Bronco Forum - Full Size Ford Bronco Forum banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
o[|||]o
Joined
·
11,147 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
One thing I'm generally in agreement with the Republicans on, is Gun Control (or rather, lack thereof). The Democrats really screwed up when they slipped in the Lautenberg Act back in Sept 1996, which basically put a permanent ban on owning guns for anyone ever convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence charge, including police and military. Whats even worse, is the scope of the new law completely ignored constitutional ex post facto protections, and made it illegal for anyone EVER convicted of this misdemeanor to possess or own firearms, and immediately became a felony charge if these people refused to turn in their guns. Thats right, someone who has owned their guns for 50 years, can have them taken away (both the guns AND the right to own one), even if they were convicted of this misdemeanor in the 50's, 60's, 70's.... EVER. They also passed laws making it impossible to have these convictions ever expunged from the record.

Where are the Republicans and the NRA on this? After 5 years in total control of the executive and and congress, they have done nothing to repeal or set reasonable time limits on these laws. Short of murder or attempted murder, I see no viable reason to ever take away an American's right to bare arms (and even then, I'm not sure I agree...). GW Bush has actually been quite a wuss on dealing with Gun laws, at times siding in favor of the anti-gun lobby on the issues? What gives?

PS - I don't want to hear about how bad the liberals suck on this issue, I want to know why after 5 years, this Republican controlled gov't has done nothing to fulfill their campaign promises and fix these broke ass laws. In other words, this isn't a "liberal vs conservative" thread... its a "wtf is up with the gun laws, and what are the R's and the NRA doing about it?" thread. :doh0715:
 

·
o[|||]o
Joined
·
11,147 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Quotes from the Founding Fathers

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." - Patrick Henry

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason

"Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" - Patrick Henry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,470 Posts
Didn't GW allow the AWB to fall? (BTW, not meaning to be rude with this comment.)

I know the feeling on the domestic violence(gun law) charge, as I was nearly convicted of it myself, over a verbal argument(no threats) with my now ex-wife in Colorado. It was called verbal harassment, which is considered domestic violence! I'd imagine that would have ended my military career.
 

·
o[|||]o
Joined
·
11,147 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Blue'87GT said:
Didn't GW allow the AWB to fall? (BTW, not meaning to be rude with this comment.)

I know the feeling on the domestic violence(gun law) charge, as I was nearly convicted of it myself, over a verbal argument(no threats) with my now ex-wife in Colorado. It was called verbal harassment, which is considered domestic violence! I'd imagine that would have ended my military career.
Thats what I'm talking about... MANY divorces end ugly, and from what I understand, many states REQUIRE a domestic charge be pressed by the state if the police respond to a domestic violence call. Basically, if there is a call, there is an arrest. If there is a conviction, you just lost your guns FOR LIFE. First of all, there should be like perhaps a 5 year time limit on the ban, if they INSIST on having one, and further more, ex post facto laws should definitely be in effect on this... This is embarrassing... My wife and I had an argument outside her dads house 10 years ago (we weren't married at the time) and a neighbor lady called the cops (granted we were pretty loud). I of course got slapped with a domestic violence charge by the state (not from Jodi), and being young and stupid at the time, just took the guilty plea since I couldn't afford a lawyer, and they gave me a conditional discharge and a fine. This was before the gun ban on this went into effect. Now, here I am 10 years later, married to the same girl, with a 5 year old daughter... and can't own a gun (legally of course) to protect my family with. :banghead Its unbelievable...

And yes, he did allow the AWB to fall, but that is nothing when they have allowed peoples Constitutional right to own weapons taken away from them, ex post facto and all. Its created an EASY avenue for the gov't to disarm the people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,470 Posts
See, Colorado is like that as well. If the police is called, someone has to go to jail. I met with the assistant DA, they gave me a conditional drop of the charges so long as I took some anger management classes that amounted to more than $1200 for a period of 10 months. I took the classes, being young and dumb, not knowing that without my wife's testimony, the charges would not have stuck. Guess I'm just lucky that I was offered the better option that you were not. Might have done with me asking for an attorney at the time and being a young Airman as well?

FWIW, I'm rooting for that law to be repealed/dropped as well, but the screaming "battered wives" clubs won't allow it I'd imagine. Any politician who called for it to be dropped would be considered weak and be labeled uncaring on victim's rights as well.

Also, don't be embarassed about it, I'm not, and we've all made mistakes along the way.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,933 Posts
OMG...
......
JahWarrior said:
...this isn't a "liberal vs conservative" thread... its a "wtf is up with the gun laws,...
JahWarrior said:
I of course got slapped with a domestic violence charge by the state (not from Jodi), and being young and stupid at the time, just took the guilty plea since I couldn't afford a lawyer, and they gave me a conditional discharge and a fine.
Should have pled guilty to disturbing the peace...
...Try seeing if a lawyer can get you a reversal on abuse.

I'm a life NRA member as I've posted before, and a firm believer in the Second Amendment. I've also taken one life (while in uniform) and broken one nose (as a teenager), but throughout my life, I've demonstrated myself to be a pretty peaceable and non-violent individual. Hell, I haven't had so much as a parking ticket in over 40 years.

But, in general, I do see some merit in the Lautenberg Act. No one who has demonstrated any tendency toward civil violence should be trusted with a firearm. However, shouting on a public street at your g/f (at the time) hardly sounds like "domestic violence" to me.
 

·
o[|||]o
Joined
·
11,147 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Blue'87GT said:
Any politician who called for it to be dropped would be considered weak and be labeled uncaring on victim's rights as well.
So all these politicans the NRA touts as willing to fight for our gun rights turn out not so willing to do so once they are elected then? I just find that interesting... one of the big things people back Republicans on is gun laws... but after 5 years of them holding office, I, a non-Felon, still can't own a gun. I didn't even know about this law until I started to apply for my FOID card recently... Fawkin nuts.
 

·
crank trigger
Joined
·
8,158 Posts
marv said:
OMG...
......Should have pled guilty to disturbing the peace...
...Try seeing if a lawyer can get you a reversal on abuse.

I'm a life NRA member as I've posted before, and a firm believer in the Second Amendment. I've also taken one life (while in uniform) and broken one nose (as a teenager), but throughout my life, I've demonstrated myself to be a pretty peaceable and non-violent individual. Hell, I haven't had so much as a parking ticket in over 40 years.

But, in general, I do see some merit in the Lautenberg Act. No one who has demonstrated any tendency toward civil violence should be trusted with a firearm. However, shouting on a public street at your g/f (at the time) hardly sounds like "domestic violence" to me.

totally. the domestic violence thing is out of control and if the cops show up, someone is going downtown.
now, there wouldn't be so many battered women if they would just F*CKING LISTEN! j/k, one of my favorite jokes.
 

·
Zombie Hunter
Joined
·
13,696 Posts
JahWarrior said:
So all these politicans the NRA touts as willing to fight for our gun rights turn out not so willing to do so once they are elected then? I just find that interesting... one of the big things people back Republicans on is gun laws... but after 5 years of them holding office, I, a non-Felon, still can't own a gun. I didn't even know about this law until I started to apply for my FOID card recently... Fawkin nuts.

That sucks dude.

I went through a pretty rough divorce, and thankfully enough she is the one that ended up with domestic violence charges on her record. I never even KNEW this law existed. But i have to agree with Marv, if you are willing to beat someone you love, how can you be trusted with a firearm in the general public with people you don't know. Unfortunately, along with rape, molestation and other charges, sometimes the person accusing is doing it just to ruin a life, and succeeds.

Marv, i am also a fellow lifetime NRA member. The NRA is consistently wrapped up in some type of battle, and are often very busy, at least thats what i read. Columbus, Ohio just recently bent over the NRA, and i know they are working on changing the laws in that city. The NRA pulled a convention out of Columbus that would of netted the city over 20 million dollars.

As for W doing anything. Unless Cheney tells him to do it, i doubt it is on his agenda. W is so busy trying to fix the sh!t he fu**ked up over the past few years, things like this are getting overlooked.
 

·
o[|||]o
Joined
·
11,147 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Bronco Rob said:
But i have to agree with Marv, if you are willing to beat someone you love, how can you be trusted with a firearm in the general public with people you don't know.
All it takes is what they call "physical contact". the bigger question is, even in a worse case scenario that results in a misdemeanor charge (non-felony), should it be a permanent lifelong ban? And further than that, should the FEDS even be deciding this? This should be a states rights issue. In the state of IL, as long as you have no convictions in the previous 5 years, you are ok... that is, until this Amendment....
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,933 Posts
Warrior, if you can get a lawyer to overturn the "domestic abuse" charge in favor of a disturbing the peace plea, isn't your wife a good witness?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,470 Posts
JahWarrior said:
So all these politicans the NRA touts as willing to fight for our gun rights turn out not so willing to do so once they are elected then? I just find that interesting... one of the big things people back Republicans on is gun laws... but after 5 years of them holding office, I, a non-Felon, still can't own a gun. I didn't even know about this law until I started to apply for my FOID card recently... Fawkin nuts.
I agree again that this law should be changed, but you can see how this would make them look weak on this very sensitive issue. In general, (IMHO) republicans are stronger for gun owner rights. Hence the AWB finally being dropped.:rockon Still doesn't allow me to own an AR-15 here in MA without crazy amounts of worry and hoops to jump through!:banghead
 

·
o[|||]o
Joined
·
11,147 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
marv said:
Warrior, if you can get a lawyer to overturn the "domestic abuse" charge in favor of a disturbing the peace plea, isn't your wife a good witness?
Its worth looking into. Fawkin lawyer fees... :banghead
 

·
Zombie Hunter
Joined
·
13,696 Posts
JahWarrior said:
All it takes is what they call "physical contact". the bigger question is, even in a worse case scenario that results in a misdemeanor charge (non-felony), should it be a permanent lifelong ban? And further than that, should the FEDS even be deciding this? This should be a states rights issue. In the state of IL, as long as you have no convictions in the previous 5 years, you are ok... that is, until this Amendment....

Unfortunately sometimes the innocent get caught up in this. This kind of thing happens all the time. It's kind of like the child endangerment and registration laws. Some poor sap that couldn't afford a lawyer gets slapped with something to do with the dealings of a child, and then has the stigma of having to register as a sex offender and deal with everything like that. On halloween here, anyone registered was required to show up at a meeting so that they weren't on the streets when children were out. Some of these guys ARE innocent, just wrongfully convicted.

As far as who should decide it, the FEDS or the state......Ohio can't figure out how to get the streets and highways free of potholes here. Our state legislation is slow to move, and most of the time, at least in my opinion, make a pisspoor decision. But i also don't want the unfeeling FEDS to decide my life either.

I don't think it should be a lifelong ban either. People become more wise with age. At 31, i look back at things i did when i was 21 and think "what the hell was i thinking?" I think it should be like a DUI, it sticks on your record for X number of years and then is expunged. I got a DUI about 6 years ago, i quit drinking 4 years ago, should i still be punished for something i don't even partake in anymore? No.
 

·
Master of the Estate
Joined
·
3,789 Posts
Similar circumstance for me when I was involved with an alcoholic.
She was abuse, but cry wolf one time and I get arrested.
DA dropped the charges, so no problem getting my guns back and shouldn't have any problem with getting a permit, but could have been real ugly.
Bitch still owes me $2k too
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,933 Posts
My first wife could have been a problem; alcoholic, neurotic, so I bought her a car, gave her the house (and mortgage), took $3000, bought a Corvette and moved on. My second was too dumb. Refinanced the next house, gave her half and kicked her out. The house more than doubled in value and I laughed all the way to the bank when I sold it two years later.

There are ways to solve these problems that might seem silly at first, but they work out in the long run.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,933 Posts
[sermon]
There's a lesson worth learning from Warrior's experience. The lesson is that intemperate words and/or actions sometimes have unintended consequences that may not be discovered for years. When you're angry about something, even trivial things, stop for a moment and re-consider what you'd like to do or say.

Warrior is learning the penalty for something he did years ago. This isn't to say the penalty is fair or justified. But IMHO he did something he shouldn't have done, and now he pays a penalty. Even if he jumps through hoops to accomplish what could have been a simple paperwork exercise, there's no guaranteed outcome.

But even if the outcome is favorable, it will cost dollars and time.
[/sermon]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,470 Posts
Damn Marv, so you're on your third? I'm on my second (wife) and this'll be the last no matter what. If we split, I'll just become a man-whore!
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top