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Diesel Gynachologist
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robs got good advice but the big one is be prepared to walk away. stick to your guns on what you want to pay and be happy, let them know that. They will make it happen.

a big help is being employed at the dealer and getting Dplan....:goodfinge
 

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robs got good advice but the big one is be prepared to walk away. stick to your guns on what you want to pay and be happy, let them know that. They will make it happen.

a big help is being employed at the dealer and getting Dplan....:goodfinge
Just sucks when it means you have to buy a Ford though:goodfinge
 

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Lick my
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Ive worked in sales for the last 5 years or so. I worked on a car lot for 4 of them. I now know what its like to be on both sides of the table. I know what to look for or what to say to a salesman and I know what everything costs. Ive had some real shady salesmen try and get me to buy what I dont want, but I have had several really good salesmen that were willing to do what it takes to get a sale. I would 100% agree to going into a car lot not expecting to leave with something. Its like going shopping when you're hungry. Dont do it unless you know what you want.
 

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Garage kept
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Ford dealerships make less money on new vehicles than they do used ones. All salesman are not that way. We are very laid back at my ford store, of course we are small town and small time, but we are good. I say they actually lost the keys or the truck was screwed up.
 

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Always be ready to leave. The "can't find the keys" gag is just a test to see how long you'll stand there waiting. It tells them how desperately you want the vehicle. Same thing with "let me run that offer by my finanace manager" - that's smoke-break time. But they'll be watching you from somewhere, and if you start walking out, they'll chase you into the parking lot begging you to come back in.

The correct reply at that point is: "The only thing you can say that will get me back inside is 'we accept your offer'."

Now, on the fine art of haggling (which should happen BEFORE the above); that's a lot more difficult to describe. It depends on EVERYTHING: the weather, how you're dressed, what you arrived in, what you want to buy, your age relative to the salesman's, how he's dressed, how he acts, how long the vehicle has been there, how many other people have looked at it, the day of the week/month/year (re: his pay schedule, the dealership's quota, tax season, etc.), how desperate you are, how desperate he is, how much you can afford to put down, how much you can afford to pay per month, any trade-ins... The only way to learn is to try. But you can fake a few for practice - just be careful how you START the negotiations so that you always have a way out, even if he gives you the price you're asking for. Something like "I have a few others to look at, but tell me about this one." Saying that a family member is offering an older vehicle at a lower price is good because it's a plausible reason NOT to buy a new one, even at a really good price.
 

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Zombie Hunter
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Discussion Starter #27
Ford dealerships make less money on new vehicles than they do used ones. All salesman are not that way. We are very laid back at my ford store, of course we are small town and small time, but we are good. I say they actually lost the keys or the truck was screwed up.
I live in Parma, Ohio. It's the fifth biggest suburb in the United States. There is nothing small town here.

Usually when i go to a dealership i drive about an hour south to get the service you're talking about.
 

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As a former car salesman I can tell you this. Everything he did is what he was trained to do. It may be that the keys are missing but this rarely happens. It's more likely they had a bounty on that particular newer truck and were told by management to sell the truck today. Now used trucks, especially older ones are big profit makers for the dealer. They get a truck like that for 5000 bucks at the auction and sell it for 15k. I once made a $2500 spiff on a truck sale like that. So your either a victim of a new salesman or your instincts were right about it not running good.
 

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Dates confused the hell out of me. I’m thinking 12k for a 97? That better be garage kept under 30,000 miles. Then it hits me. Necro post
I dunno. I still see people sell those 90's Ford trucks with the 7.3 with asking prices like they're made of solid gold.
 

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Try being a girl and walking onto a lot... 9 times out of 10 just because u have a vag you're treated like u have zero car knowledge. Went thru this when we got the baby Ford. Drove the bko there, i was driving... Nothing brings out the sharks like driving a classic Ford onto a Ford lot... After 10 minutes of everyone slapping hubby on the back telling him what a beautiful Bronco he had i finally lost it... 1. It's MY rig, not his 2. I'm the one trying to ask u questions about the escape, not him... And 3. I can tell u way more about the bko (and most other cars) then he can... So I'm finally able to get this noob salesman to talk to me and he's waaaay high on price trying to convince me what a great deal it is... And I'm like listen, I've already searched every 2012 escape within 200 miles of here and i know book values (always go in having done my homework). Told him what i was willing to pay and after several trips back to the finance guy was able to get within 200$ of the price i wanted then was able to get another hundred off with the promise to come back and give the manager a top off ride in the bko this spring (which I'll totally do). It's these sales trolls that was half the motivation to start learning more about cars... At this point anymore when they all start circling hubby he just says, nope and points to me saying talk to her... She's the one who knows cars and they all just look dumbfounded... Hate salesman but man do i love putting them in their place.
 

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~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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Try being a girl and walking onto a lot... 9 times out of 10 just because u have a vag you're treated like u have zero car knowledge. Went thru this when we got the baby Ford. Drove the bko there, i was driving... Nothing brings out the sharks like driving a classic Ford onto a Ford lot... After 10 minutes of everyone slapping hubby on the back telling him what a beautiful Bronco he had i finally lost it... 1. It's MY rig, not his 2. I'm the one trying to ask u questions about the escape, not him... And 3. I can tell u way more about the bko then he can... So I'm finally able to get this noob salesman to talk to me and he's waaaay high on price trying to convince me what a great deal it is... And I'm like listen, I've already searched every 2012 escape within 200 miles of here and i know book values (always go in having done my homework). Told him what i was willing to pay and after several trips back to the finance guy was able to get within 200$ of the price i wanted then was able to get another hundred off with the promise to come back and give the manager a top off ride in the bko this spring (which I'll totally do). It's these sales trolls that was half the motivation to start learning more about cars... At this point anymore when they all start circling hubby he just says, nope and points to me saying talk to her... She's the one who knows cars and they all just look dumbfounded... Hate salesman but man do i love putting them in their place.
You go girl!!! LOL

A little off topic, but stems from your post.
There's something going on with those Escapes under the dash. I recently went looking for a Ford Factory remote start control unit generation 2. I looked at hundreds of Escapes at the junk yards and 90% of them had all the wiring under the dashboard cut and removed. Why?.....I don't know. Buyer beware.....
 

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Thanks for the info @sackman9975 not sure either what that could be but there's a lot of TSBs for the sync system, and complaints about the remote start... I made sure ours didn't have those features.
Love that carcomplaints.com site. Gives all the recalls and TSBs plus the most common problems 👍 great for anyone wanting to do their used car homework 👍
 

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Lots of love for my chosen profession I see. I've been selling cars the past 5 years. Seeing very few of you have had positive experiences with my kind I'll throw a little information out there for you. Used car lots are a whole other beast; I can't speak towards that experience. I do know the majority of their inventory comes from vehicles we discard (either didn't sell or were too rough/ old trade ins).
Car sales was and is an honorable profession, it's typically the management/ owners who make the experience bad. Not to say you won't get the odd sleazebag but at any dealership that wants to maintain a good reputation they get weaned out pretty quick. It is no different than any other business; they have to be profitable to keep the doors open. Saying you hate all salesman isn't fair to the profession as a whole. I could say the same about the small ma and pa type repair shops I've dealt with. I've only had a couple of positive experiences with them, very often I'm left feeling like I've been reamed to make this even worse I have no choice but to pay it(that is if I want my vehicle back). At least off a car lot you can choose to walk away. In every negative situation I've experienced the owners protected their bottom line even if they made a mistake. In the most recent example I had a throttle position sensor replaced that was not the issue. I paid a 300 dollar pedal assembly and two hours of labor for a misdiagnosis. From that experience and the others I've had using the logic discussed I could say I hate all mechanics.
I've put nearly 1,300 cars on the road and have had only a handful of dis-satisfied customers, all but one of those was due to a breakdown on an older car. In almost every scenario the dealership attempted to help the client (if we were made aware of the issue). I did have someone call me two years and 40k miles later on a 10 year old F-150 w/ a busted transfer case who was on his own. I bet he bashes the dealership and me any chance he gets. You can't please everyone. I have to say though I can't imagine never having a good experience with a dealership. You must be doing something wrong.
Now down to the nitty gritty, here's what to watch out for (New car franchises)
There's lots going on in the industry I don't love, I'm fortunate my owners won't stoop that low (I probably wouldn't work here if he did). On the new car side deceit has became the norm. They will try anything to get you in the door. If you fall prey to this you didn't' do enough homework. Reputable dealerships still exist. We don't have any fees but many charge a flat 199.00. I can swallow that.
Some things to watch out for;
Addendums, many times you have to outright ask if their are any. They tack them on in addition to the window sticker but these items will get buried in the paperwork Some examples of this are paint protectant, clear plastic door guards, even things like mudflaps and bedliner. They are packed in as high profit low cost items. The door trim doesn't cost 30 bucks but they charge 200+. The whole package may total 1,200 (everything totaled up) where they only have 200 in it.

Using special case rebates; an example on this that just happened to me a couple of weeks ago. The dealership was showing a 2,000 dollar rebate as if everyone would qualify making their price much lower than what I could do. They were using a rebate that required you purchased a new Case or New Holland tractor or implement in like the last 5 years. Very few people will qualify for that (including my customer). Fortunately the customer got to the bottom of how they were pricing so low before going in and we were able to keep his business.

Qualifying conditions; this one has cost me a few customers and drives me crazy people are okay with it. The dealership will require you to meet all qualifying conditions to get their advertised price. You have to have a worthy trade, be financing and allow them to facilitate it, and purchase an extended warranty or product like gap. Not to say that I don't agree with any or all of these products but they just pack the loss of the sale back into these items. They can mark up even the financing to an extent in many states by as much as 2%. By the time they do that, mark up the warranty, and bring your trade in below market their deal is worse by thousands then what you should have gotten it for.

Exorbitant fees; I personally think 0 is the correct amount, I've heard in many states it can breach 1,000 dollars but, this is one that so many fall prey to. It isn't discussed until nearing the end of your paperwork and is nothing more sleazy profit. As I mentioned a 199 fee I could swallow, a case could be made for that amount. Anything else is extra hidden profit.

Bait cars; are cars sold months prior under a different program (hell some may have never existed or may have been ordered sold for a customer). I had an uncle recently fall prey to this one. He was looking at a new Chevy truck. The dealership advertised a double cab custom for under 30,000. He drove two hours to them and he spent over 2 hours waiting for this truck to be found while they tried to switch him to a 40k truck. The funny thing was the one he came to see was very similar to the truck they were trying to sell him for 40. I warned him that price seemed awfully cheap to me, he went anyway. I was able to sell him a used double cab 18 after he had that experience.

As far as negotiating sure there's tips to that, I've seen some skilled negotiators in my time. The best way to buy a car though is to do your homework before going into the dealership. Find out what you're willing to pay and stick to it. If you can't come to an agreement as others have stated walk away. If you are considering a warranty call the manufacturer and see what they offer. Same with financing, have a lender in place before going in. The goal for the dealership is to make roughly 2-3000 on any given deal. I say that to say many times we lose especially if we have bought the car whole sale. Many times the listed price does not have much if any markup, the reason for that is; these aforementioned deceitful tactics have changed the used car market, the segment of cars often referred to as the program cars they are the off lease/ rental turn ins. Dealers will buy a car that is a loser on the front end (listed price) knowing they will make it up on the back (financing, fees, trade, warranties).
I doubt I changed any minds but, know some reputable dealerships still exist. For the few the many make it difficult to continue doing business the honest way. The consumers share much of the blame; millions upon millions of cars are sold because they show a great price up front. They are lured in and fall prey to these shady tactics.
 

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While i can certainly appreciate your explanation @curtwow and it does explain a lot of the technical end of the industry, it really doesn't explain my particular issue that seems a chronic and never ending, regardless of geography, issue of all (but 1, and she was female) car salesman... They treat women like ignorant know nothings who aren't worth talking to, and immediately direct their attention to the man, like having a penis automatically comes with some natural born understanding of cars and negotiating that women just don't have...
I look at used cars as a hobby... I can tell u within a year or 2 just about every American made car, year, trim lines, next generation dates, and value of just about any car sitting on a lot... And I'm the one being ignored 😒. It feels like that scene in pretty woman when she goes shopping and gets put down because she dressed like a hooker... Yeah... Not pleasant... Oooh... And the best line I've heard... Why don't u come back with your husband or boyfriend so we don't have to go over all this again... Unless you're trying to sell me a CH53 helicopter, hubby's auto knowledge is about a tenth of mine (no insult to him but unless it's old muscle metal he has no interest)... This is and has been epidemic no matter where I shop...a dealer, a resale lot, PA, Ohio, NY, NJ... All the same... Care to explain that one Curt?
 

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@BroncMom
It happens in society going both direction; at my last dealership a woman salesperson spoke almost exclusively to the wife making the husbands feel the same way as you. She got complaints as I'm sure you can relate to. The manufacturer's train us to figure out who the decision maker is but give equal parties attention, it is something I find myself having to correct from time to time. It actually happened last week. The wife was clearly the decision maker, was very unhappy with her previous dealership experience, was projecting that frustration in our dealings, and was sensitive to me showing her the respect she was due. It would have been very easy for me to direct my presentation to her husband as we had quite a bit in common however I did not give in to this temptation. I can proudly say she left a very satisfied customer and gladly drove two times 50 miles each direction to finish up our transaction. I have to admit though earlier in my career I had a complaint from a who female customer. She brought her father (who was an awesome guy and fellow Navy vet) she handed me my ass in front of my sales manager who was a woman. Needless to say I didn't make a sale and got some extra training.
The explanation is fairly simply, it is easier to relate to our same sex/ race. I seen it in the military, when I worked for the department of corrections, and now in car sales. It was out of the ordinary to see opposites together. Want an example of this go to the mess hall on a military base and pay attention to the groups of people sitting with each other.
I've also pissed men off by "flirting" with his wife which simply wasn't the case. The truck was for the wife, she was in to trucks, horses, UTV's, and we had a ton in common. I was able to give her the confidence to buy a diesel to haul her UTV and horses. Her husband was a snub nose pencil pusher who had no interest in her truck or cars in general. He only bought Toyota products and had no interest in our store or being 1.5 hours from the City. It's a line we walk in this industry. I could imagine you got someone who just was not conscious of their actings but, I can also sympathize to what happened. I can say with a great deal of confidence we would get along fine.
 

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Addicted to Junk
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Dates confused the hell out of me. I’m thinking 12k for a 97? That better be garage kept under 30,000 miles. Then it hits me. Necro post
You been under a rock lately? Any 94.5-97 PSD in "good" shape is gonna fetch 12k plus. I bought a 96 with 175k for 11,000 about 6 years ago. Even running ones without a straight body panel fetch 5-7k

Dont get me started on the price of broncos...
 

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"taught who the decision maker is"... Interesting training... I think they need to update their thinking there as most couples make big money decisions together... And giving equal attention to both... U know what happens there... The woman gets told about the amenities like the light up vanity mirror and stain guard seats... While the guy is told about the horsepower, torque and mechanical specs.. Imo what sales people should be taught is to simply LISTEN... Listen to the questions instead assuming what it is each party wants to hear about.
I know this likely all sounds like I'm yelling at you, but it's not, it's just years of frustration summed up in a few short paragraphs by someone who has no filter and too much candor, sooo sorry about that ☺
 
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