Bronco Forum - Full Size Ford Bronco Forum banner

1 - 20 of 51 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
how to pull codes on e4od

i have searched, and the best i found is this thread

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/23-technical-write-ups/364682-e4od-diagnosis-thread.html

unfortunately, the link to the "how to pull codes" is on ford-injection and therefore dead.

i have a 1996 bronco and i need to do some diagnosis. step one seems to be pull codes.

i have the obd2 code reader and it's not finding anything. i want to see if there's another place to do it for the transmission.

thnaks
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,781 Posts
the code reader you have will also give you any codes stored for the tranny.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
thanks for the info. i drove the bronco all weekend and it finally threw a CEL. i was oddly excited to see it.

p0500 - VSS

i ordered a new one from my local parts store. i'll test the old one before replacing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
This little SOB was the issue. Vehicle speed sensor was no good. Half a mile later the cel was off and shifting is back to normal.

Obd2 ftw

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
for posterity...

my shifting problem slowly but surely returned. last night i tested the new sensor but it seemed to test ok. however, with the lifetime warranty i went ahead and swapped it anyway. the 2nd replacement tested the same as the first replacement. but in swapping them i remembered one tab from the pigtail broke when i replaced the sensor the first time.

so... i broke down and bought a new pigtail connector. i replaced the pigtail this morning and it seems to be good as new. i'm really hoping/expecting that will be the final fix.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,725 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,725 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
well, over the last few months i've replaced a number of things:
VSS after it threw the code with a borg warner (BWD) S8319 (replaced it twice, actually, as a shot in the dark even though the first replacement tested fine)
and the pigtail BWD PT331
MLPS (listed as neutral safety switch) BWD S9192
and finally the TPS with BWD EC3175

each and every mother loving time, it seems to work for a short period of time, then back to it's same old tricks. well, that's no completely true. it has shifting problems, but the symptoms would change. it finally settled on this process:
cold start - works fine
drive it for a few miles, no problem.
park it. go into a store. (30 minutes, give or take)
drive home - immediately has problems.
next day, rinse / repeat.

symptoms - hard shifts (sometimes), holding in gear too long before shifting (sometimes), transmission seeming to slip and/or disengage (sometimes) while driving.

no codes, nothing.

i broke down and took it to a shop that came highly recommended by a guy who's opinion i'd trust on the matter. i got a call today.
they drove it, no problems. let it sit, it immediately acted up. he found a code for the speed sensor and cleared it. added about a qt of fluid. (apparently it was low) checked my wiring and it all looked good. checked the OHMs on the sensor and it tested fine.

drove it some more. same problems. he did find, however, that it was losing signal from the VSS at times while driving.

so i checked oreilly to see if they had a motorcraft sensor. long story short, BWD offers TWO sensors. the one i bought, plus a different one BWD ABS111. i think i failed to find the abs111 the first time b/c of the search criteria i used. i called ford and they gave me a part number (F85z-9e731. looks like the full number is F85z-9e731-AB). i crossed it and it crosses to BWD ABS111.

all that said, i'm going to give them the new sensor tomorrow and see what happens. i'm crossing my fingers for a stupid / simple solution. even if it's expensive to pay them to do this research, it's still cheaper than a new transmission.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,775 Posts
If the problem persists look into your PSOM. There have been a few threads in the past with problems similar to yours, PSOM was the problem
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,592 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
step one for me is to get the right part on the car.

i grabbed the ABS111 this morning. i talked to the manager and he agreed to give me a refund on the other sensor since they gave me the wrong part.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
well...i brought home the bronco today, still intermittently acting up. i'm happy, though, that they gave me some good info i didn't have before. while the mechanic conceded that he could not consistently reproduce the problems, he did say he could see the speed signal from the sensor fail occasionally. and it would, drop to zero and immediately resume proper function.

if they were to go any further in diagnosing, i'd have to basically give them a blank check. we happily agreed to settle at $75 and call it a day.

so...at least i have a starting point. (if i had more experience, i'd have thought to monitor the speedometer signal with my obd2 reader. now i know for next time.) i just wanted someone to say it is external (that was my hunch, but obviously wasn't sure) or internal to the transmission. i had intended to check the EEC and PSOM before dropping it off, but honestly i just forgot.

i pulled the EEC but it is pristine. the next step is to check the PSOM. but, that may wait until tomorrow. i have some ideas for after that, but i'll reserve them until i confirm/deny the PSOM is an issue.

also, fun fact, there were metal shavings in my diff fluid sticking to the VSS. this is despite having been changed within the last month by me. (was checking the tone ring - it looked good) so, either there was some particles i didn't get or the gears are eating themselves now. that's fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,770 Posts
I chased an intermittent VSS signal loss for a couple of years on my '94. By intermittent, my truck would lose the VSS once or twice a YEAR! I did two things to fix it, I'll call it a fix as the problem has not recurred in two years.
I tore apart the harness looking at the splices and metered from the rear axle to every point I could find between the VSS in the axle and the ECM. Then I bought a PSOM.
I tore apart the dash and replaced the PSOM, on the same day I took a piece of wire, spliced it to pin 7 on the PSOM, drilled a hole in the clutch block off plate and ran the wire to the C185 connector on the PCM, and spliced it to the PCM (which would be pin 58 on your truck, a different pin on my '94 because of different PCMs)
I haven't lost the VSS signal since.
If you get frustrated enough, try this fix.
Schematic of the VSS signal routing is below:



Click this link to expand the schematic:
1996 Ford Bronco '96 EVTM picture | SuperMotors.net
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
well...i have mixed feelings about this post. ultimately, i'm glad to feel like i'm done. i guess time will tell...

i checked the EEC and the PSOM. they were both good to go. so, the only thing left was to revisit the speed sensors and then start looking at wiring. all along, i've felt that it was unlikely or extremely unlucky to have multiple parts of a system fail at once.

i installed a motorcraft speed sensor today (DY1123). i drove it all day today with numerous stops. i tried to make it fail by playing with the overdrive switch. it seems as though it was my failure by not buying a motorcraft sensor to begin with. i think the truck is fixed. shame on me for trusting BWD, i suppose. but also, shame on all parts stores for failing to list a speed sensor from motorcraft for my car!

to my defense, there was no motorcraft number listed for my car at any of the parts stores.

what i find most interesting is a potential indication of WHY the motorcraft is better, other than the labeling. below are pics of all three sensors next to each other. the difference seems to be in the size of the magnet/sensor in the motorcraft compared to the BWD part.

also, good on oreilly's for happily giving me a refund on the two BWD parts.



notice how big the magnet is in the motorcraft


and notice how small it is in the BWD sensors



and comparisons of the rest of the sensors






and while i was pulling the PSOM, i finally got to do another project - disassemble and clean the gauge cluster. the bronco was in AZ most of it's life and it shows.


 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
aaand...it's back. the problem isn't consistent, though. it's happened a couple times over the last 2 weeks, but i don't drive the bronco a whole lot, either.

when i did the VSS last time, i opened the differential and replaced the fluid, which had tons of tiny metal dust particles. i figured it was mostly from the trac-lok clutches b/c they weren't metal shavings, as if it was a worn gear. so, i drained it and sprayed down the carrier with cleaner but didn't actually remove it. the trac-lok doesn't work, by the way. it's basically an open diff right now. that's not surprising with the mileage.

i'm thinking about doing these two things next:
1) pull the VSS and look for any shavings sticking to it. clean it. see if the problem is resolved. hopefully it will be. that would make me feel better about...
2) opening the diff again and replacing the clutch packs. maybe even pull the carrier and axles and flush out the entire differential. i just hate to do all that work and spend the $100 to do it for no reason.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Yo,
What was the ohm reading on the Motorcraft VSS?

vehicle speed control may be used as a good indicator. If it works normally, then the speedometer module is at least receiving a speed input signal and the wiring and sensor can be assumed to be good.


Tone Ring Inspection in an 8.8; "...Take off the rear diff cover. Check the Ring Tone gear. It is located on the left hand side of the ring gear. Look to see if any of the teeth have been notched (from debris floating around in the diff.) Usually a spider gear. If the ring tone gear has been notched, it will need to be replaced to fix your speedo reading. Jack it up and rotate the tires to look for the teeth to be notched/broken/bent..."
Source: by Bighibbi

Tone Ring Removal/Installation (also called Speed Sensor Ring) w/additional info incorporated by Steve
Source: by Dave's Bronc 90 (Dave B)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Yo,
What was the ohm reading on the Motorcraft VSS?

vehicle speed control may be used as a good indicator. If it works normally, then the speedometer module is at least receiving a speed input signal and the wiring and sensor can be assumed to be good.


Tone Ring Inspection in an 8.8; "...Take off the rear diff cover. Check the Ring Tone gear. It is located on the left hand side of the ring gear. Look to see if any of the teeth have been notched (from debris floating around in the diff.) Usually a spider gear. If the ring tone gear has been notched, it will need to be replaced to fix your speedo reading. Jack it up and rotate the tires to look for the teeth to be notched/broken/bent..."
Source: by Bighibbi

Tone Ring Removal/Installation (also called Speed Sensor Ring) w/additional info incorporated by Steve
Source: by Dave's Bronc 90 (Dave B)


i haven't tested the VSS since it started acting up. i'll do that when i pull it for a visual inspection. when i had problems before, i lost cruise. but since i replaced the sensor in january it worked fine. i haven't tried it the last two times i experienced shifting issues.

the tone ring looked good when i did the gear oil last time. maybe when i open it up again i'll post some pics for a second opinion.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
24,725 Posts
Yo,
Ok, thanks!
I ask because Ford does have an issue in their official 96 Bronco Workshop Manual, here is what I have found;
Group 06: BRAKE SYSTEM
Section 06-09B: Brake, Anti-Lock, 4-Wheel
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING
K2 CHECK RESISTANCE AT VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR
Disconnect vehicle speed sensor connector.
Measure resistance between the two pins on the vehicle speed sensor.
Is reading between 800 and 1400 ohms?
Yes
Vehicle speed sensor checks OK. GO to «K3».

& CONTRADICTED by 1996 Ford Bronco PCED, Section 5A:
Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0500 indicates vehicle speed sensor malfunction
DP3 CHECK VSS RESISTANCE
Key off.
VSS disconnected.
Measure the resistance of the VSS.
Is resistance between 170 and 270 ohms?

I asked Steve about it, he said he got this from an older Bronco's PCED:
VSS is 800-1400 Ohms across the pins, and more than 10 Ohms from the metal shell to either pin..."
He said the 96 PCED is more accurate for later year Bronco.

BTW, I added your VSS "adventure" to my http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/16-anything-else/184839-defective-parts-listing-5.html
Page 5. OK?

Here is another adventure,
Defective VSS; "... Anyway, the autozone VSS looks almost identical to the ford VSS. They are both now made of plastic. You have to look very closely to see minor differences. However, the magnet inside does not budge in the ford part, no rattling noise at all. The Autozone part rattles when shaken, ie. the magnet has room to move inside the plastic housing.[/b]It's was a big lesson for me. Wrong readings from the VSS can cause so much E4OD problems...erratic shifting, late shifting, hard shifting, feeling like it was in neutral, as well as engine cutting off at stop lights---Even if it registers correct readings on your speedometer..."
Source: by bkne40d at FSB
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I asked Steve about it, he said he got this from an older Bronco's PCED:
VSS is 800-1400 Ohms across the pins, and more than 10 Ohms from the metal shell to either pin..."
He said the 96 PCED is more accurate for later year Bronco.

i wish i had posted the ohms of the OEM sensor. for the new motorcraft sensor, it was within the range of 800-1400 ohms as opposed to the 170-270 ohms. the new one is completely plastic, so i can't test resistance between the shell and pins now.

and that's fine with me about the defective parts thread.

i don't want to spend the money on the trac-lok discs, but if the VSS tests good, i'm going to have to open the diff again. and if i do that, i'm going to pull the carrier, clean out everything, and replace the trac-lok discs. this is getting ridiculous that i keep having the same problem over and over.
 
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
Top