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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, I'm in trouble. Am moving to Oregon and thought I'd have this project done by now. 78 bronco, now with a 78 460/c6. After all new fluids were added, dropped the bat in and turned it over and nothing. I have accessory power, heater, stereo, ect. But the starter is not even clicking. Before the swap the previous engine and the new engine would turn over just fine. So I linked the starter ignition relay prong that would run to the ignition to the positive bat cable with a screw driver. A buddy of mine used to start his pinto like this. Figuring this would pretty much bypass everything and turn over the starter. Instead of turning over the starter I got clicking, which also didn't sound like it was coming from the starter but the starter relay. I'm trying to get an idea of where to start trouble shooting, first part I'm going to swap is the relay, but if you tried to start it from the relay it would bypass things like the neutral safety switch wouldn't it?
This is my first Ford project so if this sounds like a common problem any advice would be great.
Thanks
 

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sounds like a dead battery....starting it using the old "jumping the solenoid with a screwdriver" should start it.
if it is a dead battery then jumping the seliniod it won't help much

if it is clicking you with don't have the starter hooked up or the battery is almost dead charge the battery or get a jump start also verify all grounds are hooked up
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Just swapped out the starter relay, that wasn't it. Tried 2 good batteries and I'm not getting all the power I should in the cab. The starter has only a post. Am going to take it off tomorrow and have it tested.
 

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This is my first Ford project so if this sounds like a common problem any advice would be great.
Thanks
Need more info, did you change any wires in the charging harness from the alternator?
 

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I had to switch to a mini starter because the old starter wouldn't turn the motor (71 lincoln 460) over, it would just smoke the solenoid hot lead. Did you build the motor? Were you able to manually rotate the crank?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sorry bout not replying, been busy with work and packing. Am moving to Bandon, but where I stay depends on a job.
I did change the harness going to the solenoid/altenator/V regulator to accommodate the wiring that was not on the 460 harness. After running the wires into the cab I'm pretty sure that's the problem. There were about 3 quick disconnects that were not in the 460 alternator harness. Not snap on but rubber housed connections. I'm thinking this might have been ac, which was removed, but still need to run them. It's still weird the starter didn't turn the motor over jumping it w/ a screw driver. It's a stock 460 and turned it over fine before the swap, starter tested good too. Anyway, a buddy of mine is going to sell it for me if it's not going by the time I need to leave. Really sucks, but can't do anything about it now.
Thanks for the info
 

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how are your grounds? that was a huge problem on my truck. also did you pull the starter and try to throw 12volts at it to make sure it would do what its supposed to do? maby your batt cable to the starter is bad?
 

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Sorry bout not replying, been busy with work and packing. Am moving to Bandon, but where I stay depends on a job.
I did change the harness going to the solenoid/altenator/V regulator to accommodate the wiring that was not on the 460 harness. After running the wires into the cab I'm pretty sure that's the problem. There were about 3 quick disconnects that were not in the 460 alternator harness. Not snap on but rubber housed connections. I'm thinking this might have been ac, which was removed, but still need to run them. It's still weird the starter didn't turn the motor over jumping it w/ a screw driver. It's a stock 460 and turned it over fine before the swap, starter tested good too. Anyway, a buddy of mine is going to sell it for me if it's not going by the time I need to leave. Really sucks, but can't do anything about it now.
Thanks for the info
This could be your issue and is a common mistake in a 3G conversion:

In removing the old alternator harness and charge wire it is very easy to accidentally kill power to the truck. One of the two plugs from the old alternator harness has three wires, a small yellow w/black stripe, a small red w/orange stripe, and a large black w/red stripe. The two small wires feed a signal to the amp meter and are not necessary. The large black w/red stripe wire becomes a black w/yellow stripe wire that feeds power for just about everything but the exterior lights. Without it your truck will not start, will not turn over, and will have no spark.

Good Luck
 

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This could be your issue and is a common mistake in a 3G conversion:

In removing the old alternator harness and charge wire it is very easy to accidentally kill power to the truck. One of the two plugs from the old alternator harness has three wires, a small yellow w/black stripe, a small red w/orange stripe, and a large black w/red stripe. The two small wires feed a signal to the amp meter and are not necessary. The large black w/red stripe wire becomes a black w/yellow stripe wire that feeds power for just about everything but the exterior lights. Without it your truck will not start, will not turn over, and will have no spark.

Good Luck
Any vehicle should be able to start without having the alternator's charge wire hooked up. Or am I confused and you are talking about another wire?

Quick check on the starter. Hook a booster cable negative cable to the starters mounting bolt. The other end to the negative post of the battery. Try to start. If it works, then you have a bad ground path. If it does not work, then hook the positive cable to the starters stud. The other end you can arc on the battery cable end coming off the positive battery post going to the solenoid on the fender. It is easier to do it at the battery end, but should avoid sparking over top of the battery.

But if you have to do it over the battery, make sure to have baking soda handy. It will nuetralize the battery acid if the battery explodes. Which happens often.

When you arc the cable, the starter should engage and spin the motor over. If it doesnt, likely you have a bad starter.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well, this was a dumb and costly mistake, but I figured out the problem.
The wiring was off, but it was only two wires. It should have started jumping it with a screw driver and the starter was extending. The motor was locked up (should have checked a while ago). We unbolted the tranny and it separated a little, engine turned over fine. Noticed that once we started to draw the engine up the bolts on the flywheel were scraping against the dust cover. When I pulled the motor out of the van I never removed the torque converter or the dust cover, so everything was exactly as it was while it was running. After playing with the angle of the tranny a while drawing the bolts in it always came to a certain point where the motor would no longer turn over.
So what actually happened, I had the shaft swapped from the original 390 c6 to the 460 c6 so that the 460 would have the short shaft for the t-case. I was told they were identical tranny's except for the bell housing by a cheap local mechanic. I figured if there was a problem he would let me know. With all new gaskets it is now leaking out the bell housing and the shaft is the wrong size do to the bell housing being deeper on the 390 tranny than it is on the 460.
So I need a new tranny. Unfortunately I'm moving and don't have time, so after much cussing and kicking I'm having to sell it off for parts.
Will never go with cheap mechanics again
 

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Any vehicle should be able to start without having the alternator's charge wire hooked up. Or am I confused and you are talking about another wire?
The stock "1G" charge wire goes from the alternator, coils a few times for the amp meter, and then Y's. One side of the Y goes to the ignition switch for power to just about everything. The other side of the Y goes to the battery + side of the starter solenoid. If you simply disconnect the charge wire from the alternator, you will have no problems. If you choose to clean up the harness and unplug it where it connects at the fender, then you will have the issue I describe.
 

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Well, this was a dumb and costly mistake, but I figured out the problem.
The wiring was off, but it was only two wires. It should have started jumping it with a screw driver and the starter was extending. The motor was locked up (should have checked a while ago). We unbolted the tranny and it separated a little, engine turned over fine. Noticed that once we started to draw the engine up the bolts on the flywheel were scraping against the dust cover. When I pulled the motor out of the van I never removed the torque converter or the dust cover, so everything was exactly as it was while it was running. After playing with the angle of the tranny a while drawing the bolts in it always came to a certain point where the motor would no longer turn over.
So what actually happened, I had the shaft swapped from the original 390 c6 to the 460 c6 so that the 460 would have the short shaft for the t-case. I was told they were identical tranny's except for the bell housing by a cheap local mechanic. I figured if there was a problem he would let me know. With all new gaskets it is now leaking out the bell housing and the shaft is the wrong size do to the bell housing being deeper on the 390 tranny than it is on the 460.
So I need a new tranny. Unfortunately I'm moving and don't have time, so after much cussing and kicking I'm having to sell it off for parts.
Will never go with cheap mechanics again
That sucks, sorry to hear it. I guess all I can say is having a mechanic that understands fords is priceless. Ford is pretty good with interchangeable parts, but they have got nothing on the general. There are probably a dozen different combinations of the C6 and all are unique in fitment. Getting the right torque converter with the right case and the right output shaft is a challenge for the inexperienced. Then, on assembly it is critical to make sure the torque converter is properly seated, with the studs for the flex plate lined up, and the bell housing bolts aligned. Again, another challenge....

As for your problem: It sounds to me like the bell housing was tightened without the torque converter fully seated. This will damage the transmission pump, cause a major trans fluid leak, and will cause the engine to "lock up" The Ford C6 torque converter is challenge to seat properly. Typically it installs on the shaft and you hear two "thunks" The first is the thunk of the torque converter hitting the pump. After this thunk, rotate the torque converter until you feel it slide in another 1/2 inch and feel a second "thunk" this way you know it is seated.

As a general rule for fords, you should install the torque converter and trans as an assembly. This way you can hand install the torque converter and make sure it is properly seated without damaging the seal. Then align the flex plate and engine to the trans. If you install the engine with the torque converter attached to the flexplate it is very difficult to get the torque converter to align with the pump housing. You have to get the crankshaft position exactly correct to the trans pump, and get the trans and engine perfectly aligned. I would guess this would be the automotive equivalent of a "hole in one".

Good Luck
 
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