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Discussion Starter #1
Ugh, during the snowstorm we had on Saturday I got pulled over by a cop. It was blowing snow and i decided to turn on my off road lights so i could see better. Cop "apparently" had nothing better to do than pull me over and give me a hard time. I was expecting a warning to turn them off and not use them on the road....nope he gave me a ticket for $181.00!!!!! WTF :banghead
I'm going to try to fight this ticket, i think it's not fair. The only reason that i was out was i was on my way back from the grocery store. I'm a firefighter and we were havinga winter storm so i bought groceries cause a group of us were sleeping at the station so we'd be ready for any emergencies with the storm.
Any one have any pointers how to get out of this? I saw on the ticket the cop wrote it up by saying the lights were mounted on my roll bar. I don't have my lights on a roll bar, they are on a light bar. Big difference, especailly since a differnece in one word can be huge when it comes to legal issues.

Any ideas??
 

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Show up to court, when you talk to the judge explain to him about the storm, how the lights helped you see, and that you did not know that you could not use them on road. Don't use hand jestures,keep them behind your back. Speak up so the judge can hear you properly, but not so loud that you appear demanding. DON'T say anything about getting groceries unless he asks why you were on the road.
If all else fails, bring some lube and get ready to take it up the ass.:rofl:
 

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first off, look up the statute he cited you under. it will be on the ticket probably referencing the penal code. you can google it to get it. read it and see what it says.

next, i would find out what candlepower those lites are. you can probably get that from kc. if the statute refers to intensity of the lites, compare and see where you stand. you can make the argument that the intensity of the snow was so great, you could not see without them, you were avoiding a dangerous situation, not creating one. it would help if you could state there was no oncoming traffic that you were aware of.

legally speaking, for purposes of where the lites were mounted, there is no difference between a light bar and a roll bar. forget that argument.

after you read the statute (did i mention how important this is) - see where your set of facts fit into it. perhaps post the statute here and we can all read it and get a better understanding.

lastly, i am also agreeing with stang, once the prosecutor finds out you are a fireman and were getting groceries for the firehouse, i'll bet he either drops it or pleads you out to a violation like littering.
 

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The lights are illegal for on road use in PA and should be covered. Was the cop coming at you when he saw you? Did you leave them on? He pulled you over because the lights could impare other driver's vision. Does the fact that you're a firefighter make you above the law? If you were on fire department business you should have taken the Cheif's truck. Go to court and hope the cop doesn't show. Or just pay the ticket.


Copied from http://members.aol.com/statutesPA/75.Cp.43.html

(f) Off-road lighting.--Off-road lighting lamps may be mounted on the roof or roll bar of a vehicle and shall be covered with an opaque covering that prohibits any light from being emitted when the vehicle is being operated on a highway or trafficway. Any person who illuminates an off-road lighting lamp while the vehicle is being operated on a highway or a trafficway commits a summary offense and shall, upon conviction, be sentenced to pay a fine of $100
 

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i know its legal to use a rotating yellow light during hazardous conditions so idk why you wouldnt be able to use spot lights during hazardous conditions unless the lights were directly in someones eyes
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the link to the statute. Hopefully the judge will see it my way. My one buddy who works for a police station a couple towns over says that the town only really recieves like $14 out of the ticket anyway.
So: Clean Dressed, No Hand Jestures, Straight to the Point, and hope for some good luck.
I'll let you know how it goes, i still have 5 days to reply.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Does the fact that you're a firefighter make you above the law?
No, I never said it does. The only reason i was out in the weather was so that we could have been on call incase people are injured in car accidents during the storm or people's house catches fire.
If thats a huge issue i could have easily stayed at home and chanced the fact that we could make it to the station....knowing that every second someones house burns more or someone is trapped. I don't get paid for what I do, I volunteer cause i think it is the right thing to do. All i was looking for was the same fairness from the police and legal system.

Sorry if i'm preaching
 

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Discussion Starter #9
§ 4302. Periods for requiring lighted lamps.

(a) General rule.--The operator of a vehicle upon a highway shall display the lighted head lamps and other lamps and illuminating devices required under this chapter for different classes of vehicles, subject to exceptions with respect to parked vehicles, at the following times:
2)Any time when, due to insufficient light or unfavorable atmospheric conditions, including rain, snow, sleet, hail, fog, smoke or smog, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible to the operator for a distance of 1,000 feet ahead
 

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stangmata50l said:
no, it doesn't in any way shape or form. But as a police officer, I don't think they should be running around giving bullshit tickets to service men or women. no matter military, firefighter, medical etc. Now if he was hauling ass down the road intentionally fishtailing or endangering someones life etc, then OK, give the boy a ticket. I just think that there is a point where a cop needs to cut someone a break in certain situations. Bullshit tickets and harrassments are the reason alot of people don't repect cops and the job they do.

So why not extend the same theory to school teachers, little league coaches, Scout leaders, sanitation workers, etc...? They serve the community too. You know you would be pissed because a cop let a fellow cop off with a warning or a handshake for the same offense he ticketed you. So what makes you better?

Cops don't make the laws they are sworn to enforce, nor can they pick and choose which to enforce. It goes back to a previous post. If you knowingly break the law and get caught you earned the punishment.

You're a college student, it's not like you are defending our freedom or anything,(yet) if I was the judge I would laughed at you. Besides it's not like you're a real member of the Air Force yet anyway :goodfinge

A Soldier, Marine,Airmen,Sailor, Coastie, etc... who just came back from getting shot at and/or spent time away from his family to keep me and my family free and safe, now that man/woman deserves a break in my book.
We're all citizens and the laws apply to all of us equally. If we have no respect for those laws, it cheapens the sacrifices our military members make so we can have the freedoms we have.
 

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Mr. Bnkrtstk. I know nothing about you or who you are, however I am in the Navy and have been on active duty for almost 8 years now. I appreciate all the reservists and everything they do and all the support they give. They are the ones who are fighting for YOURfreedom right now. If I were you, I would shake their hands and give them a pat on their back for what they do. As for firemen, especially volunteer firemen. They to me are real heroes. They walk into a burning building and drag our asses out so that we can live another day to bitch and moan about a guy trying to catch a break. Next time your house is on fire, I really wish that the fireman who is supposed to save your ass is being held up by some cop who wants to give a Bull**** ticket.
 

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stangmata50l said:
Why not? hell, cops around here treat town workers like gold.
So get a job on a road crew
stangmata50l said:
Nothing makes me better, never said I nor any servicemen was. You just took it that way.
Then why post this: As you wrote below, they volunteered.

stangmata50l said:
But as a police officer, I don't think they should be running around giving bullshit tickets to service men or women.
stangmata50l said:
I stated my point of view on the issue and what i would do if I were a cop...I emphasized bullshit ticket. i veiw this to be a bullshit scenario.
You never made that statment, you posted your opinion.

stangmata50l said:
I call HUGE BULLSHIT. Maybe they arn't supposed to...but we all know that isn't the way it works and you have no solid ground to argue otherwise. i know cops, i have buddies who are cops, I've had a few "blind eyes" turned.
You can call bullshit all you want. If the Officer was told to enforce traffic laws that day, that's what he did. It was a slow crime day, so they enforce the "bullshit" laws. So you had a blind eye turned, your buddies are part of the problem.

stangmata50l said:
NO ARGUMENT. But why not try and fight it when it happens? Because that is the "man" or "honerable" thing to do? Screw that. Why, as a cop, not go and find the bigger fish to fry instead of someone driving down the road with lights on that are too bright?
No, but when you lose, don't blame the cops for something you did wrong.


stangmata50l said:
E3 Reserve. Depends on your definition of "real". Go find a reservist and tell him he isn't a "real" member of the military. I recognize I'm ROTC and treat it as such. I took my oath of office.
One of my best friends growing up is a reservist. I do it all the time. He calls me a fat ass desk bitch, it's funny. But when push comes to shove he knows I have nothing but respect for anyone in his position. If you can be called to fight,defend, support, etc.. you are real. Has an ROTC unit ever been called out of college to serve?



stangmata50l said:
WHOA! Now you talk out of both sides of your mouth? Since when does this happen? So those who WILLINGLY sign up to give their life, their freedoms, their health to protect others DON'T deserve a break? only those who have HAD to serve do.
If one of the two deserves one, it's the one whose life was on the line IMO.

stangmata50l said:
I, in no way said to disrespect the law, I merely said that I believe that bullshit tickets to servicemen's brothers is crap.
But you feel you deserve a break, if you didn't you wouldn't show up to court in uniform.

stangmata50l said:
I also tried to make the point the bullshit tickets is why alot of cops don't get respect.

So don't call the cops when someone steals your car, attacks a family member, or breaks into your house. The offender might be think it is a bullshit law that shouldn't be enforced.
 

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drew97me said:
Mr. Bnkrtstk. I know nothing about you or who you are, however I am in the Navy and have been on active duty for almost 8 years now. I appreciate all the reservists and everything they do and all the support they give. They are the ones who are fighting for YOURfreedom right now. If I were you, I would shake their hands and give them a pat on their back for what they do. As for firemen, especially volunteer firemen. They to me are real heroes. They walk into a burning building and drag our asses out so that we can live another day to bitch and moan about a guy trying to catch a break. Next time your house is on fire, I really wish that the fireman who is supposed to save your ass is being held up by some cop who wants to give a Bull**** ticket.
I appreciate the sacrifices the military makes for me and my family. I come from a family of Marines and it was instilled in me a long time ago. If I didn't know everything when I was 17 I would have enlisted too, boy did I show my dad. :banghead

Stang knows I was poking him from a conversation we had before on another board.


If he was on his way to a fire, his blue light would be on, not his KC's.
 

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drew97me said:
Mr. Bnkrtstk. I know nothing about you or who you are, however I am in the Navy and have been on active duty for almost 8 years now. I appreciate all the reservists and everything they do and all the support they give. They are the ones who are fighting for YOURfreedom right now. If I were you, I would shake their hands and give them a pat on their back for what they do. As for firemen, especially volunteer firemen. They to me are real heroes. They walk into a burning building and drag our asses out so that we can live another day to bitch and moan about a guy trying to catch a break. Next time your house is on fire, I really wish that the fireman who is supposed to save your ass is being held up by some cop who wants to give a Bull**** ticket.
Your way of thinking is well, will leave it at that...NO one is above the law, not cops, fire fighters, military....I am all about backing the military, cops fire fighters...but they shouldnt get a break because they broke the law...breaking the law is breaking the law....they chose that job that doesnt mean they get a break....so i guess you would be fine if a cop murdered someone....its breaking the law just like running with offroad lights on the streets....:goodfinge
 

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:twotu: date a cops daughter it helps most of the time
 

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From both sides.....law is law, you dont got to like it you got to live with it....KC's aint appropriate lighting......The cop was enforcing the law, but we all know that enforcement is subjective...you were violating the law, we all know that "can be explained".

No one's behaviour was worse than the other, both leave much to be desired...

If you want to be a man, appeal to the judge on the factual situation and all factors, and do it dressed as a man, and not in uniform. You are asking for understanding, not sympathy.

[END OF LECTURE]
 

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wow bnkrtstk do you have any friends your the biggest bitch ive ever seen on here.
go suck the law bitch
 

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Wow, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.:twak I'd have to agree with bnkrtstk on this issue. Although you did break the law, I think you should have only got a warning, since you had them on because of the bad weather.
 

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appears to me he can use any lights he wants if visibility is less then 1000 FT. Up here visibility often comes down to about 100ft when its foggy
 

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I can't figure out what all the fuss is about.
We all get the occasional ticket and thats part of life.
I have had clean driving record for 10 + years, this is mostly because every few years when I get some minor infraction, I've fought it in court by hiring a paralegal to represent me.
It costs more than paying the fine and theres no guarantee you'll win.
But it saves me from having to take time off work to appear in traffic court, and the worst case scenario has been a reduced fine and a lowered charge to one that doesn't carry demerit points.
My #1 priority is to keep the insurance crooks hands out of my pockets.
 
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