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Discussion Starter #121
Well then, I guess I better get on top of that 460 in the back room and see what's going on on the inside.
 

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Discussion Starter #122
Rut roh. What's this that came out of the drain on the oil pan? It's probably melted snow, right?


 

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Discussion Starter #123
I've got both 460's loaded onto the flatbed truck. I just need to consolidate a few parts and get absolutely everything onto the flatbed, then I'm gonna take that truck on it's maiden voyage and see how it does on the 3-4 mile journey to the machine shop.
 

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Discussion Starter #124
I dropped off the "good" block. I'm having flashbacks with this machine shop though. Like they don't want to just do what I ask them to do. Super annoying.
 

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House of Windsor 4ever!
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Unless the engine was immersed in water, any moisture in the oil areas is of no consequence, and will come off during the tanking. If they shot-peen the block, any leftovers will definitely be gone. The crank is definitely good, and they're right about balancing it. I'm sure it'll get 'cleaned up' so everything's nice and smooth. As for the crank snout, that's a sleeve you remove after you pull the damper off. I know because it happened to me also. Why in God's name didn't Ford just make it one piece, like the Windsor engines? Live and learn, eh? I'm sure the second engine will be a winner out of the gate, just don't go playing 'Smoke the Tires,' OK?
 

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Discussion Starter #126
I'm still being held in suspense on the condition of the block. I took it there in short block form as I wanted it out of the house asap. The guy at the machine shop tried to convince me to take it back home and finish stripping it down so I could save some money, which is why it was getting frustrating. Like, I'm here already with it literally 10 feet from your roll up door and overhead crane, and I'm paying you, just take it... please. If the block is good then I'll take in the rest of my stuff as things were getting stupid at that point. The old guy (in his 70's) holding down the fort didn't seem keen on my intentions.

I did go check the casting numbers on the heads of the 80's 460 and they're identical to the heads on the mid 70's 460. Casting number D3VE A2A. I was kind of surprised that they were the same even though they are both carbed 460's. Ford had a lot of different heads cast over the first several years the 460's were made and I figured they'd continue that trend into the 80's. Maybe it's not out of a mid 80's truck after all. I'm not sure what else to look at to determine that though, especially at this point. I suppose once they check everything I could verify the crank from the short block is actually externally balanced and that would at least mean it's a late 79/80+ crank. My mind has turned to mush these last couple years. I blame the night shift. The oil pan is a rear sump pan and they didn't put 460's into 4x4 trucks until 83, so that definitely leans toward it being an 80's 460. :dunno
 

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The D3VE-A2A heads were, according to a marine boating(?) website, follow-on castings for Cobra Jet 460s, which mimicked the D0VE heads, and are pretty darned good in their own right. The marine 460 had a CJ-spec cam and a CJ dual-plane manifold, cast for a squarebore carb, such as a Holley. So, if the engine was a marine engine, it's pretty good as-is.
 

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1996 EB w/5.8 TOO much lift, 44" Mudders & 5:43-5:38's
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You would have to do some port work on the exhaust side to get rid of the thermactor (emission) bump to get any real flow out of them..they are supposedly good into 600HP + range; not too shabby for a stock head. I'm sure you could run them as is and be very happy with them.
 

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casting-numbers-descriptions-1-index
Good referance material for general info on the heads.

Not saying not to use them, I have a ported and big valved set myself. Just be mindful how much you spent on them as the price of Aluminum 460 heads has come down a lot over recent years.
 

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Discussion Starter #130
The heads that were on the engine that blew were D3VE heads with larger valves and the roller rockers. I don't think any real port work was done to them. As Joe mentioned, the D3VE's are good to 600hp or so with a max effort port job, which, as crazybroncoguy implied, would probably compete with the price of some aluminum heads. I've looked into both avenues before and neither is cheap.

Here's a page from The Mad Porter's website where he describes the differences between the various factory castings. casting-numbers-descriptions-1-index

I don't plan on spending a lot of money on this particular engine. The goal, I guess, is to recreate what I had before as cheaply as can be done and then be a lot nicer to it than I was the last one.
 

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...off to the die grinder store then! :ford
 

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IIRC, those D3VE heads did not have Thermactor passages, but I could be wrong. I know some Cleveland heads had provisions for Thermactor, but the passages were only drilled on Cali emissions heads. So if the humps are in the 460 heads' exhaust passages, you should be good to grind them off.
 

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Discussion Starter #133
If my old heads aren't ported I'd consider practicing on a bad head. I've never attempted anything like that, so I'm not sure I want to risk going through a water jacket on something I plan on using. I'll have to take a closer look at them sometime.
 

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Not really that bad of a job, just extremely labor intense. All you want to do is grind the bumps down smooth with the rest of the runner. Then just clean everything up by removing the burs. After that, just smooth everything out all the way through and that should increase flow. Remember, you don't want to enlarge the area, just remove anything that will cause turbulence. Just be aware that the area next to the water jacket is thin, but if you do the job right and just blend that area, you will be fine. You could (should) port match the intake ports with the gaskets while you are in there.
There are many articles and threads about this as it is a very common upgrade. Because it is so labor intense, a/k/a expensive, everyone does it themselves, so you will have no shortage of info on this mod. Here is a quick link with pics that may point you in the right direction.

P.S. be prepared to have an ample supply of cutters on hand. IMO, the only type cutters that remove metal and last, are tungsten carbide. Remember, for cast iron heads, you need a fine-tooth cutter as it removes metal faster and will give you a smoother finish.

460 Thermactor Mod
 

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:iagree


....But isn't that ALWAYS a good thing?

:thumbup
 

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Good thing cast iron is self-lubricating!

A rotary burr is not much different than an endmill, which I have experience with.

HSS works, but dulls quickly. A carbide bit will last longer, especially if its coated with Titanium Nitride or Aluminum somethingorother. Cobalt bits are the best for durability, but they are $$$. Expect to drop a Ulysses S Grant on a single GOOD rotary burr.
 
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Discussion Starter #138
Still haven't heard back from the machine shop. Maybe they forgot about me! lol

I'll have to call them sometime or swing by and see what's up. I'm in no big hurry right now on this project, so I kinda don't care as long as my stuff doesn't get "lost" somehow.

I went out and looked at the heads today before leaving to work and sure enough the heads off the 460 I blew up are ported a bit. They removed the ol' hump on the exhaust side. That is bad and good news. Bad, because now I don't have a bad head to practice on. Good, because now I have something I can literally look at while I do it and copy. I'm still in no hurry to get it done, but at least I know how to tackle this project once I get to it.


Head off the "new" 460. It was really hard to get pics inside the ports with how bright the sun was and the amount of shadow that was cast over the ports when I'd get into position. At least in this very first shot you can get a pretty good glimpse of it. The other three pics I had to shove my camera up really close and force it to take a flash pic.






Head off the blown 460. It's hard to tell, but that entire hump just below where the valve passes through is completely gone. There's like a divot where it used to be in one of these pics though, which I'm not sure if that's ideal or if it should be smoother and more evenly rounded than it is. Maybe the guy porting it got a little careless and made a whoops on that port. Either way, these heads were capable of getting my mild build up to 427hp. :dunno


 

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Discussion Starter #139
It's been a couple of weeks and I decided to stop by the machine shop when I was in the area. It wasn't the best time though as we're approaching a holiday weekend and half the shops employees were gone early.

Apparently each guy in the shop only does one thing (heads, block, crank, etc) and the guy I spoke with was the heads guy. He wasn't familiar with where everything else was placed inside the shop as each guy stores their stuff in particular spots I guess. I didn't drop off any heads, so he was kinda useless. lol The guy who does the cranks was there though and he found the crank off the short block I dropped off, so obviously it's been disassembled. I had to explain to him what I had dropped off and why as I had two cranks there already and that was all he could find. He said it'd be best to stop by on Tuesday and speak with the guy who does the blocks as that's my main concern at the moment. I won't likely be moving forward with things if I don't have a good block to work with. The guy I dropped everything off with in the beginning, who wasn't really pickin' up what I was puttin' down, is the block guy apparently. Yay.

What this guy was able to tell me was that both cranks were good, but the first one I dropped off (from the 460 I blew up) was the better of the two and that I could take the other one with me. I thought that was hilarious, that I could grenade an engine and still have the crank in it better than the one from an engine that wasn't exploded. How much better was it? No idea.

The guy also asked if I was selling them the parts I had dropped off, which I didn't know was an option. That was before I had to explain things to him and what exactly I had asked to be done. I guess if the block is bad I could always sell them the other parts. I'll investigate further sometime next week. I'm in no hurry.
 

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Maybe one of your cranks was forged and the one he said you could take with you was cast?

Machine shops are usually always looking for blocks, cranks and heads; especially on the hard to find and hi-po stuff. That way if you came in with your 460 and he told you the crank was bad, he could sell you one. Don't expect them to give you a lot of money for it though...

Years ago, I had a set of DOAE 1970 Cleveland 4 bbl. heads I had dropped off to have the exhaust port milled off and lowered and the rocker pedestals milled off. Even back then, they were tough heads to come by. Well, the "head" ( yeah, every machine shop is the same way, block guy, crank guy, head guy etc..) guy screwed up the heads, the Cleveland has canted valves and he milled them off parallel with the head, making them basically expensive paper weights. When I asked him what the hell am I supposed to do now?; he said no problem and he walked into the back with me and said I'll just give you these. He had a set of stripped DOAE heads already cut with bronze guides, bagged, sitting on the floor.

So, if you don't use your stuff, you might be helping another 460 guy out down the road.
 
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