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Discussion Starter #1
People are always asking me when I'll buy a new or newer car or truck.
My reply is ( if I could afford a new one. I wouldn't.)
There is nothing made by anyone that I would own.
As a technician, I get to drive a lot of different cars. When people ask me about recommending a car. I tell them, don't buy anything built after 2005.
You should drive the car, not the car drive you. The only thing a cars computer should do is fire the injectors and plugs.

So how bout y'all?
 

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Yo StephenL,
I agree!
Some New vehicles = Some new refrigerators;
For example:
Hinges are flimsy, don't let doors swing open and hinges suffer
Gaskets suck
Metal panels like to flex⚠
Prime movers are built to stress themselves and owners' bank accounts.

I have to stop, getting stressed which also occurs to new vehicle and fridges.
 

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Premium 4 Lyfe - Way Back Staff
'95 XLT: 5.8, MAF, E4OD, 4.56's, 6" lift on 33's
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I couldn't afford a new ride if I wanted one... but fortunately for me, those grapes are sour anyway. ;)

My lil' lady picked up a 2015 F150 with a 2.3 Eco-Boo, TwinTurbo and I have to admit, the thing is comfortable and impressive, for what it is.
Her only issue with it has been that she got so used to driving her family inherited '93 Yota that the size of the F150 is a bit much for her now.
Should make a good trade-in on a new 6G Bronco or maybe the 6G BII but not being able to see one yet has been frustrating.

Regardless, I've already told her... I'll be lucky to be able change the oil or even swap the tires here at home, so she better get the best factory coverage she can afford.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I simply just can't stand the newer vehicles. One of my customers has a 2011 f 150 with a 3.5 EcoBoost. Drive by wire which is what I hate. It's like they're trying to numb the driving experience. Throttle response is terrible, you don't feel the transmission shifting. the brakes have one constant pressure. you can't actually feel yourself braking. the steering has one constant pressure all the way around so there's no steering feel, you cannot feel the road.
This is not an F-150 to me. I don't know what ford was thinking. Especially with a full-length center console with a floor shifter. And now I see the new expeditions have a rotary control for shifting. And I absolutely hate these newer vehicles with the push button start. Get in the vehicle with your key fob push the button put your foot on the brake then push the button again and then it cranks for 5 to 8 seconds before it starts. Man I jump in my truck, stick the Key in the ignition turn the key, crank, fire up and I'm gone.
 

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I agree with the key fob thing- mine on my Lincoln died- fortunately I was in a place that carried batteries. What I hate about new cars is the nightmare they will be 15 years from now because of all the features no one asked for or need. Used cars will be impossible to work on or fix cheaply. All that and I guess my next sedan will be Asian because Ford decided to stop making them. The stop/start function on the new trucks drives me nuts- royally pisses me off that I have to remember to hit a button to stop that.
Overall grrrrrr.....
 

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I like both new and old. My Bronco is fun to drive but I hate taking it on long trips. The heater sucks, the headlights suck, the A/C doesn't work and the rattles drive me crazy.
I buy a new F150 every 2.5 - 3 years and I get enough for my trade ins that I get into a new truck for reasonable $$.
I agree on the keyless start. I hate that option, the old lady has that in her Escape Titanium.
 

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Premium 4 Lyfe - Way Back Staff
'95 XLT: 5.8, MAF, E4OD, 4.56's, 6" lift on 33's
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My ol' ladies has a key and remote start (which I envy with our cold winters) but like most, neither of us can stand that stop/start feature and it's totally habitual for her to click it off as soon as she gets in. I don't drive it enough to have developed that habit yet but you can guess what I'm immediately reaching for after my first stop light.

There's no question I prefer the old stuff I can work on (thanks for internet forums like FSB) but corporate America is pushing everything towards the future of insanely expensive, lease rigs and it's a trend I absolutely detest. Right to Repair is a thing and it's slowly but surely being taken from us.

I don't mind if you want to lease your rig and avoid hassles and have money to burn but forcing everyone into the "one size fits all" bullshit really chaps my ass.
 

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1984, 300 L6, smogless, manual 3speed with overdrive.
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Stop / Start feature,,, Wazzat?
In my neck o da woodsy we call that the gas and brake pedals! :ROFLMAO:
I detest newer cars and loathe entirely working on them.:mad:(n)
 

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84 Bronco, 351w, c6, custom doubler, np208, 5.13’s, TTB44, 9”, locked f/r
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Stop / Start feature,,, Wazzat?
Ive had that on a few older trucks.... I think it means your carb needs rebuilt.....

I recently bought the wife a newer explorer, day 1 I had issues with the fob, almost had to walk to go get batteries.....
Overall not impressed with it in any way, fuel economy, road feel, visibility are all crap compared to what I expected them to be for something from an entire newer millennium than the junk I normally drive
 

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Ford makes the best half ton and bigger trucks
Toyota/lexus makes best mid size trucks suvs and car and cross overs

A lot of older vehicles are better buys than newer but you do fight the test of time; Nothing gets better with age!
06 and older LS engine gm trucks; 350 trucks
pontiac vibe, geo prism, scion cars are relabeled toyotas and can be had cheap.
2v triton super duty, expedition, navigator. 5.4 4r100 the better versions for expy and nav. 4r70w which is considered a light duty transmission may not last.
obs fords with e40d c6
2001+ panthers
7.3 powerstrokes

on a gas engine you want to get a naturally aspirated engine and non hybrid. So it's not just everything that the manufacture makes listed above.
 

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Meh. Depends I guess. That whole "they don't make 'em like they used to.." is BS. I'm glad they don't. I remember having to set points and dwell. Cork gaskets that leaked when cars were basically new. Solid lift cams - adjust - rev - then adjust again. Sounded like a diesel. Huge variances in QC. Rudimentary smog control devices that made engines run like crap.

Blame the EPA all you want - but that drive to make engine more efficient also ended up making them more powerful. I've daily driven 30 year old project cars, sleepers etc. My daily now (365 days a year) is a '19 Mustang GT 6 speed. 460 HP BONE STOCK. I can turn all the "nannies" off with a push of a button. Throttle mapping that changes with a button push. Low 12 second 1/4 miles bone stock. AC that will run you out of the car, a nice sound system I can seamlessly link to my phone. I even bought a base model , bough the Sync 3 components used and used a free computer program to program each module so my Sync 3 works like the car was made with it and even have the drive modes (including factory LINE LOCK) that only came on the more expensive models and it cost me nothing but some time to research and find deals on used parts for the Sync 3.

You can literally buy a common used car that runs faster than the fastest of the Musclecars of the 60's bone stock (or with simple mods - mainly traction mods) that has power everything, AC, and is docile enough to drive everyday and it comfortable enough to hop in and drive across the country without needing a chiropractor on call.

I love updating the old stuff with modern engine controls etc.

Computer troubleshooting more problems now with OBD 2 is a cake walk compared to pre ECU days or the the later variants of OBD I etc.

One of my good friends has a legit '69 Z/28. Had it since the 80's when he bought it from a family member. He restored it back in the 90's. High revving 302, 4 speed, no AC (no real Z/28s had AC until 1970) and all. It sat more than it got driven. I convinced him to store the original drive train, updated the suspension / drive train / comforts and DRIVE IT. That's what he did. LS engine, T56, updated brakes and suspension, AC, power steering etc etc. He and his wife and daughters have been across the country in it more than once.

I love the old stuff - but that's mainly styling.

To each his own.
 

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I simply just can't stand the newer vehicles. One of my customers has a 2011 f 150 with a 3.5 EcoBoost. Drive by wire which is what I hate. It's like they're trying to numb the driving experience. Throttle response is terrible, you don't feel the transmission shifting. the brakes have one constant pressure. you can't actually feel yourself braking. the steering has one constant pressure all the way around so there's no steering feel, you cannot feel the road.
This is not an F-150 to me. I don't know what ford was thinking. Especially with a full-length center console with a floor shifter. And now I see the new expeditions have a rotary control for shifting. And I absolutely hate these newer vehicles with the push button start. Get in the vehicle with your key fob push the button put your foot on the brake then push the button again and then it cranks for 5 to 8 seconds before it starts. Man I jump in my truck, stick the Key in the ignition turn the key, crank, fire up and I'm gone.
That's exactly what they're trying to do. The masses don't want a driving experience, it's a chore to them, and they want to be as disconnected as possible. It's why everything is sacrificed for driver comfort. It's why they made windows smaller for safety then threw in blind spot monitors and backup sensors. The newest car I own is an 07 Civic. It's got what I need and nothing else. I'm jealous of the power and efficiency newer cars can manage but they're being stressed to acheive that. These new small displacement turbo engines tend to be problematic. Honda was having issues with the fuel dilution in the new 1.5 Turbo. Some cars are still simple. The CRV while being a vehicle I now hate as of 2018 has a basic 4 banger and aside from some bells and whistles no fancy electronic crap going on. Ultimately this is the way cars will continue to go, just like how every tv is now a smart tv manufacturers will continue to add features to cars to try to sell them to the masses, and with regulations and demand for more power drivetrains will continue to be stressed more and more. I'm now seeing more and more cars shutting off engines at lights, that's going to cause a world of problems down the road.
 

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ctandc is right about the performance of these new cars- we are in a golden age of horsepower, and it is more usable than ever. Even 10 years ago it was ludicrous to think you'd see 500 hp factory machines every day- that kind of power was reserved for elite Italian rides- so rejoice! horsepower has come to the masses!
 

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That's exactly what they're trying to do. The masses don't want a driving experience, it's a chore to them, and they want to be as disconnected as possible.
That might be true - but only where you're talking about average sedans, SUVs, economy cars. People buying a Chevette back in the day or a K-Car weren't looking for a "driving experience" they were looking for a cheap car to get them from A to B. This an automotive forum - so odds are most of us are "car guys and gals". Sad truth is most people don't see automobiles like we do. They see something that fills a need they have, something that gets them around, looks good to them etc.

Trucks unfortunately are the same way now. Ever since 4 door pickups transformed from work vehicles without a lot of creature comforts - to what they are now? Many people buy trucks because they like the look, they like the room, they like sitting up high etc. Most people have never hooked their truck up to a trailer or even engaged 4WD on their newer truck. It is what it is.


Driven a newer Corvette? Mustang? Camaro? They drive / handle / accelerate better than anything made even 10 years ago that didn't cost 6 figures. They definitely are not disconnected.


It's why everything is sacrificed for driver comfort. It's why they made windows smaller for safety then threw in blind spot monitors and backup sensors.
Seriously, I'm not trying to be an ass - but that's not the reason for smaller windows....the main reason is aerodynamics and styling. Take the new Camaro. Great car - except it's got horrible blind spots. One reviewer said it was like sitting in a claw foot bath tub, with a giant sombrero on your head. It was apparently the biggest complaint to GM from Camaro owners. So they actually held a research group about changing the Camaro to fix this. Turns out people like the style / shape of the car as is more than they want less blind spots.

So that's where the cameras and blind spot monitoring come in - not to mention the discount this generates on insurance policies and meeting new safety standards.

The newest car I own is an 07 Civic. It's got what I need and nothing else. I'm jealous of the power and efficiency newer cars can manage but they're being stressed to acheive that. These new small displacement turbo engines tend to be problematic. Honda was having issues with the fuel dilution in the new 1.5 Turbo. Some cars are still simple. The CRV while being a vehicle I now hate as of 2018 has a basic 4 banger and aside from some bells and whistles no fancy electronic crap going on. Ultimately this is the way cars will continue to go, just like how every tv is now a smart tv manufacturers will continue to add features to cars to try to sell them to the masses, and with regulations and demand for more power drivetrains will continue to be stressed more and more. I'm now seeing more and more cars shutting off engines at lights, that's going to cause a world of problems down the road.
They are pushing the limits of smaller engines - but it's not this that's causing issues so much. It's Direct Injection. See some Ecoboost engines / BMW engines (walnut blasting valves as a factory service) it can cause oil dilution and actually can leave carbon deposits on valves. Many manufacturers are already addressing this issue.

To illustrate what I mean about the tunes not being that aggressive - look at F150 trucks with Ecoboost engines and the BIG gains they make JUST from a dyno tune from a reputable tuner.
Trust me - car makers are leaving a lot on the table in terms of power when it comes to non performance vehicles. Think about the warranty limits now versus 15 years ago. My ex-wife is still driving the '11 Hyundai Sonata we bought new in '10. It has 140k+ miles. I did nothing but Mobil 1 every 7.5K and a transmission fluid change at 60K. It still gets 30+ mpg and she drives it like it stole something from here.

I prefer V8's. That's me. But my wife's '17 Ecoboost Mustang Ragtop has over 300HP stock, plenty of low end grunt and AVERAGES high 20 mpg with her driving it hard. It's got almost 50K miles on it. I have a friend who bought a base Ecoboost Mustang cheap as a former rental car. He travels for work. He has 150K miles on it. Nothing done but normal maintenance. He's been waiting for it to blow up - he wants a truck.

Every vehicle will have it's issues. That's the downside to mass production. But the QC on the vast majority of vehicles now is ridiculously good compared to even 10 years ago. You can literally buy the cheapest econobox available and if you change the oil and perform normal maintenance, 150K miles is nothing.
 

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I like new cars, but working at a dealer I see all the scary things that happen with them. That being said, my 2014 mustang has been fantastic, but its a BASE model car that doesn't even have bluetooth. Safety nannies get cut off with the push of a button and then its just me and the car, 400+ horsepower coyote in the front, 6 speed manual in the middle, and a trusty 8.8 out back. I've put 50k miles on that car with nothing but oil changes and putting gas in it. My friends 2014 F150 has the same engine about to roll 300K that gets driven with anger on a daily basis as a work truck, not all new stuff is junk.
 

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This is such an old man thread. lol
Get off my lawn!!!!!!!!

I have been in the new camero thing... “F” that it’s like sitting in a tank, from the outside the window looks 4 ft tall but it’s at such a slant it looks like 8 inches in the car. Don’t remember the year but a buddy had a dodge stealth, went to change the plugs and couldn’t get the back ones... tried toweld a custom tool, no luck. Called the dealer to see about buying whatever special tool was required....... they said you have to pull the engine to change them.... he owns a diesel repair shop!
he drilled out the transmission tunnel for access, plated it over and told the new owner what he did when he sold it a week later.
 
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