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penis
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Discussion Starter #1
O.K. i have searched and to no aval. I was out changing my oil today and noticed coolant in the pan about a quart:shocked. (yes i do have a slow coolant leak thermostat housing gasket is one and I will do a pressure test when I change it) So i figure hell with it I am gonna continue with my oil change and let her run for an hour or so. After an hour of running :cry (bye bye gas) I go and pull the plug out as far as I did before with and nothing a couple of drops of oil was all I got out ( I did not pull the plug all the way) and this was after I let it sit for 45 minutes in the drive without it running. So I came to 2 conclusions first is my head gasket is bad:banghead:banghead second the head gasket was changed and the coolant was left over meaning the didn't do a oil change when they changed the gasket. This is an 89 bronco 302 E.F.I. and an AOD.

So my question is how can I narrow it down to the head gasket?? and has anyone run across this before??
 

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Lick my balls
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Do a compression test. Is your exhaust extra steamy looking?
 

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if i remember right if you have a headgasket out u could open your radiator cap (before engine is warm) and if you have air bubbles then you have a head gasket out...i think that was howu checked but im not absoutely sure
 

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Anybody, even an idiot would change the oil after changing head gasket. Wouldnt they?
An hour of running may not equal 1 qt. of antifreeze in the oil, you may have to run it alot more than that if you have just a minor leak. You need to to do some more diagnostics before you reach any conclusions.
 

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penis
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Discussion Starter #5
Do a compression test. Is your exhaust extra steamy looking?
Exhaust is not steamy nore do I smell burning coolant.

if i remember right if you have a headgasket out u could open your radiator cap (before engine is warm) and if you have air bubbles then you have a head gasket out...i think that was howu checked but im not absoutely sure
There are air bubbles could those be it. I think those might be from the thrmostat house gasket. I do have a puddle of coolant on the intake by the distributor thou. But if it is running why don't I lose any coolant??
 

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penis
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Discussion Starter #6
Anybody, even an idiot would change the oil after changing head gasket. Wouldnt they?
An hour of running may not equal 1 qt. of antifreeze in the oil, you may have to run it alot more than that if you have just a minor leak. You need to to do some more diagnostics before you reach any conclusions.
Well I guess i bought this off an idiot I mean he rigged the tailights to work with speaker wire. I did have it running for about 2 hours and I will check to see if I get coolant in the oil in the morning.
 

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I just dont see where anyone would do a head gasket and not the oil.
As I said you may need to drive it quite a bit more before you get enough antifreeze in the oil to detect.
 

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penis
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Discussion Starter #8
O.k went out and checked it one last time before bed and I am losing coolant somewhere. I pulled the rad. cap off and it was under pressure and low on coolant on a cold engine. WTF I don't want to do a head gasket ahhhh well perfomance heads and exhaust here I come I guess. But I will fix the leak first and go from there to triple check.
 

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CheeseBurger Milkshake!!
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Do a pressure test on the coolant system.

Also, do a leakdown test on each cylinder with the radiator cap off.
 

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Coolant in the oil does not necessarily mean a bad head gasket. Typically a blown head gasket and the engine will burn coolant. You already ruled that out with no white smoke or burning coolant smell. If teh head gasket were breached only between an oil galley and a coolant passage, which is incredibly unlikely, but possible, then there should be oil in the coolant, possibly a small amount in the oil, but not a quart. The oil is under higher pressure than the coolant. An oil return, passage could do it, but these are big ifs. I would guess a more likely candidate for that much coolant in the oil is the intake manifold gasket. The lifter valley has lots of oil returns to the pan and is under very little pressure. A coolant passage from the heads to the lower intake could easily result in what you are describing. There is also a possibility that a head gasket is breached from a coolant passage into the lifter valley, but again, I would say unlikely.

Do yourself a favor and follow the advise in this thread. Do a compression and cylinder leak down test before you start tearing it apart. Do a cooling system pressure test as well. Take one thing at a time, and inspect all gaskets as you are taking it apart. The intake has to come off first for a head gasket change, inspect it for any defects before you pull the heads.

Another possibility is that the block is cracked somewhere. Just one more reason to test before you get carried away ordering new heads and chit. You may have to put in a new block. Take one thing at a time, figure it out and then repair it. Don't throw new parts at it or you may end up kicking your own butt!

Later,
Jason
 

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penis
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Discussion Starter #11
O.K went and did a leak down test and it is holding coolant so I am ruling out the possibility of a head gasket.... Thinking more along the lines of another coolant leak else where and will have to track it down. May be intake or an external leak in the system I cannot find. Ohh I left the cap off for 2 days without the engine runningand it is still at the same level.
 

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Coolant in the oil does not necessarily mean a bad head gasket. Typically a blown head gasket and the engine will burn coolant. You already ruled that out with no white smoke or burning coolant smell. If teh head gasket were breached only between an oil galley and a coolant passage, which is incredibly unlikely, but possible, then there should be oil in the coolant, possibly a small amount in the oil, but not a quart. The oil is under higher pressure than the coolant. An oil return, passage could do it, but these are big ifs. I would guess a more likely candidate for that much coolant in the oil is the intake manifold gasket. The lifter valley has lots of oil returns to the pan and is under very little pressure. A coolant passage from the heads to the lower intake could easily result in what you are describing. There is also a possibility that a head gasket is breached from a coolant passage into the lifter valley, but again, I would say unlikely.

Do yourself a favor and follow the advise in this thread. Do a compression and cylinder leak down test before you start tearing it apart. Do a cooling system pressure test as well. Take one thing at a time, and inspect all gaskets as you are taking it apart. The intake has to come off first for a head gasket change, inspect it for any defects before you pull the heads.

Another possibility is that the block is cracked somewhere. Just one more reason to test before you get carried away ordering new heads and chit. You may have to put in a new block. Take one thing at a time, figure it out and then repair it. Don't throw new parts at it or you may end up kicking your own butt!

Later,
Jason
Nice diag tip! You also might want do the leak down and coolant press test on a cold motor and again on a heat soaked motor. Gaskets, heads, blocks, ect... do expand and contract.
 

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dabranco:
What about "freeze plugs" leaking, my 86 had one on the back of the drivers side cylinder head where the thermactor cross-over tube bolts on. I managed to replace it from underneath with a Ford OEM from the stealership, PITA spot to get at. If so Napa has expandable rubber ones that come in diferent sizes for around $7.00 ~ Ford Stealership was $2.00 each.

I also agree, do a pressure test with a pressure guage on the radiator and that will show where the leak is coming from.

If you're running the motor with the radiator cap off and the coolant is racing/boiling with a burnt smell, that's a good indication the head gasket is blown. Air bubbles can be deceptive if the system hasn't been bled.

Good Luck ~ :thumbup
 

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penis
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Discussion Starter #14
dabranco:
What about "freeze plugs" leaking, my 86 had one on the back of the drivers side cylinder head where the thermactor cross-over tube bolts on. I managed to replace it from underneath with a Ford OEM from the stealership, PITA spot to get at. If so Napa has expandable rubber ones that come in diferent sizes for around $7.00 ~ Ford Stealership was $2.00 each.

I also agree, do a pressure test with a pressure guage on the radiator and that will show where the leak is coming from.

If you're running the motor with the radiator cap off and the coolant is racing/boiling with a burnt smell, that's a good indication the head gasket is blown. Air bubbles can be deceptive if the system hasn't been bled.

Good Luck ~ :thumbup
Well with the engine warm thermostat open (180 degrees) and it only drops a half quart per hour if that. If I let it sit warm or cold it is a sometimes situation sometimes I lose coolant sometimes I don't. It is like an air pocket but the system is bled out no air in the systam and heat is hot.

I did notice coolant located by the thermostat. I think it might be the thermostat gasket or the tube behind the dizzy??

But at least I shouldn't have to do headgaskets :rockon
 

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Lick my balls
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Anybody, even an idiot would change the oil after changing head gasket. Wouldnt they?
An hour of running may not equal 1 qt. of antifreeze in the oil, you may have to run it alot more than that if you have just a minor leak. You need to to do some more diagnostics before you reach any conclusions.
Why would you have to change the oil after replacing a head gasket?
I never have unless it was due, with no ill effects. If you are replacing a head gasket then you will be draining the coolant so that would be a non issue.
Do yourself a favor and follow the advise in this thread. Do a compression and cylinder leak down test before you start tearing it apart. Do a cooling system pressure test as well. Take one thing at a time, and inspect all gaskets as you are taking it apart. The intake has to come off first for a head gasket change, inspect it for any defects before you pull the heads.

Another possibility is that the block is cracked somewhere. Just one more reason to test before you get carried away ordering new heads and chit. You may have to put in a new block. Take one thing at a time, figure it out and then repair it. Don't throw new parts at it or you may end up kicking your own butt!

Later,
Jason
I was thinking a cracked head or block as well
O.K went and did a leak down test and it is holding coolant so I am ruling out the possibility of a head gasket.... Thinking more along the lines of another coolant leak else where and will have to track it down. May be intake or an external leak in the system I cannot find. Ohh I left the cap off for 2 days without the engine runningand it is still at the same level.
I think by leak down test you are supposed to see how long it takes a cylinder under compression to leak out the pressure
Well with the engine warm thermostat open (180 degrees) and it only drops a half quart per hour if that. If I let it sit warm or cold it is a sometimes situation sometimes I lose coolant sometimes I don't. It is like an air pocket but the system is bled out no air in the systam and heat is hot.

I did notice coolant located by the thermostat. I think it might be the thermostat gasket or the tube behind the dizzy??

But at least I shouldn't have to do headgaskets :rockon
Do a pressure test of the cooloing system to see that is is holding pressure. It should not loose pressure since it is a sealed system or at least should be. You may want to make sure all your hose clamps are tight. Perhaps the guy that did your head gasket did not drain the coolant and filled up your cylinders with water, which may explain your oil/water situation and then the ongoing coolant leak could be a loose hose clamp.
 

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penis
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Discussion Starter #16
Why would you have to change the oil after replacing a head gasket?
I never have unless it was due, with no ill effects. If you are replacing a head gasket then you will be draining the coolant so that would be a non issue.

I was taught to do this to prevent the coolant from being in the oil and damaging major engine components.

I was thinking a cracked head or block as well

It cannot be the block or head since I am not losing coolant when the engine is not running

I think by leak down test you are supposed to see how long it takes a cylinder under compression to leak out the pressure


Do a pressure test of the cooloing system to see that is is holding pressure. It should not loose pressure since it is a sealed system or at least should be. You may want to make sure all your hose clamps are tight. Perhaps the guy that did your head gasket did not drain the coolant and filled up your cylinders with water, which may explain your oil/water situation and then the ongoing coolant leak could be a loose hose clamp.
Two parts are hard to explain on the last one one.
First if the cylinders were filled up with water it should cause a hydralock of the cylinder(s)
Second I have double check all the clamp and they are tight

I am thinking more of a bad gasket or seal somewhere else
 

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Lick my balls
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Two parts are hard to explain on the last one one.
First if the cylinders were filled up with water it should cause a hydralock of the cylinder(s)
Second I have double check all the clamp and they are tight

I am thinking more of a bad gasket or seal somewhere else
No, what I meant about water going in the cylinders, was when the head gasket was replaced, if the coolant was not removed first, then the cylinders could have filled with water and seeped into the oil pan. When was the head gasket replaced before you noticed the water in the oil and who did it?

You need to work on that quote thing, I almost didn't notice your responses.
Like I said, if you drain the coolant, none will go into the block. Also, just because you are not losing coolant when it is not running, does not mean you do not have a cracked block or head.
 

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OK maybe I'm going in the wrong direction but when I had problems and came across internal coolant leaks in a engine weather is be a bad gasket or a cracked block the oil was turned into a milky solution not a oil and antifreeze seperated if antifreeze is in the oilpan the oil pump would picking it up and mix it up and blend it together. You stated you have a external leak maybe it's running down along the outside and dripping into the catch pan.
 

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penis
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Discussion Starter #19
OK maybe I'm going in the wrong direction but when I had problems and came across internal coolant leaks in a engine weather is be a bad gasket or a cracked block the oil was turned into a milky solution not a oil and antifreeze seperated if antifreeze is in the oilpan the oil pump would picking it up and mix it up and blend it together. You stated you have a external leak maybe it's running down along the outside and dripping into the catch pan.
Not milky solution was completely seperated oil on tot and coolant on the bottom. Also as for the cracked block idea I was meaning that the coolant would have to transfer either into the cylinder (which as i stated before was not happening or at least not showing symptoms of) or it would have to be a crack between the oil coolant passage which should cause oil to show up in the radiator or the milky situation as described.
 
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