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Discussion Starter #1
I'm going to be enlisting soon. For certain reasons, I will not be able to get my security clearance right off the bat and enter the MOS I am looking forward to (35F - Intel Analyst). For my own benefit I'm thinking of going in as a wheeled vehicle maintenance so that i can get some wrench time in for the first three years and learn something i can use after I'm done.

After those first three years, i plan on re-enlisting into the intel field and carrying out the rest of my military career. The recruiter I've been dealing with is a little on the young side and doesn't seem to be all to well on the ball. My sister of all people got me an appointment with a national guard recruiter with better/more information. He is at least trusted by people that i know that have used him in the past.

He's trying to get me to enlist in the national guard as active duty (which i would have been doing anyways). The only problem is that there aren't very many MOS's that you can enlist for while staying active duty.

Does anyone know anything i should be looking for in this equation that i might be missing? The national guard recruiter was telling me that the people at MEPS will mislead me into signing up for an MOS that they think i should be doing. I'm not sure how to proceed....


Long read, I know.
 

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before going to meps know what you want. if thier not willing to give it to you walk away. think of buying a new car, the salesman is going to do everything to get you to buy, but if its not what you want why would you? it may be harder with the meps do to your recuiter will be driving you there, but dont feel trapped into anything. they cant make you sign anything. that being said from what i've seen guys will do 2 years full active (plan on deploying) and than will go to thier "nasty girl" unit to finish out the contract.
 

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Need a little more clarification on your plan before I could give any worthwhile insight. Here's some general info and firsthand experience though;

Is your plan to enlist in the Natl Guard and hope to get active duty time? If this is the case, I'll shed a little light on that. "Activated" in the Guard means you are deploying (95% of the time), you might get an active duty slot Stateside, but highly doubtful as a new recruit. Guard full-time slots are usually for senior NCOs and Officers, not new boots.

First thing you really need to understand is that Active Duty Army and the Natl Guard operate on two totally seperate systems and sets of rules.

Planning on changing MOSs after 3 years is a LONG shot, either Active Duty Army or Guard. Don't let anyone BS you otherwise, there is no such thing as being guaranteed a MOS change. When your window opens to re-enlist or leave service at between 18 and 12 months out, you can research a strength list for MOSs. If your current MOS is understrengthed the chance of you being allowed to leave that MOS drops to near nil. if the MOS you want to change to is overstrengthed, it won't happen even if your MOS will release you.

You can "hope" that the moon aligns with the stars and butteflies flap their wings in China at that very moment when you're reviewing your MOS options, but it's definitely a long shot. I've seen many young recruits get screwed by their recruiters and/or MEPS and never knew it until 3 or 4 years down the road. Basic rule of thumb for MEPS: if they won't put it in your enlistment contract, it won't happen.

MEPS and the recruiters each have their own agendas and quotas, keep that in mind and stick to your guns about MOSs. Don't take any empty promises from either place, get it in your contract! If they play hardball or get pushy at any point, tell them thank you for your time, I'm going to talk to the chAir Force recruiter now. That will change their tune pretty quick.

I'll try and answer anymore specific questions you come up with, but I'm weak on the Guard side of the house, all my time was Active Duty big Army and other areas. Feel free to ask though and I applaud you for considering service, in any branch.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
before going to meps know what you want. if thier not willing to give it to you walk away. think of buying a new car, the salesman is going to do everything to get you to buy, but if its not what you want why would you? it may be harder with the meps do to your recuiter will be driving you there, but dont feel trapped into anything. they cant make you sign anything. that being said from what i've seen guys will do 2 years full active (plan on deploying) and than will go to thier "nasty girl" unit to finish out the contract.
That's reassuring. I'm pretty set on getting into the 91B (wheeled vehicle mechanic). I'd have to check my list of backup MOS's to be sure, but I believe I've got about 3 more i could deal with for the first few years of army.

"nasty girl" unit?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Need a little more clarification on your plan before I could give any worthwhile insight. Here's some general info and firsthand experience though;

Is your plan to enlist in the Natl Guard and hope to get active duty time? If this is the case, I'll shed a little light on that. "Activated" in the Guard means you are deploying (95% of the time), you might get an active duty slot Stateside, but highly doubtful as a new recruit. Guard full-time slots are usually for senior NCOs and Officers, not new boots.

First thing you really need to understand is that Active Duty Army and the Natl Guard operate on two totally seperate systems and sets of rules.

Planning on changing MOSs after 3 years is a LONG shot, either Active Duty Army or Guard. Don't let anyone BS you otherwise, there is no such thing as being guaranteed a MOS change. When your window opens to re-enlist or leave service at between 18 and 12 months out, you can research a strength list for MOSs. If your current MOS is understrengthed the chance of you being allowed to leave that MOS drops to near nil. if the MOS you want to change to is overstrengthed, it won't happen even if your MOS will release you.

You can "hope" that the moon aligns with the stars and butteflies flap their wings in China at that very moment when you're reviewing your MOS options, but it's definitely a long shot. I've seen many young recruits get screwed by their recruiters and/or MEPS and never knew it until 3 or 4 years down the road. Basic rule of thumb for MEPS: if they won't put it in your enlistment contract, it won't happen.

MEPS and the recruiters each have their own agendas and quotas, keep that in mind and stick to your guns about MOSs. Don't take any empty promises from either place, get it in your contract! If they play hardball or get pushy at any point, tell them thank you for your time, I'm going to talk to the chAir Force recruiter now. That will change their tune pretty quick.

I'll try and answer anymore specific questions you come up with, but I'm weak on the Guard side of the house, all my time was Active Duty big Army and other areas. Feel free to ask though and I applaud you for considering service, in any branch.
My goal was to enlist (5-6 year contract) in the 35F (Intel Analyst). I can't get the security clearance for the time being, but still need a job. I was planning on doing the impossible and signing up under a different MOS with no security requirements and after that 3 year stint is up, re-enlisting as a 35F. I've been told by more than 3 recruiters now that that is a possibility but what you've said has chipped away at my faith that it will happen.
 

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My goal was to enlist (5-6 year contract) in the 35F (Intel Analyst). I can't get the security clearance for the time being, but still need a job. I was planning on doing the impossible and signing up under a different MOS with no security requirements and after that 3 year stint is up, re-enlisting as a 35F. I've been told by more than 3 recruiters now that that is a possibility but what you've said has chipped away at my faith that it will happen.
OK, also remember that 5-6 years actually means you're obligated for 8 years.

Yes, the recruiters are telling you the truth, it is possible. I'd venture a guess and say that chance is about 10%.

Did the recruiters tell you that an analyst requires a Top Secret clearance, not just a Secret? If you can't qualify for a Secret clearance now, chances are you may never qualify for a TS. it might be the case that a junior ranking 35F can work under a Secret clearance, but in 5-6 years you won't be lower enlisted, you'll be an NCO and in charge of soldiers. You''ll enter a new tier of analyst work that will at one point demand a TS level clearance. Guess what happens to analysts that lose or can't maintain their clearance? Shoot that question at a recruiter and watch the tap dance.

I don't want to discourage you but I do want you to have more information about this decision than the recruiters will give you.
 

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I've known a lot of guys who enlisted with a less-than-ideal MOS. I don't know of any that have successfully transferred to their ideal MOS after the fact.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK, also remember that 5-6 years actually means you're obligated for 8 years.

Yes, the recruiters are telling you the truth, it is possible. I'd venture a guess and say that chance is about 10%.

Did the recruiters tell you that an analyst requires a Top Secret clearance, not just a Secret? If you can't qualify for a Secret clearance now, chances are you may never qualify for a TS. it might be the case that a junior ranking 35F can work under a Secret clearance, but in 5-6 years you won't be lower enlisted, you'll be an NCO and in charge of soldiers. You''ll enter a new tier of analyst work that will at one point demand a TS level clearance. Guess what happens to analysts that lose or can't maintain their clearance? Shoot that question at a recruiter and watch the tap dance.

I don't want to discourage you but I do want you to have more information about this decision than the recruiters will give you.
And I thank you for that. I do know about the security clearance issues. I'm currently trying to find another recruiter I can go see for another perspective on the whole thing. The recruiter I've been dealing with told me that getting the security clearance once I'm in would be based more around my army career than my life leading up to it. Basically, the issue keeping me from getting the clearance now, would probably not be taken into account when I am up for that clearance down the road.

I've got my backup MOS's down to but not confined to wheeled vehicle mechanic, small arms repair, and the logistics/warehouse work...
 

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TS is an aggressively and thoroughly investigated 10 year history, along with an annual polygraph. Just a heads up. No grey area for these. Trust me when I tell you this though, financial issues (bad credit, a BK, judgements, massive debt it income ratio) are ALL disqualifiers for a TS level clearance.

Secret is pretty basic and while in service and actually doing the job they are more lenient about the background checks conducted, or rather, more forgiving about things that show up during your background checks.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
TS is an aggressively and thoroughly investigated 10 year history, along with an annual polygraph. Just a heads up. No grey area for these. Trust me when I tell you this though, financial issues (bad credit, a BK, judgements, massive debt it income ratio) are ALL disqualifiers for a TS level clearance.

Secret is pretty basic and while in service and actually doing the job they are more lenient about the background checks conducted, or rather, more forgiving about things that show up during your background checks.
I'm fine on all of the credit, background checks, and such. I have a pending DUI I'm trying to get dropped and that's what's keeping me from my clearance.

I have a friend that just got his clearance for intel analyst, he said it wasn't too major. But he also went in as an E-4 where i'll be going in as an E-3.
 

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my step brother is a wrench turner in the gaurd. he loves it. He works at Camp Blanding in North Florida. His civilian job is to work on the military equipment (requirement that you already have to be in the gaurd). GRAVY JOB. Look into this I'm sure it is not specific to Fla.
 

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I'm fine on all of the credit, background checks, and such. I have a pending DUI I'm trying to get dropped and that's what's keeping me from my clearance.

I have a friend that just got his clearance for intel analyst, he said it wasn't too major. But he also went in as an E-4 where i'll be going in as an E-3.
Any chances of waiting until your DUI blows over? Like everyone else, I know a lot of guys that have gotten screwed over by their recruiters.

If you don't get what you want the first go around, you'll likely never get it.
 

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Any chances of waiting until your DUI blows over? Like everyone else, I know a lot of guys that have gotten screwed over by their recruiters.

If you don't get what you want the first go around, you'll likely never get it.
This.

Wait for the DUI to blow over and then go in with the job you want, or lower your personal standards to gear up for a job that you might not want. You are not likely to get the job you want after going in and doing something else, no matter how much hope the recruiter gives you. I've heard that story a hundred times, and every time it has ended in catastrophe. If it were me in your situation, I would do something else other than the Army, wait for the DUI to blow over, then continue the recruitment process, or go in now anticipating that I will not be able to change my MOS once I'm in there.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
There lies the problem. I stopped college my senior year from lack of funds. The city I live in is dying. My wife somehow has two good jobs and I can't get hired anywhere unless I'm whoring out my body. I'm very adaptable however. I am overly confident in my ability to do whatever is necessary for as long as it takes. The DUI isn't in stone yet, my attorney is playing with the DA still. The plea bargain I was offered from the prosecution is that I plead guilty to the DUI and only have supervision for two weeks instead of a year, which allows me to enter the army in two weeks. We're trying to get the DUI dropped completely still though.

At this point I'm set to take my chances with the army, at least I'll have a decent paying job. I was laid off in january and have been stagnant ever since.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I've heard of them taking forever, and some get them in extremely short order. That's lower on my concern list as of right now.
 

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Thanks for choosing to serve, it has been a while but I was in the Army in 85 so things I'm sure have changed. I would pass on signing up for the national guard if you are making this a career, UNLESS you don't mind going to a war zone and using your rifle. BTW, when I enlisted I had a host of charges pending on me similar to you. Open container yadayada, and some stuff that left me with fines, probation, loss of license. Anyhow, when I saw the judge he threw everything out of court BECAUSE I enlisted. Screw the DA, if you enlist a Judge will likely drop any probation you will have. The judge said, "Basic Training will be a good experience" and then laughed. he thanked me for choosing the Army.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I can't enlist until the charges are settled and i have no supervision or probation...
 

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I can't fault you there. Just keep in mind that whatever MOS you select may be your one and only. If you're okay with that, go for it.
 
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