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Discussion Starter #1
First let me say thank you to Ryan (Fireguy50) for some sound advice and help he gave me today for my new engine. Thanks dude. :thumbup
I am goingto start with this5.8L Block with a mild cam (whatever they offer) and no heads (short block). Then I am going for either the GT40 cast Iron heads or the Edelbrock Performer Heads. The Edelbrock have bigger intake valves than do the GT40 but I don't know if that will make much of a difference. At this point I am hoping to be around $2250-$2500. Then I am going for this Edelbrock Performer Intake at the top of the page. Now I should be around $3100+. But now I want to do what Ryan said and get a larger, single throttle body for a Mustang like this one and do Mass-Air. Then I employ Ryans expertise and have him fix my harness for me so I can run a mustang computer and do the mass air. I have found a couple computers on ebay that will work for around $100. So at this point I should be around $3500-$3750. Add in a few hundred more for plugs, wires valve covers and that kind of stuff and I am thinking I will be around $4000. I am not sure about the exhaust yet but I am thinking it would be a mistake not to do headers so thats going to up the anty.
Now I am sure I am missing something and that's why I ask you all. It appears as if everything will be bolt on but I know things are not always as they apear. What am I missing? Will my stock injectors be ok with this setup? Thanks for everyones help on this. I will be spending a good part of the day tomorrow doing more research and talking with dealers to see if I am in the right frame of mind and to see if my ideas are actually going to work. Sorry this was so long. :goodfinge
 

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Discussion Starter #4
78bronco460 said:
Man if you're an idiot, you're a RICH idiot! :thumbup
Yeah well that $4k is definatly at the high end. $3K or a little more is much better. Ryan you still say I should go with the GT40 Iron heads or would the Edelbrock aluminum match up with everything else better?
 

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I was gonna say Holley SysteMax II could be something to look into, but I can't find one for a 351. So the intake wouldn't fit. Oh well I tried. Just don't forget to include all of the small stuff into your budget like pushrods, rocker arms, gaskets, bolts etc. Fireguy will probablly back me up on this if he didn't already suggest it, but get a set of 24lb injectors and a meter that is calibrated for them as well.
 
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Wow! Sounds good to me. I'm power happy and would look to stroke it, add larger injectors/MAF, and a custom chip or tuner to make it work right.
I bought Ford Racings Mass air conversion and payed too Much! Get the harness from Ryan, MAF, computer, and perhaps injectors from yards/ebay. I have an A9L and a A3M1 computer. If you are in the market, PM me.
I would get a 70mm MAF and I see no need for larger injectors unless you go with an agressive cam, but then you lose low end torque. I've heard nothing but good things about the GT-40 heads. I would not go aluminium. I believe the iron heads will last longer. Don't know if it's true, but I could see overheating once with aluminium heads, warping them and losing your investment. Super-Larger more bigger heads is not best for low end torque. So I was told after I bought roush heads, 2.02 1.60 valves and 200cc intake tunners. I was told the GT-40's with 1.80 intake valves would produce a little better low end torque.
There is a performance engine builder in Denver that may be of help to you. Get prices from them. You may be able to get a stroker close to the price of a stocker. Engine & Performance Warehouse 800 888-8970 or 800 572-8844.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok guys, here is an update, agian thanks for the help. Here is what I have found today. I can have my block rebuilt by a local shop using high quality parts and a better cam for low end torque. He thought it would cost between $1500 and $2000. The engine I was looking at before was out in Washington. So on there $1000 short block add $200 shipping and $150 core for about $1400. I figure it is worth the extra few hundred $$$ to have it done here and by someone who sounded like he knew what he was doing and seemed to be a nice guy. I don't understand how the other company can sell a quality rebuilt engine for $1000. My feeling has always been you get what you pay for.
The Jackass at summit said the heads that you recommended Ryan, are not good for low end power. They are made for high RPM applications. He said to go with the edelbrock heads because they are a direct bolt on and offer good low end power. He said the reliability of the aluminum head is no longer an issue. Ah who to believe. Anyway he was giving me all sorts of crap about the intakes and trottle body for the Mustang. What you recommended is fine Ryan plus whatever throttle body I choose. By the way what would be a good size, 65mm, 70mm? It seems the only other issue is the Mass Air which Ryan says he can overcome. Chris, I see yours has MASS air. Did you use the mustang computer or did you get a whole kit? I am a bit concerned about everything running together especially with two computers. I am also going to use my stock injectors after having them checked and cleaned. Man this is alot of work and I have not even got any greas or oil on me yet.
 

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Which Chris are you asking? If you are talking to me, I bought a kit from FMS through Summit. If I had to do it over, I would go through Ryan and peice together a better, less costly setup. If he is providing a computer and harness, then all you need is a meter with matching injectors. If you plan to reuse the injectors that you have, then just by a meter that is calibrated for that size injector. IMO a 65mm t-body and meter will be best for good street manners. However, a 65mm t-body plus a 70mm meter is also a popular setup on 'weekend drag racer' mustangs, and should prove to work well for you too. :thumbup
 

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Oh, I forgot. Aluminum heads are said to be a bad idea because...

They were originally intended for drag racing. They are light weight, which makes the car lighter, and makes the heads easier to swap at the track. The problem is that aluminum absorbs the heat faster, killing power. Obviously, this isn't a problem in 1/4 mile.
Cast iron heads can and do make the same power, without the loss of power do to heat. Cast iron heads are also less likely to warp the way that aluminum heads do. It is also said that because of the cast iron heads handling the heat better, they cause better gas mileage and less chance for detination. They are usually cheaper than aluminum too.

So long story short, aluminum heads are for race engines, and cast iron are for vehicles driven a lot in changing conditions such as weather. It makes sence to me, but weather it's 100% true :shrug
 

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I got GT40P iron heads with 1.84/1.46 valves. Low end torque is out of this world, but they stop flowing at 3500RPM in my 363 cube engine. They are nice, but really ment for 5.0L engines.
Swat; you to swap heads ;) ???? :D

65mm seems to be the ideal throttle for 5.0L, but I would recomend a 70mm throttle body for a 351. you can find throttle / EGR spacer kits used for cheaper. 1/4 mile kids buy and sell them daily.
 

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you know what, you 'all suck :) when i have my bored and stroked caddy 500 in my truck i teach ya a lesson...oh wait its just a hopped up 351....damn i need some money..lol





OH, switch to a CARB and it will solve all your probs ;)
 

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aluminum heads are used on alot of production vechicles now adays. my dads trans am has em. so actually they arnt all that bad. also the heat issus cast iron takes longer to heat up but holds heat much longer (think cast iron stoves). aluminum heats up quicker but disipates more heat (think heat sinks).
 

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Discussion Starter #14
jerry 1 a b said:
Which Chris are you asking?
I was referring to Blown but thanks for your input. Everyone has different theories on the Iron vs. Aluminum debate. The reason I was going toward the Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads was because I read that the GT40P heads were no longer available. The other GT40 heads are for high RPM applications.
I would recomend a 70mm throttle body for a 351. you can find throttle / EGR spacer kits used for cheaper
So I will need an EGR spacer kit huh? Can I assume my stock EGR will bolt up to my new Edelbrock 70mm TB for a Mustang?
 

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Fireguy50 said:
Chris, I've got 2 BIG projects I must be recieved at the customer by this Friday. not sure if it's going to happen with the 1st. I don't really have the time to give you researched and educated answers. I'll try to call you tomorow, or another time if you have a better option.
:beer

Stuff for the new single throttle intake
Throttle: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL-3825
EGR spacer: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=12620
Both can be found cheaper on ebay
No sweat Ryan. I will be in NY City for new years until Friday. Deal with your other projects and when you have the time call me and we'll talk. I actually found a couple TB and EGR plates (70mm) on Ebay last night for half the price. I am going over to the Machine shop today to talk with the guy. I hope to have the engine out and to him by Monday or Tuesday but who knows. Again call me when you have the time. :thumbup
 
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Chris in pueblo

Sorry for the late reply, I spent yesterday working on my bronc and getting some little tid bits from a wrecking yard.
Regarding:
"Chris, I see yours has MASS air. Did you use the mustang computer or did you get a whole kit? I am a bit concerned about everything running together especially with two computers. I am also going to use my stock inj"ctors after having them checked and cleaned.
I payed too much $$$ for Fords conversion which came with a 55mm MAF housing, too small, bought a 70mm, more $$$, but did make for a noticeable improvement. The computer that came with the conversion is the same as they sell for a mustang, an A3M1 in my case which is for a manual tranny.
You need a computer to control your automatic Tranny. :banghead :twak My computer won't work, by itself, for you without a chip or tuner. These are the kits Ford makes:

FMS-M9000T51 Ford: 1987-93 5.0L/5.8L EFI F150-350, AOD automatic transmission only, mass air conversion kit Today $689.95. (AOD tranny only) I'm sure it also comes with a small 55mm meter/housing. You might be able to sell it on ebay.

FMS-M9000-L58 Ford: 1993-95 5.8 Lightining only, E4OD tranny only, 80mm mass air meter and 30lb injectors.

The local Ford dealer here in Pueblo handles their racing stuff if you need a source. I have Ford Racings 2003 catalog. I bought from Summit. I certainly can't give you the specifics Ryan can on this. I seem to recall a post on using two computers, one for the mass air and one to control your tranny, but I'm not sure. I think this is what you are referring to when you say two computers. That may be the only way to get your A4OD tranny to work with mass air unless Ford Racings sells a kit they do not list. I tried their tech line and they don't answer today. It is (586) 468-1356. I see three possible options, Ryan's help, two computers and harness, Ford racing if they can sell a computer to fit your tranny with the mass air conversion (bling bling), or any programmable computer and a chip or tuner. This gets more complcated, but the tuner will allow for future mods, chips have to get burned again with significant mods. You could always add the chip or tuner down the road if you mod further. I would piece it together with Ryans help! You will get better components and save $'s if you make our own kit. I doth write a book, sorry! Oh!, Cam, heads, headers??? You may need larger injectors stock 19ers support up to 310 hp and your engine will be close to that. I like Summits shorty headers.
 

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Actually, the FMS kit is specified for AOD, and not E4OD. Is that what you meant?

Baumann Engineering has electronic transmission controls for using electronic trannies in older vehicles. You could check that out if you like.

And here is the Baumannator. This thing is cool!
 
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Sidebar for Ryan: I might swap you heads if you could supply the edlebrock intake I want and a weekend to do em together! Then you'd have to put up with me, BeeeeYatch! I like my heads and do not know flow and torque. A Ford Tech told me that your heads would produce a little better low end torque. Would they?
 
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jerry 1 a b said:
Actually, the FMS kit is specified for AOD, and not E4OD. Is that what you meant?



Yes, but I would call em to see if the lightning kit would work or if they would substitute that computer. The 30lber's and 80mm meter would probably be too much. The tranny controller is cool if you were just to add the tranny to a vehicle, good find! A tuner allow tranny control tuning as well as engine tuning and probably at about the same price.
 
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