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Engine sluggish, dies after starting in a 93

745 Views 15 Replies 2 Participants Last post by  BuckinBronco56
Happy to be a part of this forum and knowledge, thanks in advance for the help.
I’m having an issue with a 93 XLT 5.8L I recently bought. Drove fine for a few days as a daily driver. before that it mostly sat for a half year due to a rear taillight issue the seller never fixed (related to Fuse #13)

Driving home from work I stepped on the throttle a little harder than normal and when it shifted it bogged down, had to limp it home luckily was near my neighborhood. Would barely get above 1000 RPM and very sluggish. Would shift into P, N, D and R fine so It’s not a transmission issue. No accessories on during all of this.

few days later it fires up fine, dies after a couple minutes. Won’t restart. Next day same.

new parts from seller:
fuel pump & sending unit
fuel relay
new vacuum hoses
engine sensors


Checked voltage at TPS and fine. Intertia switch was fine. Battery is fine. Alternator is older but everything seemed to be working fine.
Haven't checked fuel filter yet or connections at fuel pump yet. out of town for a few days on business.

what are some logical next steps I can check?


Wheel Tire Car Automotive parking light Vehicle
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Yo BuckinBronco56,
Welcome to our Big Bronco site!

Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes by my pal, BroncoJoe19 @ Code Reader.....
PCM stores the Self-Test program in permanent memory. When activated, Self-Test checks the EEC system by testing memory integrity and processing capability, and verifies that various sensors and actuators are connected and operating properly.

The engine temperature must be greater than 50° F for the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test and greater than 180° F for the Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test. Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears including Reverse. Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic); or in Neutral for a Manual and; release clutch. Then turn off engine, all accessories/lights (close driver's door) , etc.

Do KOEO test First. Post Code(s) here according to KOEO and KOER.

A helper can assist you by counting the codes. Some use their smart phones to record them.

BEWARE OF FAN, BELTS, PULLEYS, HOT HOSES, IGNITION HIGH TENSION WIRES, AND ENGINE COMPONENTS⚠

Or ask local mom and dad parts stores if they will test it for you.

Or purchase a coder reader such as Equus 3145 Innova OBD I Code Reader for Ford EEC IV Engines at Walmart & most parts stores.

Troubleshoot a No Start @ Part 1 -How to Troubleshoot a No Start (Ford 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L).
□•□
Find out if speed control, if equipped, recall work is completed.
If you still have concerns about Recalls, please contact the Customer Relationship Center:
US: 800-392-3673 | CA: 800-565-3673
Note: 3673 spells "FORD" on phone keys
For the hearing- or speech-impaired: Please contact the Telecommunication Relay Service by dialing 711.
... have VIN ready.
"Summary: ON CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS, PASSENGER VEHICLES, SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES, AND MOTOR HOMES CHASSIS, THE SPEED CONTROL DEACTIVATION SWITCH MAY, UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS, LEAK INTERNALLY AND THEN OVERHEAT, SMOKE, OR BURN. THIS COULD RESULT IN AN UNDERHOOD FIRE."
See this guide by member jowens1126 to confirm recall status @ 93 & 94-96 Cruise Control Recalls Repair
Note that the 93 recall is different than 94-96.

For any Bronco questions or to chat about desired modifications or build, it's better to post each seperately in Noobie Bronco Tech Questions. Flame free zone. This will get more attention and you can build up your post count to get into other sections such as Bronco and Ford Parts/Accessories (50 posts required to participate due to scammers who preyed on our members ).

See 93 Body/Chassis and Drive Train Manuals @ 1993 Ford Truck Service Manuals - Google Drive
In pop-up, Click "Drive"

Here is the 1993 Bronco Dealer Brochure in Google Drive @ 93Bronco.pdf

1993 Bronco Dealer Training Video via member silver70 @

1993 Bronco, Venezuela Commercial @

Haynes Red Manual for 80-95 Bronco & F Series @ Hanes guide 80-96 bko f series.pdf via member BroncMom!

See my mostly recovered site by member schwim @ Ford Bronco And F-150 Links - FORD BRONCO
It contains boo-koo component repairs, installation & parts sources.

Our Forum FAQs includes for example; How to Use Search,
How To Edit A Post, How To Delete a Post, How To Find Your Content and more tips!

Baba Looey's Favorite FSB Links (lots and lots of tech links)including, "how do I get the tailgate glass to...", etc

Try to find time to participate and vote in our Full-Size of the Month Contest & later in the year, Full-Size of the Year Contest @ Voting
You will get ideas by those competing.
Prizes are awarded to Winner; a full spread in Bronco Driver Magazine is the top prize, in addition to a years subscription, once the article is submitted; and a years worth of premium FSB membership!
Al
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thank you Miesk5! guess I'm investing in a code reader :)
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I found a vacuum leak near the throttle body and TPS and fixed that. Truck still shows ABS light during startup and you can hear it engaging and then turning off and ABS light turns off

codes KOEO
111
10
332

codes KOER:
6 cyl showed immediately and thru rev up and down
Code 10
Code 126
Code 311
Code 332
Code 538
Code 536
Code 632
Code 126
Code 311
Code 332
Code 538
Code 536 (stayed on)
STOP test
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Yo Buck,
The numerous Codes appear due to the EEC having the typical leaky capacitor issue.
So, here are some PCM KILLER perpetrators and other causes:
Smell around the PCM. If it smells like dead fish, it's bad.
Look for PCM printed circuit board burn marks around leaking capacitors, resistors.
View attachment 182797
For example, see Old leaky capacitors in swapped EEC and no more codes by jowens1126
Water damage from cowl leaks, ESPECIALLY if you you have wet carpet or mat near driver kick panel; or on PCM Connector due to a bad hood seal near cowl panel, viewable with hood up.
Corrosion or damage due to moisture is one of the main reasons for failure. Corrosion can enter through the wiring harness and moisture can enter by a failure in the seals in the PCM itself. This happens over a period of time due to exposure to the elements.

●A long time Ford mechanic wrote, "The main causes of failure is water in the PCM connector or capacitor failure inside of the PCM. Make sure you have enough Di-Electric Grease in the plug to waterproof it."

View attachment 182796
Overloads.
Thermal stress due to excessive heat and excessive vibration that causes sensitive parts to fail.
Bronco was jump started on reverse polarity.
Connector pin damage or corrosion,
Other internals:
broken tracks,
cold solder joints,
short circuit,
thermal stress due to excessive heat and excessive vibration that causes sensitive parts to fail,
Overheated PC,.
Bad Intel 8061 chip or bad Intel 8361 memory chip,
Bad Internal Voltage Regulator, see Wayback Machine by absent member Fireguy50 (Ryan M)

DIY Capacitor Repair Kit for 1987-1996 Ford @ Amazon.com: ECU Capacitor Repair Kit for 1987-1996 Ford: Automotive

DIY EEC IV Capacitor Replacement in a 90 by seedpress @ Fuel Delivery Problem

DIY @ Capacitor Repair: Ford A9L ECM « Moates Support
,
Although relatively inexpensive, I would avoid Cardone reman PCMs.
Consider;
AES Modules @ AES Modules | Rebuilt & Reman Control Modules

ProTech Auto Systems @ Ford Car Computer Repairs for ECU, PCU & TCU
¤
jermil01 wrote, "In the past I've bought an EEC from these guys before. Good service and fast turn around. Plug in your info and you'll quickly find what you're looking for: Price is pretty reasonable.."
1995 Ford Bronco 5.8L V8 Gas ECM/PCM
¤
G7 Computers @ How Does This Work?
Member gedebohls wrote, " i went with sending my ecu to G7 computers in Canandaigua, NY, the reason i went this way is because i send them my unit, i get my unit checked out 100% and they will then fix as needed. I like this bc I will know for sure if my ECU is or was bad, etc, and I get my ECU back fixed. the cost is $225 plus shipping one way, if nothing is wrong with my ECU i get 100% refund. Once i get my ECU back or get an update from G7 I will update."
Update; "I sent the EEC to be rebuilt by G7 computer and they quickly sent the EEC back saying they replaced a faulty resistor. When the EEC came back I still had the same issues with the bronco , and we spent a lot of time re testing and checking things to only determine that the only possible issue was a bad EEC, so back to G7 Computer. This time they determined a faulty Main processing chip, and stated that the damage was to extensive to replace the main chip, I get it; it is a computer sometimes it is hard to pin point an issue when it is intermittent. My question is; is it just not cost smart for a company like G7 to not want to replace the main chip, or can you just not replace the main chip? So in short G7 sent the EEC back to me and will credit $225 of the $250 saying they get a diagnostic fee of $25, which I also get , "Well sort of get". "
@ A 94 with a Gremlin

Following from seedpress who had some first time capacitor replacement issues:
"I finally pulled the computer and, sure enough, two of the electrolytic capacitors had leaked. Not only were they shot, but the leaked electrolyte had begun corroding some pins on one of the semiconductors. The computer board is covered with a conformal coating to protect it against moisture and contamination, but the electrolyte had also seeped under or through that coating and discolored the board in places.

First I cut out all three of the electrolytic capacitors, although only two of the three had leaked. Then I tried to clean the spilled electrolyte. To remove the corrosive electrolyte I had to strip off the conformal coating where I saw board discoloration. I tried to clean the affected areas with rubbing alcohol, dilute acetone (used for finger nail polish remover), and WD-40. Also, one logic IC (integrated circuit) had three pins that were corroded by the electrolyte. I tried as best as I could to clean them mechanically.

The two leaking capacitors were 47uF 16V, and the third a 10uF 63 volt. I didn't have these values on hand, but coincidentally I had just bought a hundred 22uFs with a 63V working voltage. So by paralleling two of the 22s I was able to get 44uFs, and in series I got an 11 uf. Electrolytic caps have a wide tolerance range anyway, so I hoped that would be good enough. The one problem was all the original caps were 105 C temperature, whereas my replacements are only 85 C. But my computer is behind the driver's kick panel, instead of in the engine compartment. So, I am hoping it will work, at least for a while.

It was a pain to replace the caps! First, I found it difficult to solder the new, "paralleled" capacitors to the printed circuit board. Then, I wasn't sure how many layers the board had -- it's easy to overheat and ruin underlying layers. Finally, some of the copper pads to which the new caps were being soldered were also very close to fine-pitched copper traces. My finished "repair" is a real mess! But it seems to be working.

After all this, the pump is no longer latching up in the run position, and the engine starts. The Bronco hasn't been driven on the road yet. So, I guess I'll see how that goes soon. I am planning to get a replacement computer pretty soon, because I don't trust the old one, especially with my "iffy" repairs.

I'm not proud of my fix-it project, therefore I'll leave the finished product to your imagination; however, if you ever look inside your own EEC, you might want to know what leaking caps look like, so here's the “before” picture of my leaking caps:

View attachment 193930
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Thanks again Miesk, will pull ECM tonight.
I tested voltage at EGR valve and vacuum solenoid abs everything tested out, vacuum seemed fine but haven’t confirmed that with a vacuum gauge. That’s on my list as well.

my next question related to the ECM, assuming it’s got the capacitor issue:
My truck is a 93 but the engine is not original, it’s also a 5.8L same as the stock engine but not sure what year the engine is. Is there a way to correlate the ECM pet number to the engine block / casting number and confirm model year of engine based on the casting number?
They all need to line up I assume?
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Pulled the ECM, looks like leaky capacitor to me




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4
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Going to go the G7 repair route to keep costs low and see how it goes. If it’s trash they’ll send you a full refund and I’ll have to get the new.

question is: how do you prevent the capacitor leakage in the future and how do you weatherproof the ECM area and clean up rust in that ECM slot to prevent this in the future? Behind the wheel well seems like a rough spot to put the ECM….
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Yo Buckin,
Capacitor leakage is age related. Our 96, bought new will need the cap surgery soon.

Moneypit made a box out of aluminum & insulated the outside with header rap. He also put desiccant inside for moisture.

BTW, some consider mounting the EEC (as the 85-86 was) up under the dash to the right of the steering column.
But none have done this, yet.

Inspect EEC connecter harness and terminals for corrosion, & "terminal back-out",
Water damage from cowl leaks, ESPECIALLY if you you have wet carpet or mat near driver kick panel; or on PCM Connector due to a bad hood seal near cowl panel, viewable with hood up.
Corrosion or damage due to moisture is one of the main reasons for failure. Corrosion can enter through the wiring harness and moisture can enter by a failure in the seals in the PCM itself. This happens over a period of time (5 to 10 years) due to exposure to the elements.
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Interesting… the day it started having issues it had rained that morning and there was moisture on the ground, maybe that was the final nail in the ECM coffin. Thanks again for the insight Miesk and will report back on G7.
I’d be curious to hear how that install is working out for Moneypit. I’m sure the ECM needs some cooling holes as well but I’m also thinking about longevity as this will be my daily driver and I’ll need it to drive in the rain. I also saw some gaps in my wheel well and the body which allows moisture to get back where the ECM is, will need to correct that too
Yo Buckin,
Unfortunately, Moneypit Last logged in here Oct 2, 2011

But just in case, I can try to notify him @Moneypit
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well the ECM board is fried thanks to capacitor juice, G7 wouldn't commit to repairing it.
Going the aftermarket route.
I called Pro-Tech Auto Systems and they can get one delivered for $399.
Any experience with them?

ProTech Auto Systems @ Ford Car Computer Repairs for ECU, PCU & TCU
¤
I also called AES Module and they had none in stock.

Also will check out ACE, looks like $499 with 1 year warranty.
jermil01 wrote, "In the past I've bought an EEC from these guys before. Good service and fast turn around. Plug in your info and you'll quickly find what you're looking for: Price is pretty reasonable.."
1995 Ford Bronco 5.8L V8 Gas ECM/PCM
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Yo Buck,
Consider Ford Bronco PCM | ECM | ECU

See their customer reviews @ Flagship One Reviews
Yo Buck,
Consider Ford Bronco PCM | ECM | ECU

See their customer reviews @ Flagship One Reviews
done, thanks Miesk really appreciate it again!
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Flagship One seemed legit... however they weren't willing to agree to supply the part as the engine is not original they cannot guarantee the programming and the plug and play compatibility.

Lifetime Warranty - impressive!

Trying Pro-Tech Auto Systems again
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