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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Have a (stock) 1993 5.8 Bronco

Purchased these parts for GT40 Lightning Build:
  • 4TFE - 351W - roller ready long block - reman

    152373

  • 152374


  • GT40 - Lightning Tubular Upper and Lower Intake Manifolds - RF-F3TE-9K461-EA
    • with OE Lightning Fuel Rail - F2TE-9F792-CC

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    • 152375
  • GT40 - Lightning Truck Cylinder Heads - F1ZE w/thermactor - w/ 1/2" head bolts
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Trans Control: I expect to control the reman E4OD with a Bauman contoller

Gear: I expect to roll on either:
  • 4.10 and 33" x 12.5; or,
  • 4.56 and 35" x 12.5
  • both are roughly equivalent to the stock gear for the given tire size
Need: A9P
Need: EGR valve, EGR tube, and EGR throttle body spacer -

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152378


Working now on the MAF conversion harness and looking for a few parts.
 

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You should be able to use an a9l or a9s maf ecu as well if you're running a stand alone bauman controller. Opens your options up a bit. I like the project, should be a nice upgrade.
What cam are you going to run?
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Short version: I don't know what cam yet.

I'm going to spend a few days reading up on everything tuning related.

At the same time, I'll download something like this....VirtualEngine2000. Maybe there's a better software?

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Then,
  • Pull heads | measure cylinder volumes | enter the data into the software
  • Enter the known flow rate data (for the Generation 1 pieces) into the software

    I should be able to:

  • Understand different aspects of cam grind as they relate this engine.
  • Choose a compression ratio
Gonna spend some quality reading time here... EECTuning.org - Index page

Gonna buy a book about how to build a 351W.

Then, I'm going to

Choose a computer
Choose a MAF
Rewire the harness
Find some EGR parts
 

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Addicted to Junk
85 Bronco, 309ci I6 w/4bbl, np435, 4" lift, 37" Irok NDs, 4.56 w/ Detroit Locker and tru trac
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Looking good so far.

Check out comp cams 35-512-8 or 35-514-8. Both are great for massive torque, especially with factory heads that dont flow outrageous amounts.

If you want top speed, 4.56 with 35s would be good. If you want some more grunt, go 4.88 with 35s. With the e4od overdrive, you wont notice the deeper gears on the highway. The e4od has such a whimpy first gear, it needs all the help you can give it.
 

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you can get some stuff really cheap on mustang forums used, where i bought all my stuff for 3 trucks builds. i MIGHT have a 75mm EGR spacer, TB, and EGR id sell cheap. its all internal EGR also so there is no tube going to the exhaust. or you could skip the whole EGR. dont forget about throttle cablr bracket also. i usually take a mustang bracket and weld an extension on it so i can use a stock throttle cable.

you might just ask the guys at Fiveology Racing and see if they can sell ya a PCM for your MAF swap AND control the E4OD and have a basic tune for your application. im guessing its based from the 94-95 5.0 truck PCM but they tune it for use in all sorts of builds. otherwise a trans controller is kinda expensive. they sell MAF conversions for use with E4OD so they might be able to help you out.

anymore i would recommend a custom grind cam from FlowTechInduction. they dont cost much more than a off the shelf cam cam and will get you the best power for your application. i would count on replacing those valve springs for any decent cam however. Alexs Parts sells valve spring kits designed for GT40 and GT40P heads. the stock Lightning cam is worse than the stock truck cam, i never really understood why they used an old cam profile thats a non-roller HO cam with less lift and duration than the stock truck cam.

note that the Lightnings came with 4.10 gears stock. they defiantly had more gear than the average bronco with 3.55. also tires get heavy and need abit more to push them

i wouldnt trust a program for much more than a basic estimation. i treid a couple and were worthless. one kinda gave a rough esitimation but didnt have enough options for my build, the other saying my N/A engine was making 112% volumetric efficiency.

for a MAF, a good option is the ProM 'bullet' MAF. they can calibrate it for use with whatever size injectors you need and there like $200 and they give you a flow sheet for tuning it.

what injectors do you plan on using?

you mention tuning. do you plan on having a tuner or jsut having a shop tune it?
 

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Eric
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I have one question: Where did you get the GT40 heads? I have a set that the machine shop just found a crack in and need a new pair. Sorry, don't mean to hijack. ?
 

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Planning on similar build for my 1996 as soon as my bronco hits 25 years old and becomes exempt from emissions (one more state inspection to go!). Going to GT40 the stock 351W, EGR delete, two into one exhaust, and harden and refresh the transmission. I have most of the parts on hand, and buddy is cleaning up the intake ports of my GT40 heads. Already MAF so will be a little easier. My goal is to use all Ford factory parts, including an HO roller cam, and build the GT40 Lightning motor Ford should have from the beginning. Will follow closely.


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If I were going to use a Bauman Controller, I would ditch the E4OD and run a 4r70w. Way better transmission.


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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
If I were going to use a Bauman Controller, I would ditch the E4OD and run a 4r70w. Way better transmission.


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Your point being the lower gearing of the 4R70W or is it better other ways too?

We should devise a road test to compare 2 or 3 transmissions using the Bauman.
  • AOD-E
    • 4R70W - Strengthened AOD-E with lower 1st and 2nd gear ratios
  • E4OD -
    • 4R100
We should A/B test.
  • Make round trips to flagstaff
  • Datalog trips with a quarterhorse (don't they go for 2 hours?)
  • Graph relevant variables
  • swap transmissions
  • repeat
A comprehensive gearing chart across both families of transmissions would help.

Do you how the different transmissions compare otherwise? 4R70W vs E4OD vs 4R100?

I get rebuild transmissions from Erica at Pete's in Phoenix. I'll pitch her the idea. The one I got was on the shelf.
 

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i would not go as far to say a 4r70w is way better. they ok till 98 when they go to mechanical diode then get much better. there smaller so they are more efficient. but i would still stay e4od if you have one along with driveshafts, linkage, and probably wiring. i have a 4r70w swapped in my F250 but that was also because im running Explorer engine, trans, and EFI i got all together.
 

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85 Bronco, 309ci I6 w/4bbl, np435, 4" lift, 37" Irok NDs, 4.56 w/ Detroit Locker and tru trac
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Schneider Racing will also custom grind cams. Even their "stock" cams are ground-to-order so there isnt much, if any upcharge.

GT40 heads can be found on any V8 explorer or mountaineer. I've seen at least 10 pair in the JYs
 

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Discussion Starter #15
you can get some stuff really cheap on mustang forums used, where i bought all my stuff for 3 trucks builds. i MIGHT have a 75mm EGR spacer, TB, and EGR id sell cheap. its all internal EGR also so there is no tube going to the exhaust. or you could skip the whole EGR. dont forget about throttle cablr bracket also. i usually take a mustang bracket and weld an extension on it so i can use a stock throttle cable.

you might just ask the guys at Fiveology Racing and see if they can sell ya a PCM for your MAF swap AND control the E4OD and have a basic tune for your application. im guessing its based from the 94-95 5.0 truck PCM but they tune it for use in all sorts of builds. otherwise a trans controller is kinda expensive. they sell MAF conversions for use with E4OD so they might be able to help you out.

anymore i would recommend a custom grind cam from FlowTechInduction. they dont cost much more than a off the shelf cam cam and will get you the best power for your application. i would count on replacing those valve springs for any decent cam however. Alexs Parts sells valve spring kits designed for GT40 and GT40P heads. the stock Lightning cam is worse than the stock truck cam, i never really understood why they used an old cam profile thats a non-roller HO cam with less lift and duration than the stock truck cam.

note that the Lightnings came with 4.10 gears stock. they defiantly had more gear than the average bronco with 3.55. also tires get heavy and need abit more to push them

i wouldnt trust a program for much more than a basic estimation. i treid a couple and were worthless. one kinda gave a rough esitimation but didnt have enough options for my build, the other saying my N/A engine was making 112% volumetric efficiency.

for a MAF, a good option is the ProM 'bullet' MAF. they can calibrate it for use with whatever size injectors you need and there like $200 and they give you a flow sheet for tuning it.

what injectors do you plan on using?

you mention tuning. do you plan on having a tuner or jsut having a shop tune it?
I want a moates QH so I can continue development after initial build. To get the truck on the road quicker though, I'll just buy a calibrated MAF and A9P PCM, probably from fiveology.

I'm interested in 75mm TB and spacer if you still have it.

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate those links and tips.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
i would not go as far to say a 4r70w is way better. they ok till 98 when they go to mechanical diode then get much better. there smaller so they are more efficient. but i would still stay e4od if you have one along with driveshafts, linkage, and probably wiring. i have a 4r70w swapped in my F250 but that was also because im running Explorer engine, trans, and EFI i got all together.
n

Could you distinguish between the two transmissions in a blind test? Based on driving both in the same truck? I'm guessing you picked up horsepower in that swap as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Planning on similar build for my 1996 as soon as my bronco hits 25 years old and becomes exempt from emissions (one more state inspection to go!). Going to GT40 the stock 351W, EGR delete, two into one exhaust, and harden and refresh the transmission. I have most of the parts on hand, and buddy is cleaning up the intake ports of my GT40 heads. Already MAF so will be a little easier. My goal is to use all Ford factory parts, including an HO roller cam, and build the GT40 Lightning motor Ford should have from the beginning. Will follow closely.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I look forward to seeing that come together.
 

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your not going to be able to feel a difference between them stock, what you feel is a difference in the shift firmness determined by the vavlebody setup. but the power limit is higher in the e4od depending what vehicle it came from. an e4od from a 7.3 diesel (ignoring the bellhousing differences) is built slightly different than a 5.0 E4OD internally. the early 4r70w/aode cant much power stock, reason they were only used on light duty 5.0 f150. with aftermarket valvebody or J-Mod, it helps alot but i think around 300hp is considered max. the later 4R70W with valvebody or JMod are suppose to be able to handle up to 600hp i believe tho not exactly long term. E4OD also befinfites from a valvevbody, the Punisher Valvebody is popular on here as the guy who does them will customize it for your useage. but i usually do TransGo reprogramming kit as it does some other fixes too
 

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Planning on similar build for my 1996 as soon as my bronco hits 25 years old and becomes exempt from emissions (one more state inspection to go!). Going to GT40 the stock 351W, EGR delete, two into one exhaust, and harden and refresh the transmission. I have most of the parts on hand, and buddy is cleaning up the intake ports of my GT40 heads. Already MAF so will be a little easier. My goal is to use all Ford factory parts, including an HO roller cam, and build the GT40 Lightning motor Ford should have from the beginning. Will follow closely.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Not to help Hijack the thread, but been there done that for the most part. I know the "How to select a camshaft" page on FSB recommends the 5.0HO cam. Well, I am running one and with a towing type stall speed converter, it IS soft off idle. Not bad or horrible and does offer great driveability, it is NOT optimum. I'd second a custom (or at the least aftermarket) camshaft. I have an Ed Curtis FTI custom cam waiting to be installed. I also have a Precision Industries torque converter with a 2400rpm stall. I hope to be very pleasantly surprised. My point, buy once, cry once. lol

Now back to the OP.

tim
 

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Your point being the lower gearing of the 4R70W or is it better other ways too?

We should devise a road test to compare 2 or 3 transmissions using the Bauman.
  • AOD-E
    • 4R70W - Strengthened AOD-E with lower 1st and 2nd gear ratios
  • E4OD -
    • 4R100
We should A/B test.
  • Make round trips to flagstaff
  • Datalog trips with a quarterhorse (don't they go for 2 hours?)
  • Graph relevant variables
  • swap transmissions
  • repeat
A comprehensive gearing chart across both families of transmissions would help.

Do you how the different transmissions compare otherwise? 4R70W vs E4OD vs 4R100?

I get rebuild transmissions from Erica at Pete's in Phoenix. I'll pitch her the idea. The one I got was on the shelf.
I would suggest with iron heads something closer to 9.5 to 1. But, 8.8 is the factory Lightning and I think regular truck compression ratio.

A properly built E4OD should be stronger. But, the differences for most on this board would be negligible at best. Gearing wise the 4r70W has I think a 2.84 first gear the E4OD has a 2.71, so in honestly the gearing is going to be negligible at best too. I doubt anyone would be able to tell the difference in the same vehicle, tires, gears and different transmissions.

I would suggest a Fiveology Racing conversion with the correct computer for which ever transmission you have. I also think you way over paid for the heads, but, given the parameters for you, I understand. I have a lightning intake but not the "name plate". (I passed on a helluva deal on Corral.net ten or 11 years ago for a complete Lightning setup, because I didn't need all of it----Yes, dumb, dumb, dumb!! lol). Anyway, the cover really makes the intake and I guess I am going to look for one for mine when I do my hopefully last round of mods.

Either way, good luck and please keep us posted on the outcome. The parts you have selected will make a huge difference in driving pleasure.

hth
tim
 
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