[Davids78Bronco]

Go here http://www.poisonspydercustoms.com/index2.html and look under Suspensions

Don't double-nut it, and definitely don't use any plate of any sort, on the end of the tubing

 

[NOBS!]

:toothless :toothless

aaahhhhhhhh.....no. it's seems you have to reconsider what you think makes a joint design strong.

 

[95bronc]

Thats going to be $24.29 extra for that adapter and jam nut. I can definately see how much weaker welding 2 nuts together would be rather than going with that fancy tube adapter. How did you guys do it? Homemade ways not buying all of this poision non-sense. I know there products are King but I am trying to do this cheap. I think that I may be stuck with going to a machine shop and having them thread a thick insert tube.

 

[Davids78Bronco]

I haven't built a traction bar yet, but when I do, it'll be with quality parts. When I start getting cheap, shit breaks, then gets expensive, which defeats the purpose. Do it right, the first time

 

[mda]

The pic Bronc95 post is "similar" to a way a friend did it but..

You don't cap the end of the tube with a steel plate. The tube is sized to allow one nut to be hammered into the tube. Then weld the nut in. Then use the other nut as a locking nut for the heim.

He built his about six years ago and still runs it on a flat fender jeep that gets wheeled about 50 or so times a year. It has a well messaged 289, 5 speed and atlas tcase. So it has held up to a fair bit of power and abuse.

 

[TTBlows]

You don't cap the end of the tube with a steel plate. The tube is sized to allow one nut to be hammered into the tube.

Well..................I guess so long as you can hammer it in square. I'd wanna use a press personally.

I used the inserts from Avalanche (Avalanche now = Bayfield, Poison Spyder = Denver), but they were pricey, no question.

If you don't wanna use the inserts you'll just have to have some tubing tapped.

 

[montster]

actually I am plannin to do a similar set up with shackle and looks like if i keep it lubed bars will turn (screw and unscrew) at insert so it wont stop articulation or bind

 

[montster]

Forgot to metion you can buy hiems with a female end so you could weld in threaded rod ( I would cut head off grade 8 bolt)

 

[RTM]

I didn't read every post in detail but I keep thinking of a singal bar or triangle mounted to the center of the axle. If a singal bar can still allow for axle warp then one would have to designa Y shape triangle to get around the drive shaft. You end up with something closer to a 4-point set up than a ladder bar but with the mounting points closer to the center of the axle pivot point the bidding of the joints should be less. One could design a plate tha could bolt to the third member bolt, if you have a 9 inch and then mount the bars to it keeping things in the center of the truck?

It's just something I was thinking about and I also have no experience with this type of engineering, suspension that is.

Now that I think about it some one on here had thsoe little toy broncos and they did this center type mounted ladder bar on their toy bronco?

I may build a set for my bronco if and when I get to that point. Of coourse my truck will never see the work loads like some of your trucks do. It would be more for looks I guess.

 

[Blaze]

I didn't read every post in detail but I keep thinking of a singal bar or triangle mounted to the center of the axle.

It's worth it to go back and read...you have to have it mounted to top and bottom of the axle tube to affectivly stop wrap...mounting to just the top or bottom allows the axle to wrap in the oppisate direction...(mounted in the middle stops nothing, except maybe articulation)

 

[collinsperformance]

i been reading alot of different post---i still like the bambar idea....http://www.jeepaholics.com/tech/bambar/
not too hard to make and it does take the punishment. i talked (emailed) with a person that has a blown 351 and this type of bar and no issues and would not change the design. ias soon as i can i am building one of these for my bronco.
mike

 

[TTBlows]

The bambar's a cool concept but it's a little trickier to make IMO. First you wanna make sure that when you stuff the rear end you don't shove it up thru the floor. Second, you wanna make sure the shackle's long enough to allow full droop and travel somewhat in the same arc the springs want to as they drop out. Third, you better make sure your welds to the cast centersection are good, use pre and post-heat.

As for the more standard "Sam's bar," make sure you have enough vertical separation at the axle tube to fight wrap. I forgot how much I have, and it doesn't seem like a lot, but it works. I imagine I'm near the low-end of acceptable separation.

If you weld a Gr 8 bolt you're most likely taking it back to the strength of basic mild steel. Probably not a problem if the bolt's large enough.

 

[Blaze]

i still like the bambar idea

I kinda like that, Kieth has some good points about the extra work involved, but with the right planning, this looks very capable..

 

[collinsperformance]

i been looking at a way arond the cast welding. a tube truss over the center section would give a great rear connection and a wrap around front will allow a tube front weld so the only cast weldin is the axle tube to the housing the over the center truss idea will work fine. i might have an idea to make it a bolt on item just need to weld a spare spring perch to the tubes. i not at that stage yet i need to complete the 3G swap and the smog inspection then i can move on.
mike

 

[OnceWasChuck]

I kinda like that, Kieth has some good points about the extra work involved, but with the right planning, this looks very capable..

Speaking from an engineer's perspective, the drawback to the BamBar setup is that it puts the front half of the leaf under the same sort of compressive stress as the products that seboh is talking about. The only difference is that the force is reduced -- it's inversely proportional to the vertical distance between the leaf and the horizontal tension link. Don't get me wrong, it's much better than a link bolted to the leaf, or a single horizontal link that bolts right to the top of the differential housing.

Ladder bars definitely aren't the way to go if you actually ever plan on doing anything more than Mall Wheeling -- they actually turn the entire rear axle and housing into a giant, very stiff anti-sway bar. Say goodbye to articulation -- and possibly to the plug welds holding your axle tube aligned in your housing, depending on how the ladder bars are arranged and the weight of your rig. Leave 'em to the drag racers.

Despite the anti-squat drawbacks, torque arms (the single central ladder bars of which there are several shots in this thread) are generally still better. The problem you have with them in the Bronco is a severe lack of room to make them long enough. As was mentioned above, this is particularly fun if you suffer from a case of E4OD, a problem I share. However, as a rule, the amount of anti-squat you get is inversely proportional to the length of the torque arm. The further you can get it up the chassis, the better.

Just my $0.02. :thumbup

 

[TTBlows]

The problem you have with them in the Bronco is a severe lack of room to make them long enough. As was mentioned above, this is particularly fun if you suffer from a case of E4OD, a problem I share. However, as a rule, the amount of anti-squat you get is inversely proportional to the length of the torque arm. The further you can get it up the chassis, the better.

I dunno, guys do it on YJ's and I've even seen at least two TJ's that converted to rear leafs and then did something like this. Now that's severe lack of room LOL. I think with anything BUT the E4OD you'd have plenty of length.

Even tho I get some anti-squat it's still better than wrap, and it's more controllable I've found.

 

[JahWarrior]

Speaking from an engineer's perspective, the drawback to the BamBar setup is that it puts the front half of the leaf under the same sort of compressive stress as the products that seboh is talking about. The only difference is that the force is reduced -- it's inversely proportional to the vertical distance between the leaf and the horizontal tension link. Don't get me wrong, it's much better than a link bolted to the leaf, or a single horizontal link that bolts right to the top of the differential housing.

Ladder bars definitely aren't the way to go if you actually ever plan on doing anything more than Mall Wheeling -- they actually turn the entire rear axle and housing into a giant, very stiff anti-sway bar. Say goodbye to articulation -- and possibly to the plug welds holding your axle tube aligned in your housing, depending on how the ladder bars are arranged and the weight of your rig. Leave 'em to the drag racers.

Despite the anti-squat drawbacks, torque arms (the single central ladder bars of which there are several shots in this thread) are generally still better. The problem you have with them in the Bronco is a severe lack of room to make them long enough. As was mentioned above, this is particularly fun if you suffer from a case of E4OD, a problem I share. However, as a rule, the amount of anti-squat you get is inversely proportional to the length of the torque arm. The further you can get it up the chassis, the better.

Just my $0.02. :thumbup

Welcome to FSB, and a good first post too :thumbup

 

[montster]

if you set up the ladder bars angled inward a bit, made them arc very close to arc of driveshaft and give them the ability to rotate at the front shackle would that not reduce the trac bar effect? still a bit cold and snowy out here to crawl around under the truck to see real world effect just cause it seems ok on paper dont really mean sqaut but paper is all I have till it warms up

 

[OnceWasChuck]

Welcome to FSB, and a good first post too :thumbup

LOL, thanks. I figure I might as well try and be helpful to someone, since I'm too dang broke to do much to my own truck right now anyway. :toothless

if you set up the ladder bars angled inward a bit, made them arc very close to arc of driveshaft and give them the ability to rotate at the front shackle would that not reduce the trac bar effect? still a bit cold and snowy out here to crawl around under the truck to see real world effect just cause it seems ok on paper dont really mean sqaut but paper is all I have till it warms up

Yep, that will definitely reduce the effect. It doesn't change the stiffness of the axle "anti-swaybar" itself, but by bringing the front ends closer together, you reduce the amount of axle twist (or bushing deformation) you need for the same angle of body roll, which reduces the effect that the bars have on the truck. However, if you carry that to its logical conclusion -- bring the ends of the bars all the way together to a single joint -- you end up with a torque arm anyway, and ALL the bind goes away.