[78Bronko]

Ok, what a terrible day....my 1978 Bronco with a 460 has been slow cranking for the last month or so, the battery WAS good, just cranked and turned over slow until it finally started, then ran just fine. So after searching the threads, I decided the starter was weak and replaced it. While I was at it, I replaced the 4 gauge starter wire to a 2 gauge starter wire. I got my starter from Advanced Auto, and slapped it in. Starterd her up, same slow crank! So, the ONLY thing I hadn't replaced was the starter relay. So back to Advanced, return the core, pick up a new relay, and grabbed a new Accel Yellow Ignition coil while I was at it. So, got everything all wired in, went to hit the start button, and....tick tick tick tick...it sounded like a wall clock second hand ticking....this wasn't good...turned off the key, still ticking....finally got the negative terminal off the battery as I started to smell the burn....Blah..wires were very hot. I have a push button start set-up, one hot wire to the S terminal on the relay....I'm ASSuming the relay IN the starter is foul, locked in, and fried the starter. But why didn't it do it with the old relay? Is the NEW relay the culprit? Either way, I guess they are BOTH going back....or do you think the cheap re-man starter is fubar?

PS, I JUST Seafoamed the engine BEFORE I smoked the starter! LOL! My ol' my...

 

[Bruno2]

think the cheap re-man starter is fubar?

yes.

 

[Bruno2]

The starter was acting at first like it was suffering from low voltage. It very well still could be. The battery needs to be tested as well. Before bringing the battery into question the terminals need to be cleaned up really well. Dirty connections will not let a solid 12volts come through the cable. Also if have those crappy bolt on replacement terminals you may wish to either get a new battery cable with a factory crimped on terminal or if you have access to a big crimper just crimp a new one on. These bolt on style are notorious for causing problems. Once you know all the connections are clean and tight then that could point right at the battery if any further voltage problems.

 

[Seattle FSB]

Be sure that you have it wired correctly. Starter Solenoid wire

 

[78Bronko]

The starter was acting at first like it was suffering from low voltage. It very well still could be. The battery needs to be tested as well. Before bringing the battery into question the terminals need to be cleaned up really well. Dirty connections will not let a solid 12volts come through the cable. Also if have those crappy bolt on replacement terminals you may wish to either get a new battery cable with a factory crimped on terminal or if you have access to a big crimper just crimp a new one on. These bolt on style are notorious for causing problems. Once you know all the connections are clean and tight then that could point right at the battery if any further voltage problems.

Battery had 12.6 volts last time I checked it sitting. Now it has 10-11 after the incident. All wires are new and clean. No corrosion., solid terminals. I think the relay and the starter are crapped out. BWD relay and Remy or whatever AA uses for their starters

 

[78Bronko]

Be sure that you have it wired correctly. Starter Solenoid wire

Push button start, only one wire.

 

[Seattle FSB]

Then how is your starter wired? What kind of starter, Direct Drive or PMGR? Just looking for confirmation.

 

[78Bronko]

Then how is your starter wired? What kind of starter, Direct Drive or PMGR? Just looking for confirmation.

The top one

 

[Kingfish999]

shoulda went to a PMGR (bottom one) they have alot more torque and start better and pretty easy to convert. also you should also replace the ground wire going to the engine with 2 guage cause the battery will only dish out as much power at the ground will provide. double check your wiring. test the starter. test the relay.

 

[BroncoJoe19]

Battery had 12.6 volts last time I checked it sitting. Now it has 10-11 after the incident. All wires are new and clean. No corrosion., solid terminals. I think the relay and the starter are crapped out. BWD relay and Remy or whatever AA uses for their starters

Battery Charge Table
12.6V or higher: 100% charge
12.4V - 12.6V: 75-100%
12.2V - 12.4V: 50-75%
12.0V - 12.2V: 25-50%
11.7V - 12.0V: 0-25%
11.7V or less: 0% (and probably not capable of being recharged)



BTW I agree with your original thought... the starter is bad.

 

[78Bronko]

Battery Charge Table
12.6V or higher: 100% charge
12.4V - 12.6V: 75-100%
12.2V - 12.4V: 50-75%
12.0V - 12.2V: 25-50%
11.7V - 12.0V: 0-25%
11.7V or less: 0% (and probably not capable of being recharged)



BTW I agree with your original thought... the starter is bad.

Just went and did a quick check before I went to work, I laid the screwdriver across the starter and hot leg to jump and the starter just spun...I'm guessing it isn't engaging and that's what caused it to lock up the first time, cheap Chinese junk!!

 

[Bruno2]

Then how is your starter wired? What kind of starter, Direct Drive or PMGR? Just looking for confirmation.

I have the gay one in the top pic. How do I convert? Is there a tech write up on it?

 

[Kingfish999]

that PMGR basicly has a solenoid built onto it, its suppose to have a dedicated power to the starter and then the small wire on the relay goes to the solenoid on the starter. i dont like my starter having dedicated power however and on both my 88 when i got a PMGR starter, i used the regualr relay on the engine bay to go to the starter and used a small piece of wire to bridge the terminal on the starter for the main power with the little post that controls the solenoid. basicly the idea is that the starter needs power to engage the solinoid and power to actually crank it. when you get the starter, you should be able to figuer it out, if not i can make a pic for it

 

[Seattle FSB]

that PMGR basicly has a solenoid built onto it, its suppose to have a dedicated power to the starter and then the small wire on the relay goes to the solenoid on the starter. i dont like my starter having dedicated power however and on both my 88 when i got a PMGR starter, i used the regualr relay on the engine bay to go to the starter and used a small piece of wire to bridge the terminal on the starter for the main power with the little post that controls the solenoid. basicly the idea is that the starter needs power to engage the solinoid and power to actually crank it. when you get the starter, you should be able to figuer it out, if not i can make a pic for it

Not a good idea. Jumping the Starter Main to the Start Signal on the Starter Solenoid can cause starter run-on after the start switch is off due to the remaining spinning starter motor energy generating mechanical voltage until it completely stops. This is commonly known as "Starter Run-on".

Ford even specifically warns:

"! ! ! WARNING: DO NOT INSTALL A JUMPER WIRE BETWEEN THE BATTERY TERMINAL AND THE SOLENOID BLADE TERMINAL AT THE STARTER TO AVOID THE USE OF THE # 12 WIRE. IF DONE, VOLTAGE IS GENERATED TO THE SOLENOID BY THE STARTER SPINNING AFTER THE RELEASE OF THE START KEY OR BUTTON, CAUSING THE STARTER TO REMAIN ENGAGED, RESULTING IN SEVERE DAMAGE AND EVENTUAL FAILURE OF THE STARTER ! ! !"

See this link for more detailed information. new starter problem



A PMGR Starter can be wired using your existing Starter Relay as follows:

The PMGR Starter is commonly wired as such:

I chose to wire mine slightly differently to eliminate constant power to the starter.

I use a 4-post Starter Relay with an "I" Terminal. This provides separate 12v ignition power to the Starter Solenoid and cuts off immediately upon release of the key switch.

 

[Kingfish999]

hmmm... never thought of that but its never affected me yet. but then y dont ya just eliminate the bay mounted solenoid all together and jsut run the wire from the ignition all the way to the starters solenoid? it would eliminate 1 more thing to go wrong then. altho you loose an easy spot to combine where all the positive wires connect, you can still connect them all at the battery terminal. idk i jsut always hated direct power to my starter, if i get stuck in water, well your jsut grounding your battery out then plus it would prevent your exhaust from melting your wires and grounding out.

 

[78Bronko]

Hijacked!!!

 

[Seattle FSB]

hmmm... never thought of that but its never affected me yet. but then y dont ya just eliminate the bay mounted solenoid all together and jsut run the wire from the ignition all the way to the starters solenoid? it would eliminate 1 more thing to go wrong then. altho you loose an easy spot to combine where all the positive wires connect, you can still connect them all at the battery terminal. idk i jsut always hated direct power to my starter, if i get stuck in water, well your just grounding your battery out then plus it would prevent your exhaust from melting your wires and grounding out.

Dude, I am basically wiring the same as you for the same reasons. But just a little different to ensure no problems.

Hijacked!!!

And as for you, I agree with BroncoJoe in that your Starter is messed up.

 

[Fireguy50]

your Starter is messed up

They are on sale! :toothless
http://www.rjminjectiontech.com/collections/starters

 

[78Bronko]

Replaced the 2cnd starter, works. Battery is now toast...only 11 volts...7 kills in 3 months, I gues I got my $20 out it....back to the J/Y with another $20 bill...Seafoam sat for over 24 hours....no SMOKE...dangit.