bronco and get engine running :thumbup notice that engine has rough idle but contributed this to vacuum leaks that I had not taken care of.

Now to today. I know for a fact that #5 #3 and #7 I can remove the plug wire with engine running and there is no noticeable change in rpm or engine running. You can watch the spark jump a good inch from the cap post to the removed wire, fire is GOOD. So I went and got another set of plugs and gapped them today thinking maybe, just maybe I had a freak incodent with 3 bad plugs. They visually looked fine, but what the hell. Also changed cap and rotor. Tried swapping plug wires blah blah.. compression is 160 on #5 and #7. Removed valve cover and ran engine, Valves are opening and closing.

So, my question to the gurus. Is there any damn way the cam could be effecting the engine running with the EGR heads? I wouldn't think so, I heard it run on the original heads, so I know it can run on all 8. At this point, Im clueless and now have oil down both sides of the block from running it without valvecovers and am at wits end with this project. :banghead

I left it sitting for a month untouched racking my brain before I went with new plugs. ANY IDEAS??


Oh, Another thing I realized today is that I have the old Dist from the original vehicle installed in the engine right now. The EGR dizzy is at my dads house if ya'll think that might make a diffrence.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I'm using 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order.

Non-EGR cam and the dist that I got with the NON-EGR engine.

I should have pulled the numbers on all cyl. I'll get to that. When I was doing my original compression check my starter failed on me due to abuse :duh

If I could just get it to pass the sniffer one time, I'd antique tag it and just drive it for weekend joyrides to the lake with the family. THATS ALL I WANT..:cry
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
yeah, I actually threw a new set I had laying around on it..For shits n giggles. I've been googling my ass off and havent found what I am looking for. Its driving me nuts Steve.

Was 76 the first year for the air injection heads?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hum...I hadn't looked at that! I'll give it a try in a day or two, I'm going to have to install the valve covers before I can run it again. I bet I pumped 3 qts of oil on the floor of the garage within 2 minutes of running.

I thought that was strictly a 302 firing order? :shrug
 

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Hum...I hadn't looked at that! I'll give it a try in a day or two, I'm going to have to install the valve covers before I can run it again. I bet I pumped 3 qts of oil on the floor of the garage within 2 minutes of running.

I thought that was strictly a 302 firing order? :shrug
well then u kno u have good pressure ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
well then u kno u have good pressure ;)
Yeah, I had no doubt about the pressure. When I had the engine apart I put a new pump in it just because it was simple to get to with the engine out. :chili:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Not yet, Its hard to get out and work on it after a 10 hour shift. I plan on working on it today, so watch for an update
 

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it's Dan Five Oh
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I hear that. My 5.0 needs a new TFI and it's been sitting in the garage where the tow truck dumped it two weeks ago. This weekend doesn't look any better, here I am wasting time on FSB!
 

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ok, so wait, a 351HO's firing order is the same as the 302HO order right
(1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8)

or is it 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

im getting mixed information here...

i work and go to school fulltime, most of the time i find myself working on my car around midnight
 

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it's Dan Five Oh
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The 302 standard output and 5.0 standard output and 289 share the same firing order. 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

All 351 engines, AND the 5.0 HO, use this firing order - 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

So use the 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.




If someone wanted to f%&$ with you, they may have installed a 302 standard output cam with the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order. Bad people. But probably not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, It runs! I swapped to what my haynes says is a 302 firing order and the son of a bitch runs. :shrug 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 and it fired right up. Im happier than a puppy with 2 peckers. Thanks for the help guys.

So what gives? I'm not sure which cam is actually in this engine, but I am assuming that there is a 351 cam using a 302 firing order?
 

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someone along the way put a different cam in there. no biggie.

but why did you swap the heads to the EGR ones?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I pulled this engine from a e-350 ambulance with NO emissions crap on it. I put it in my bronco, and wanted it to pass emissions and operate as the emissions system was designed to, including circulating the EG. I did this knowing there was a possibility that the cam may become an issue, but never thought about firing order being changed. From what I have ran it in the garage it seems to be running awesome, but now I need to figure out my starter issues.

Starting it with the timing all ef-d up did some minor damage to the ring gear, and the starter does not appear to be fully engauging on the ringgear, Just catching the forward edge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
HELP! I have ran into this problem before with a different truck that I had....Heres the run down. After putting this engine in and starting it I found one of my starters that I had laying around to be VERY noisy, so I swapped it with another starter which was much quieter and seemed to work flawlessly. After A few times trying to figure out my timing issue it got to also be noisy and would on occasion grind, esp. after running the engine for a few minutes.

So now I have my timing issues in the past and my starter wont turn the damn engine over enough to start it. 3 starters say its not the starter, It stops in this spot with all 3. Here is a picture.


Its like the bendix isn't traveling far enough to fully engage. I had a 87 f-150 351w do shit like this to me, but someone had installed the flex plate without lining up the drain in the torque converter, I swapped the flex plate in that truck with a new one and figured that was going to take care of it, but in the end I sold it and never really got all the starter issues completely worked out.

So in short, What do you guys think the issue is? If I pull the trans and install a new flex plate and it does this shit again I will watch it burn and roast marshmallows on top of it. I'm just to that point with shit thats sitting around here being useless to me. Since you guys helped so much with my last issue, I'm hoping for some clues to my problems :notworthy
 

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Satyr of the Midwest
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Yeah, those teeth on the ring gear are worn, and I see some chunks missing. Time for a new flexplate, m4ng.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I'll replace it when I am curtain that is my issue, but I want to be sure that is the only issue. Only the front of the teeth are fawked, not the face where the starter would be running if enguaged. If the starter were enguaged properly and making half to 3/4 of a rev of the flexplate, then the damage to the front of the teeth should not mater. As it is now, It will turn over untill it gets to this point. :shrug
 

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Satyr of the Midwest
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If the starter were enguaged properly and making half to 3/4 of a rev of the flexplate, then the damage to the front of the teeth should not mater.
How ya figure, sports fan? :popc1:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The 3 starters I have all came from 351/c6 truck/bronco combo. One was the starter that was on this bronco, one was the starter that came with this engine, and one was an earlier project with that 87 351 I had. When trying to start, the starter is noisy and when it gets to this spot it grinds and stops turning the engine. Just for S&G's (Yes I know a ford should never need a shim) I shimmed the starter out to see what the outcome would be and when it got to this point the starter would freespin with no contact with the flexplate. I used very thin washers on each ear. They have since been removed. Shouldn't the starter use the entire tooth of the ringgear for enguagement? the way I'm seeing it its only catching the front face of the tooth, and since these 3 teeth have the front face damaged/broken its letting the bendix loose contact with the teeth and grind/freespin. :banghead
 
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