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Discussion Starter #1
Well it seems like it's time to replace the engine in my 93. I have been fighting a cracked head for the last year. I saved up enough money to replace them and get some other hi-pro parts from the user KM81 on this site, but he screwed me over and never sent the parts after I paid him. Anyways, I now also have a knocking noise on cold starts and under a load that sounds like a rod bearing. So I sold my ATV and I'm looking to purchase an engine. I figure at 300k it's about time anyway.
I have a few questions that I'm hoping you guys might be able to help me out with. First off, where would be a good place to purchase an engine? I'm looking for something with a little more getup and go than just the stock ones, but do not have enough money to spend 6k on it. Maybe a better cam, heads and intake. Can and/or should I go with the roller engine? MAS? if I do go with something for a 95/96, do I need a new computer, or other parts? Should i just stick with the 351 for 93 and below? I Don't have a whole lot of money... Approx 3000 to 3500. Can it be done for this amount? I don't want to pull the old one and rebuild it, because it's my daily driver and I have never rebuilt an engine before. I can swap an entire engine in a short amount of time, but the most I've done with the internals, is pistons.
Thanks for any help you might have!
 

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ok are you ready for this. lol

Your best bet would be to get the direct replacement for what you have so it will play nice with everything you already have. If you plan on adding a hotter cam, Heads, anything like that, you are looking at having to upgrade alot of stuff. You will need to do a mass air conversion, new computer, intake tubes, air box, and lots of wiring mods.
Then you will likely need a tuner such as from TWEECER.

This will cost alot. If you dont have the budget to do it now, stick with completely stock and upgrade later as you go. At least you will have a new engine that runs right to build off of.

Getting a new long block is the best way to go. You will need to take your intake, timing cover, valve covers and have them spotlessly cleaned at a machine shop. Inside and out. You want to get every last bit of grease, oil, grime, anything. you want clean metal. Then you will need to look at all your emissions components and make sure they are all working properly.

If you want a good read. check my build thread in my signature below and start around page 30. it goes into alot more detail and you can see what you would be facing.

Your budget of 3000-3500 is plenty enough to do the stock upgrade. But not enough to do much else. even if you do 100% of the work.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the information... So if I change to, Let's say GT40P heads, i will have to convert to MAS and get a new computer?
What if I went with something like a set of GT40 heads and an Edelbrock intake... Would i have to upgrade to MASS with a new computer? (I say GT40, because I don't think that the GT40P can be used in CA with the BKO???)
I started reading your build thread... Now i can't stop. Lots of good info there.
Anyways, everything else is running great, I keep pretty good tabs on everything. it's just the crack and now the rod bearing (i think). I was going to fix it a while back, but ran into issues with that prick that didn't send the parts i paid him for.
I was also thinking i might just buy a stock crate engine and put it in. Then i can rebuild the old one as time and money allow. I just would have rather been able to throw it all in at one time. Everything else on the truck is pretty much where i want it, i just wanted a little more HP. I'm running 37's and it get a little sluggish coming up the hills around here. I should have went with 4:10's instead of the 4:56's. Maybe just the new engine will give me the lost HP I'm looking for?
 

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i would go to GT heads the non P kind. The P's will require custom or modified headers and is no fun. all due to the plug angle. the regular GT heads are adirect swap and only within a couple of HP.

theres not much difference in any of them, but its a cheap easy upgrade for a few ponys.

those heads the eddie intake will be a good start. should all work without issue. but you wont get the most out of it without some kind of tuner.
 

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I'm very happy with my 351W with GT40 heads on it in my trail truck - lots of snap, even with my crappy intake setup. Unless you have a friend who can tune cheap for you just focus on a good build - with that kind of cash I don't see why you couldn't rebuild that motor for well under a grand, spend a grand on cylinder heads and the rest on tuning.

MAS - you keep saying it, but I don't think you know what it means. There is speed density and mass air - speed density is crap for performance and anything modern is mass air.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i would go to GT heads the non P kind. The P's will require custom or modified headers and is no fun. all due to the plug angle. the regular GT heads are adirect swap and only within a couple of HP.
This is kind of what I was hoping to do... Maybe a set of GT40 heads and the Edelbrock intake. I'm hoping this will get me were I want to be. Do you know if the GT40's have the holes in the back for the crossover tube? I don't think the GT40P heads have it, and is why I would like to steer clear of them.

I'm very happy with my 351W with GT40 heads on it in my trail truck - lots of snap, even with my crappy intake setup. Unless you have a friend who can tune cheap for you just focus on a good build - with that kind of cash I don't see why you couldn't rebuild that motor for well under a grand, spend a grand on cylinder heads and the rest on tuning.

MAS - you keep saying it, but I don't think you know what it means. There is speed density and mass air - speed density is crap for performance and anything modern is mass air.
Thanks for the info, but I'm fairly sure I know what "MASS" / "MAF" is... I was responding to the previous post.

I would like to rebuild what I have, but as I stated before, I think I driving it on borrowed time right now. What I would have really like to have done, is pull everything from a 96, rebuild it with a different cam, heads and intake and put it in. As it stands now, I think what I will have to do is buy a crate engine and if I have enough left over, get the heads and intake for it. Then rebuild the old engine (because I have never done a complete rebuild before, and would like to take my time doing it).

What I was originally asking, is would I be able to so it with the 3000 to 3500 I had... Or should I do a newer roller engine with MASS/MAF, and I didn't know how far I could go without having to tune or get another computer, etc...
I think I found my answer, but I am open to any ideas anyone has, and if anyone knows where a good place to get an engine would be. Jasper, Autozone, ???
 

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You are in Cali - hit the local car forums and find a local builder who the locals go to. Seriously - I had my 351W rebuilt for well under a grand, slapped GT40's on it and away I went - that included the 180K mile 351w shortblock I got off CL. Why are you after a different intake - do you want to trade horsepower for torque? The money spent on an aftermarket EFI intake can easily pay for tuning -

Get some good used aluminum heads (~185cc) a large lift cam with stock lobe separation, larger injectors, junkyard MAF and get it tuned. I don't see how it would be a problem to get it all done for under 3.5k.

The only problem I see is if this is your only transportation. If that is the case then your options are much smaller. I would still find a shortblock to have rebuilt - EFI engines hold up WAY better and my 180K block only needed a hone and bearings.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ah, this is the information/suggestions I'm looking for!
Yes, I'm in CA, and yes I will look into having a local rebuild. The reason for the intake, is I hear good things about the combo. So what you are saying is, if I put the GT40 heads and the Edelbrock intake, I'm going to lose HP? wouldn't I gain a little of both???
Do you have any suggestions on a cam?
What about tuning? Are you talking about computer tuning? I know very little about it, or how to go about having it done.
Yes, it's my daily driver, and I will have a total of 1 week to get everything done. because of this, I'm wondering if maybe have it built (or bought) with a cam and set of heads ( I can always wait on the intake). Then wait for the MAF, injectors and tune when I get more time/money.?. I will definitely research it in the interim
I'm not sure what you mean by "EFI engines hold up way better". I wasn't planning on changing it from and EFI. What are your thoughts on any benefits to the roller engine?
Thanks for your help... This and your build thread are exactly what I'm looking for to help me decide which way to go!
 

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Thats pretty much what I suggested earlier. Get a new direct replacement long block. swap it all back in stock. If you only have 1 week, you are going to be in trouble. If you have sludge in your intake, valve covers, timing cover, it will take longer than that for it to get clean. Mine took about 2 weeks just to get clean. So you might be better off hitting the junk yard and looking for a cleaner set that you could clean with some brake kleen and brushes. If you dont have sludge, your ok. but its more than likely loaded with it.
 

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All of the aftermarket intakes are focused on horsepower as they are for racing - the best intake you can get for max torque is a GT-40 intake off a lightning- all aftermarket intakes raise the power band as well, which isn't what you want. The more important thing to realize is that it is going to raise where you make power in the RPM range- not good for a heavy vehicle. The long intake runners produce torque - hence why the tubular GT40 is the best.


As for a cam - something similar to a 35-518-8 would be fun. My suggestion is to call Comp and chat with them - they can even grind you a custom cam.

Tuning is either going to have to be a Tweecer or a Quarterhorse setup as I don't think anyone makes chips for these PCMs anymore. Maybe Megasquirt?

EFI engines hold up better than carb engines - meaning finding a EFI core is going to be in much better shape than a carb'd engine. Find a F4TE block and have it checked for cracks - specifically the #2-4 cam bearing journal.

To me - it looks like you need to find yourself a <$300 CL engine to toss in so you can build what you want with your budget. Start collecting parts and make smart decisions.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thats pretty much what I suggested earlier.

Yes, and thank you for the suggestions. I'm just trying to find the right match to what I want. It will be more expensive to get a crate engine and then buy performance parts, than it would be to just get a block and start from there. As I stated before, I have never rebuilt an engine, so I'm a little uncertain about trying it out on my daily driver. if I mess something up, I'm screwed. I say I have week to change out the engine, because i will plan the start on a day i don't have to be at clients for a week.


All of the aftermarket intakes are focused on horsepower as they are for racing - the best intake you can get for max torque is a GT-40 intake off a lightning- all aftermarket intakes raise the power band as well, which isn't what you want. The more important thing to realize is that it is going to raise where you make power in the RPM range- not good for a heavy vehicle. The long intake runners produce torque - hence why the tubular GT40 is the best.
That would be great, but how hard is it to find the lightning GT40 intake... and is that the lower and upper from a lightning, or just one or the other?


As for a cam - something similar to a 35-518-8 would be fun. My suggestion is to call Comp and chat with them - they can even grind you a custom cam.
If I decide to rebuild my own, I will definitely contact them

Tuning is either going to have to be a Tweecer or a Quarterhorse setup as I don't think anyone makes chips for these PCMs anymore. Maybe Megasquirt?
That's what I thought and have read a little on this, but didn't think it was really necessary unless I was really getting into hi-pro. I also hear it's pretty expensive. again, I'm not sure though.


To me - it looks like you need to find yourself a <$300 CL engine to toss in so you can build what you want with your budget. Start collecting parts and make smart decisions.
Unfortunately, finding a 300 engine in my area is probably pretty rare. the closets thing i found for 300 was half of a Cleveland engine about 2 hours from me.
The truck is running fine right now. It has a small crack in the drivers side head and I'm now getting a knock when I start it up in the morning and when I'm going up hill at low rpm's. I just feel I'm driving on borrowed time right now. I'm thinking that maybe just getting a crate engine and replacing the heads with the GT40 might get me where I want to be. I'm not trying to build a race engine, I just want to be able to take the hills around here at 65/70 without it dropping out of OD, and the occasional towing. I really like the 37 inch tires I have on it now, but it seems like they are just a hair too much. When I had the 35's I felt like the rpm were just a little too high on the freeway. This is the reason I went to a 37. I tried to find a nice 36 (which I was hoping would put me where I wanted to be), but could not find one for my new rims I had just purchased. Anyways, just a little background on what I'm trying to do that I thought might help. I really appreciate everyone's input and I'm taking it all in to consideration on which way I will go. The one thing I don't want to do, is replace the engine, then start pulling heads and intakes again. I would like to put an engine in that I want, but if that is not possible, than I guess what I would need to do is throw in a crate engine with a warranty, then slowly rebuild my old one as money allows.
 

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Cam Research 303-762-0022 talk to Scott. they will grind you a cam and break it in for you as well. All the 460's that come out of this shop have their cams in them and we haven't ever had a problem with them. Make sure you get a few bottles of zinc also if you are running a flat tappet camshaft.
 

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Well it seems like it's time to replace the engine in my 93. I have been fighting a cracked head for the last year. I saved up enough money to replace them and get some other hi-pro parts from the user KM81 on this site, but he screwed me over and never sent the parts after I paid him.
Is this still unresolved? Did you get your money back?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Cam Research 303-762-0022 talk to Scott. they will grind you a cam and break it in for you as well. All the 460's that come out of this shop have their cams in them and we haven't ever had a problem with them. Make sure you get a few bottles of zinc also if you are running a flat tappet camshaft.
Thanks. If I go that route I will look into them as well.

I'm still trying to figure if it's worth it to go roller with a MAF. If I rebuild the engine myself, it sounds like I might be able to do it.?.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I was at Pick N Pull yesterday and found a donor truck that I'm thinking about using. It's a 1995, but for 200 I can pull the engine, accessories, MAF, wiring and computer. Since I'm I will eventually be pulling everything from my 93, would this be a good route to go? I would use it to rebuild with a set of GT40 heads. I figured I can get a set and have them resurfaced for under 500. Like I said earlier, I have never rebuilt an entire engine, so any help would be appreciated. I'm trying to keep it as cheap as possible, but do not know where to start. Once I have the engine, do I just buy a rebuild kit? What would be a good kit to get? Do I have to have anything done with the block? Would I need to buy a new crank, or reuse the one I have? I talked to a local machine shop, and they told me if I brought the engine and heads to them, it would cost approx. 3500 to have them do the work. That seems like a lot, but I'm not sure??? Any ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So I found a place that will send me a long block with and upgraded cam for a little over 2k. Does that sound like a good deal? I'm going to keep my old engine and start a build of my own... Get a little practice under my belt and see how it goes.
I still have not been able to get, or find an answer fro my question about the GT40 heads in CA. Does anyone know if you can use the GT40 heads in CA and stay smog legal? do they, or don't they have the correct ports in the back for the crossover tube? I have read MANY threads where some people say yes, and some say no. I would like to put these on my reman engine when it comes in, but would really like it to be smog legal. I will worry about the intake after I have saved up enough money.
also, does anyone know if I can go full roller without changing computer? can I swap out the cam, lifters, etc in my old 93 engine with roller parts? does this make a difference? Or, can I purchase a 94, 95, 96 engine from the company I plan on buying the engine from and use it without having go to a different computer or tune?

Thanks for any and all help with this!
 

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it is well worth your effort to go secure everything possible from that $200 junk yard truck. I would get EVERYTHING under the hood. All the wiring/fuse boxes/hoses, everything. You can always throw out what you dont need, but its better to have it than not. Just remember when you upgrade to Mass Air, your talking about a completely different wiring diagram than came with your 93. The connectors on the Firewall will be different, the wiring to the transmission will be different, the wiring to the dash will be different. Its almost worth it to pull the dash, take all that wiring, take the instrument cluster, take the air box, mass air meter, air intake hoses, PCV hoses, vacuum hoses & solenoid valves, engine wire harness, fuse box and all the wire attached to it, take both BIG bundles connected to them, pull the door harness out on both sides, all the computer modules under the dash, just get everything short of lighting. The more wire you pull from the donor, the more likely it will all work on the first try.

Also of note, the 95 model year requires a different solenoid body than your 93 for the E4OD, so it will have to be changed. Its a simple swap you can do yourself if you dont mind making a big mess by dropping the trany pan. Unbolt the old one, bolt in the new one.

That Lightning intake would be awesome to have, but they are uncommon, and expensive when you do find them, and they only fit a 351.
 

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2k is not bad for a long block with a better cam. If your going to get the GT40 heads, either get them to put a set on the engine you order, or have them send you a Short Block and get your own heads. Just keep in mind, if your going Mass Air, you want a Roller Block as opposed to a Flat Tappet block. If you get all the stuff from the 95 donor truck just tell them you need a 95 Bronco Long or Short Block. The only issue im not sure of is how upgrading to the 95 system will affect your ABS. 93 should be RABS only and 95 will be 4WABS. I know someone knows how this will affect things, but I have not a clue.

GT40 heads should have the crossover ports. Heres a pic. The left head has a bolt in the hole where the crossover port goes, someone just tried to close it off I suppose.



Front of the head has 3 stripes.

 
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