Bronco Forum - Full Size Ford Bronco Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I finally got my front locker in and took the bronc out for some mud yesterday. I took it pretty easy since I was using the locker for the fiorst time but still went through a couple decent mud pits. Later in the day, but not immediately after wheeling it started shifting really hard so I checked for leaks and found none. The problem even went awayb after that so I didn't worry too much. Well now today it is pouring and the tranny has started acting up again. Could this be electrical? Or could I have tweaked the mounts or something? I'm going to check tghe fluid level duriong lunch today. Thanks.

-Ben
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,044 Posts
Could be electrical since that ABS Sensor on rear diff and - or tone ring inside may be messed up; ck connecotr forst;
will post now and bbl w/more incl self test for Codes
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,044 Posts
SELF TEST - COMPREHENSIVE & Connector Location pics, Bronco & Ford; miesk5 NOTE, The self-test plugs were mounted on the passenger side fender on 1985-86 EFI trucks; The self-test plugs are located along the driver's side fender behind the air filter box on 1987-95 EFI trucks
http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/
Post any codes found here.

Is the PSOM (speedo) acting weirdly?

VSS or RABS?; by Bronco1 - "Depending on the year; 1992 + - It's called a RABS sensor, or a DSS (diff speed sensor), or rear axle sensor

Tone Ring Inspection; "Take off the rear diff cover. Check the Ring Tone gear. It is located on the left hand side of the ring gear. Look to see if any of the teeth have been notched (from debris floating around in the diff.) Usually a spider gear. If the ring tone gear has been notched, it will need to be replaced to fix your speedo reading. Jack it up and rotate the tires to look for the teeth to be notched/broken/bent..."
Source: by Bighibbi at FSB

Sensor Removal/Installation (rear diff) Article & Depiction
Source: by Chilton via Waltman at http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59278&highlight=tone+ring


Speed Input Signal Test in 93-96 Bronco; "...NOTE: Only wiring harness end of connector is to be probed. * Connect Rotunda Digital Volt-Ohmmeter 014-00407 or equivalent to Pin 4 (speed in ) and Pin 5 (speed in -). * Does the voltage increase smoothly and continuously from 0 to approximately 3.5 volts as vehicle speed increases from 0 to 48 km/h (0 to 30 mph)? OR: If available, a frequency counter may be connected to Pin 4 (Speed in ) and Pin 5 (Speed in -). Does the displayed frequency of the signal increase smoothly and continuously from 0 to approximately 667 Hz at approximately 48 km/h (30 mph)? OR: * If neither a voltmeter nor frequency counter is available, vehicle speed control may be used as a good indicator. If it works normally, then the speedometer module is at least receiving a speed input signal and the wiring and sensor can be assumed to be good. Rear axle sensor should read 800-1400 Ohms across the pins, and more than 10 Ohms from the metal shell to either pin. To bypass the 4WABS module & feed the ABS signal directly to the PSOM, jumper LG/Bk to LG/Y, and R/Pk to O/LB..."
Source: by Steve83 (Steve, That dirty old truck) at http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/170517_1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Alright, yesterday I checked the fluid level during lunch and it was pretty low, but still visible on the dipstick. After work I planned on going down the road to get some fluid and fill it up but when I started it sounded horrible like clunking. So I got a ride to the store and put a quart in. I put another half quart in on the way home (I have a 50 mile commute) and it felt better but still not like it used to. I let it sit overnight in a garage with paper towels underneath and crawled under it looking all over for leaks and found nothing. This morning I saw no ATF on the towels and checked the level, seeing it was still low and put another quart in. It drives better than yesterday but still not like it used to. I drove a different vehicle to work simply because I don't understand what's happening. I'll change the filter tonight when I have time (work has been crazy lately) but I am worried that I just did permanent damage. Is it possible that it only leaks when the transmission is working? Could I have possibly burnt that much fluid off? It is old fluid but I really wasn't romping it at all... Thanks for the info miesk, I don't think its electrical but I will run those tests tonight regardless.

EDIT: When it was making that "clunking" noise it got worse when put in gear, but was still present even while in park, it seemed like it was putting a drag on the motor because it was having trouble keeping a constant RPM (I only put it in drive while staying in place, the bronco never moved)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
46 Posts
Shift

I've only had this Bronc a few weeks but a couple days ago it started shifting hard, the only way I can describe it is to compare it to having a shift kit in a camaro. Trouble is it's not a constant. Most often it shifts right, other times it winds out and BAM. If this is the same thing your experiencing I would like to be in on the diagnosis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I've only had this Bronc a few weeks but a couple days ago it started shifting hard, the only way I can describe it is to compare it to having a shift kit in a camaro. Trouble is it's not a constant. Most often it shifts right, other times it winds out and BAM. If this is the same thing your experiencing I would like to be in on the diagnosis.
Exactly like that except for every shift both up and down for me. Have u changed the filter or checked the level? (Obligatory stupid question)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,044 Posts
3egg; ok; check this out; Low Transmission Fluid Level And Or Shift And Or Engagement Concerns TSB 97-12-13 for 87-96 Bronco & many others; "...may have low fluid level and/or may have either a shift concern and/or an engagement concern. This may be caused by transmission fluid leaking from the transmission into the transfer case through the transfer case input seal. Replace the transfer case input seal..." read more Source: by Ford via thedieselstop.com @ http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/tsb/tsb/files/971213.pdf

an excerpt; "...
Check the transmission fluid level. If the transmission fluid level is low and there are no visible signs of a leak, check the transfer case fluid level. The level of fluid in the transfer case should be just below the fill plug hole."
How is da fluid condition (no burnt toast aroma / discoloration?

JAX; do the self test; check fluid and condition (no burnt toast aroma or discoloration)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,044 Posts
1356 Fluid Drain & Fill Plug Location pic; "...The plugs are shiny metal. The right one is the fill plug and the left one is the drain plug..."
Source: by Jem270 at http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/586647/fullsize/bw-1356.jpg

It's a 10mm square hole. People strip out the plugs when they use a 3/8" extension which is slightly smaller than 10mm plus extensions do not have sharp edges/corners which makes it worse..."
Source: by Dustin S

also; check the MLPS; Water Intrusion of MLP/TR Sensor TSB 95-2-12 by Ford for 89-94
01/30/95
TRANSMISSION - E40D - DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES - WATER INTRUSION OF THE MLP/TR SENSOR
TRANSMISSION - E40D - POSSIBLE WATER INTRUSION INTO THE MLP/TR SENSOR CAUSING SHIFT CONCERNS AND/OR HARSH ENGAGEMENT CONCERNS
TRANSMISSlON - E40D - SHIFT CONCERNS AND/OR HARSH ENGAGEMENT CONCERNS DUE TO WATER INTRUSION OF THE MLP/TR SENSOR
1989-94 BRONCO, ECONOLINE, F-150-350 SERIES, F-47, F-53, F-59
ISSUE: Some vehicles may exhibit a shift concern and/or a harsh engagement concern due to water intrusion into the MLP/TR sensor and vehicle harness. There may also be a number of different DTC's along with those concerns.
ACTION: Replace the MLP/TR sensor and vehicle harness connector if signs of water penetration are evident. Refer to the following for service details.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
1. Verify the customer concern.
2. Perform normal on-board diagnostics.
3. Inspect the MLP/TR sensor for signs of water contamination.
4. If water penetration is present and/or DTC's have been set, replace the MLP/TR sensor and the vehicle harness connector with the TR Sensor Service Kit (F5TZ-7A247-A).
The TR Service Kit contains:
One (1) TR Sensor
One (1) Connector Assembly
One (1) "Red" Pin Separator Plate
One (1) 6-Pin Grommet
One (1) 8-Pin Grommet
One (1) 7-Pin Grommet
One (1) Instruction Sheet
PART NUMBER PART NAME
F5TZ-7A247-A TR Sensor Service Kit
OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: NONE
WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under The Provisions Of Bumper To Bumper Warranty Coverage For 1992-94 Models, Basic Warranty Coverage For All Other Model Years
OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME 950212A Perform Electronic 2.0 Hrs.
Transmission Diagnostics, Replace MLP/TR Sensor
DEALER CODING BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE 7F293 08

check for damage to connector/wiring/water, mud and so on.. should get a DTC.

Manual Lever Position/Transmission Range (MLP/TR) Sensor Connector Re-Pining in a 90; "...Here is what I have on my 1990 after MLPS Upgrade to F5TP-7F293-AA...First, look at this diagram, specifically the lower connector, for reference... Then I have as follows...#1 - Blank, #2 - Light Blue/Yellow Stripe, #3 - Black/White Stripe, #4 - Blank, #5 - Red/Black Stripe, #6 - Violet/Orange Stripe, #7 - Black/Violet Stripe, #8 - White/Red Stripe; Be advised that Red might be Pink and Violet might be Purple, it is hard to see with a flashlight. And, these wires no longer match up to my Haynes MLPS Schematic
Source: by Seattle FSB at http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169250

Manual Lever Position (MLPS) also called Transmission Range (TR) Sensor pic w/Alignment Marks (from a Mercury, but similar)
Source: by Steve83 (Steve, That dirty old truck) at SuperMotors.net http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/81709
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Wow, thanks for all the info. I was having the exact same thoughts in regard to the t-case since I shattered my tailstock to the transmission when my t-case blew up. When it happened a bunch of atf came out but I never thought much of it. I will also check that sensor because I blasted more mud and water up there than ever before. I'll also drain ALL the fluid by removing the fly wheel cover (I don't know what it's called). I wonder if the filter/gasket kit I got comes with that... I'll also be able to put that filter retainer bracket I bought a while ago in finally.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,044 Posts
ok, gl!
Also, while inside the pan; consider this;
Filter Magnet; E4OD Kills Engine in Drive; works as a filter retainer; w/Ford PN and size...basically this is a magnet Ford uses to keep the filter in-place tightly into the pump; Ford pn F3RZ-7E290-AC
Source: by spxfiltran.com via web.archive
http://web.archive.org/web/20010727174755/http://www.spxfiltran.com/Bulletins/toledo/techbulletin.asp?num=037

Filter, Internal, Grommet Warning; "...When ever you go to change your trans filter, Always make sure to pull out the little round rubber do hicky thingamabob. Lets call it a gromit or a seal? Theres this part of the trans filter that is inserted into the trans (a round tube that goes up into this hole ); Now the tube has a gasket of sorts that wraps around the tube ( kinda like a wide O-ring )It form a seal between the tube and the hole it goes in. Well what ended up killing my trans was that fact that the last guy that changed the trans filter didnt notice that this o-ring thing (gromit Or what ever) did'nt come out with the filter it stayed in the hole! He left it in there; & installed the new filter witch had its preinstalled gromit already; So what he did, is he (unknowingly) stacked two gromits on top of each other, Witch did not let the filters tube fit as it should. It was starving itself for fluid!! It was sucking air as well as tranny fluid! (in other words not working right) ..."
Source: by BlancoBronco
http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20560

on the MLPS I have more test links in my site under ELECTRICAL, SENSORS
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
46 Posts
Fluid condition and level are both great. No burnt smell and the fluid has a nice pink color to it. The truck has 191k on the ticker though so I was considering doing a transmission filter and fluid change. If the fluid level is fine do I still need to check the T-case level? What's an MLP/ TR?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I did the fluid and filter change yesterday and it is still shifting rougher than before. I will check the electrical tonight but I think I did some permanent damage running it that low... I hope the tranny lasts a while longer and ill start looking for deals on old trannys and a rebuild kit.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,044 Posts
Fluid condition and level are both great. No burnt smell and the fluid has a nice pink color to it. The truck has 191k on the ticker though so I was considering doing a transmission filter and fluid change. If the fluid level is fine do I still need to check the T-case level? What's an MLP/ TR?
YO!
Do that self test and report on any Codes found;
Manual Lever Position/Transmission Range (MLP/TR) Sensor - see info incl descr, location, tests @ my site http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=846

Also ck the E4OD Solenoid Pack Connector Location; "...It's on the passenger side of the transmission. You'll need to remove a small heat shield (two bolts) next to the catalytic converter, and probably clean away a TON of gunk before yanking it. Ford wasn't too bright in designing the placement of this connector. The connector has a single press-in tab latching it in place, IIRC..."
Source: by SigEpBlue (Steve) at FSB
more on this in my site @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=63
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,044 Posts
I did the fluid and filter change yesterday and it is still shifting rougher than before. I will check the electrical tonight but I think I did some permanent damage running it that low... I hope the tranny lasts a while longer and ill start looking for deals on old trannys and a rebuild kit.

ok; YO!
Do that self test and report on any Codes found;
&
Manual Lever Position/Transmission Range (MLP/TR) Sensor - see info incl descr, location, tests @ my site http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=846

Also ck the E4OD Solenoid Pack Connector Location; "...It's on the passenger side of the transmission. You'll need to remove a small heat shield (two bolts) next to the catalytic converter, and probably clean away a TON of gunk before yanking it. Ford wasn't too bright in designing the placement of this connector. The connector has a single press-in tab latching it in place, IIRC..."
Source: by SigEpBlue (Steve) at FSB
more on this in my site @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=63

When checking fluid level; was engine at norm op temp? and was fluid in Cross Hatched area on dip stick with engine running and in Neutral or Park?
if so, it is within specs...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
46 Posts
I failed to mention something earlier as I didn't think it relevant to the shifting but...... The low range button on the dash doesn't work. Or I assume it does not work, I can't feel a difference when it's pressed and there is no indicator light like on the 4x4 button above it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,044 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I have finally done all the electrical tests (thanks miesk!) and everything seemed to check out. The shifting seems to slowly get worse and now it has started to periodically slip while in overdrive. One odd thing is that when the tranny is cold and in park it make bad, loud banging noises that sounds like an engine backfiring. This goes away as soon as I'm out of park but it is an enigma to me. I'll check for a broken mount tomorrow but it goes away in drive so I doubt that. ANYWAYS, I want a "new" tranny relatively early even without these problems. I have decided that I want to rebuild it myself. I know it is not easy and I am not looking for advice about that. Tell me I can get an already rebuilt transmission for cheaper and I'll listen though. I have found a few transmissions through craigslist and junkyards that still run but have high miles that I would like to rebuild. What are the changes made to E4OD's made throughout the years and which ones will work easily with my setup electrically? I have heard that 95+ has a better pump, is there any other strengths and weaknesses I should know about through the range of years? I am planning on doing clutches, steels and a shift kit. Should I consider anything else? I know it's a lot of questions but any help will be appreciated.
Thanks
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,044 Posts
ok,
Now go thru Ian's info; Diagnosis
Source: by Ian L (stangmata, stangmata50l, Bronco) at FSB http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122096
--------
Upgrades:
you can see the upgrades by way of some of the TSBs Ford put out up to & incl 96 in my site @ http://www.broncolinks.com/index.php?index=63

Also in there are;
Upgrades, Recommended for 94 & earlier
Source: by Baumann Electronic Controls, LLC @ http://www.becontrols.com/tech/ch6e4odinfo.htm

Valve Body Gasket Changes for 90 - 96 (part ad) Source: by transtec.com @ http://www.transtec.com/rebuilder_news/1st_q94r-n.pdf


"...in 95 the e4od got an upgraded ball bearing center support, revised o/d planet and input shaft and much better F5 casting pump. there were also some sprag upgrades. i wouldnt bother with a pre 95 e4od..." by thePUNISHER (Paul) at FSB


89-96 E4OD products from Paul's ClutchBoxes; http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146157
--------------
and there are at least one or 2 a ok rebuild article Links in my E4OD section as well.
__________
Ford also sells:

Remanufactured Transmissions & Engines - Motorcraft® Brand, Broncos & all Ford vehicles
Source: by fordinstallersupport.com @ http://www.fordinstallersupport.com/files/catalogs/ptm200.pdf

Remanufactured Transmissions & Engines - Dual Brand, Broncos & all Ford vehicles
Source: by fordinstallersupport.com @ http://www.fordinstallersupport.com/files/catalogs/ptf200.pdf

get some estimates from tthe Distributors & Ford; Ford has a good guarantee and the Qual is up there. And the Ford reman trannys/engines do not need to be installed by a Ford Dealer

Look at this Excerpt;
"...Ford and Motorcraft Remanufactured Transmissions and Gas Engines
Ford Motor Company, The American Road, Dearborn, MI 48121 (“Ford”) provides the following Limited Warranty on Ford and Motorcraft Remanufactured
Transmissions and Gas Engines to Ford, Lincoln and Mercury Dealers (each being a “Dealer”) or general Installers (each being an “Installer”). This Limited Warranty provides that Ford will credit the Dealer or Installer for repairing or replacing, at Ford’s option, any Ford or Motorcraft Remanufactured Transmission or Gas Engine sold by Ford that is found to be defective in factory-supplied material or workmanship subject to the following terms, conditions and limitations:
Retail Customers: To obtain warranty service, please return your vehicle to any Ford, Lincoln or Mercury Dealership or return to the Installer who
originally installed the Ford or Motorcraft Engine or Transmission Assembly in your vehicle. Please have your original dated receipt for installation date verification.
Complete Gas Engine Long Block Assemblies (6006/6V012) and Transmission Assemblies (7000/7V000/7003)
• 36 months or 36,000 miles from warranty start date, whichever occurs first. Ford will cover 100% of all parts and labor at approved warranty reimbursement rates
• If installed by a Dealer, reasonable towing charges (up to 35 miles or to the nearest Dealer) are covered only if the vehicle is not covered under
another towing insurance coverage Short Blocks (6009/6V009), Cylinder Heads (6049/6V049) and Crankshaft Kits (6303/6V303) for Gas Engines
• 12 months or 12,000 miles from warranty start date, whichever occurs first. Ford will cover 100% of all parts and labor at approved warranty reimbursement rates
• If installed by a Dealer, reasonable towing charges (up to 35 miles or to the nearest Dealer) are covered only if the vehicle is not covered under
another towing insurance coverage
Warranty Start Date
• Ford and Motorcraft Remanufactured Transmissions and Gas Engines installed by the Dealer or Installer—warranty begins on the date of installation
• Ford and Motorcraft Remanufactured Transmissions and Gas Engines sold by Dealer or Installer over-the-counter or to a retail purchaser—
on the date of sale
Limitations to the Warranty
The following limitation applies to the products covered by this Limited Warranty
• Towing charges are not reimbursable for Ford and Motorcraft Remanufactured Transmissions and Gas Engines sold
over-the-counter by a Dealer or Installer..."

read more incl the;
"No-Risk" Core Return policy means accurate quotes for engine and transmissions are no problem. 100 percent core credit will be given (regardless of damage or quality of returned core); just follow these guidelines and the return runs
smoothly.
• Returned core is the same part as the assembly purchased
• Core is 100% complete with all parts attached and all fluids drained and is returned in original package..."
-----------
Still need to diagnose what is wrong w/current tranny tho to keep it on da road if you need to save $ or get more time out of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Hey, thanks once again that's exactly what I was looking for. In terms of my current transmission I was just thinking along the lines that running with low fluid combined with its age burned up the last of some clutches...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,044 Posts
yo, yw.. ok, I just want to make sure a less $ fix isn't ruled out before you spend lottsa for a rebuild kit, tools, etc or a reman E4OD. Let us knok what you find or decide; whatever you decide you should instal;l the Ford recommended in-line filter;
Filter, In-Line TSB 00-23-10 for 89-96 Bronco & F Series, etc.
by Ford via Steve83 (Steve, That dirty old truck) at http://www.fourdoorbronco.com/board/showthread.php?t=5221
Filter, In-Line, Emerging Enterprises, Magnefine® or Power Steering XC3Z-7B155-AA Installation Instructions; Ford XC3Z-7B155-AA; this filter is cited in E4OD/4R100 Filter, In-Line Kit TSB 00-3-8 for 89-96
Source: by Emerging Enterprises, Magnefine® http://www.emergingent.com/magnefine/installation_page.htm
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top