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Discussion Starter #1
I have been all hung-up on the diesel swap. After ALOT of contemplation and input from friends I am now considdering rebuilding/ building a SBF.

The goal would be to build a true stump pulling torque MONSTER. I know it could never be a tuned 6bt but I would like to get as close as possible. For this discusion I would like to keep it entirely SBF, I know a 460 would be torquey, it's not a SBF. I would like to keep it EFI and emissions compliant, regular 87 octane. And lets leave the cost out of the discusion as well, all about THE BUILD.

I really don't know what is doable with the above mentioned criteria.

I know that the 94-95 roller 5.8 would be a good start, headers, exhaust, a little intake mod. I know that cam selection is huge and I have read the "cam threads". Simmer down search NAZI's!! But this where it all gets gray.

Heads. I want low end 1200-3500 rpm. E7 Thumpers, GT 40 Thumpers, GT 40 p's (I now have), AFR, edelbrock.

Are the larger intake runners beneficial in the low RPM??? Would a 225 cfm intake runner kill performance in the low rpm??? I understand that intake velocity can make or break torque. What is the reality???

Intake porting or aftermarket intake edelbrock/ cobra.

I have even been looking (just for fun) at the superchargers that Jegs and Summit advertise. I have come to the conclusion that they would not be beneficial until higher in the rpm range than I would perfer.

I seen a chart from a ford brochure that indicated the factory 5.0 torque to be about 200 lbs at 2000 rpm with a nice flat curve. I would like to see 200 lbs at 1200 rpm and 400 lbs at 2000 rpm.

To summerize.
Heads??
Intake??
EEC which one.
Cam: Mustang H.O.
Full lenght headers

Are my goals realistic??:popc1::popc1:
 

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454sb sounds like it has your name on it.
 

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Chillin on the Gulf Coast
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Doing a bore and stroke on a roller block 351 and making a 408 has been my plan for a while. I am looking to pick up a set of AFR 185s, the edelbrock truck performer intake, shorty headers and a good cam. Combining that with my mass air setup I am looking for 450 HP and 550 torque. Yes a 6BT or a 460 would get you numbers like that with less engine work, but the overall work of putting in one of those motors is much more. I have never heard anything good about putting large intake runner heads on a motor that you want torque out of. I neglected to port my E7s on my 302 so that I would not lose my low end.
 

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I scrape on both sides
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doubler with a 2LO stick sounds like your thing, although personally i'd say just go with the diesel :rockon

i cant wait to do mine
 

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Here is what I came up with on my quest for torque using factory EFI and 302 base engine.

Scat 331 stroker kit (9.4 compression)
World product Aluminum heads (2.02, 1.60 w/ 64cc chambers)
Factory 302 HO cam
MAF conversion with mustang A9P computer (automatic computer)
Edelbrock Performer Truck EFI intake
Headers with full exhaust

Power figures are at the crank:

365 hp
425 ft/tq
 

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The best thing you can do is get the Edelbrock Performer Truck EFI intake

But the 8.8 and TTB 44 won't be happy with this "torque MONSTER"
Here is what I came up with on my quest for torque using factory EFI and 302 base engine
Should have started with a 5.8L
 

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Doing a bore and stroke on a roller block 351 and making a 408 has been my plan for a while. I am looking to pick up a set of AFR 185s, the edelbrock truck performer intake, shorty headers and a good cam. Combining that with my mass air setup I am looking for 450 HP and 550 torque. Yes a 6BT or a 460 would get you numbers like that with less engine work, but the overall work of putting in one of those motors is much more. I have never heard anything good about putting large intake runner heads on a motor that you want torque out of. I neglected to port my E7s on my 302 so that I would not lose my low end.


Well, I know I didn't have to mess with computers or emissions stuff, but I just swapped a 460 into my 79 and I can assure you it was 5 times easier and cheaper than building a brand new stroker motor. Took two days total with one person helping me, including converting the donor motors 2wd c6 from 2wd to 4wd.
 

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Here is what I came up with on my quest for torque using factory EFI and 302 base engine.

Scat 331 stroker kit (9.4 compression)
World product Aluminum heads (2.02, 1.60 w/ 64cc chambers)
Factory 302 HO cam
MAF conversion with mustang A9P computer (automatic computer)
Edelbrock Performer Truck EFI intake
Headers with full exhaust

Power figures are at the crank:

365 hp
425 ft/tq
a 351w would be so much better
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Boostcrazy99,

365 hp
425 ft/tq

Great numbers BUT where is it being made???? Something that is equally important when used as a truck engine!!

Fireguy50,

But the 8.8 and TTB 44 won't be happy with this "torque MONSTER"

I have the Sterling and D 60 in the garage now being preped for the upcoming (Dec 1st) SAS.

Ryan, if I may use your name, as if I know you, even if I don't. You seem to be the man in the know of the facts, not the knuckle dragging back yard chevy type but reality.

Are my goals realistic?? If so, what aftermarket heads if any, would be best???

wyoranch,

Yes the 460 would be easy, It would certianly make the torque where needed but it is a guaranteed 12 mpg empty on the hwy and hey are heavier. I would hope that a "low end torque" built 351 should should still squeeze 15 mpgs on the hwy.
 

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Ryan, if I may use your name, as if I know you, even if I don't. You seem to be the man in the know of the facts, not the knuckle dragging back yard chevy type but reality.

Are my goals realistic?? If so, what aftermarket heads if any, would be best???

Would a 225 cfm intake runner kill performance in the low rpm?
Stick with 180-195cc max
Edelbrock Performer EFI intake
If your T4M0 EEC is currently working keep it
Mustang HO camshaft makes a lot of low end torque
shorty headers would be easier with 4WD and would cost you any low end torque

If you really want low end torque, don't be afraid to gear it as well.
 

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I would hope that a "low end torque" built 351 should should still squeeze 15 mpgs on the hwy.
15 mpg would be a goal, but in reality it will be more like 9-11 mpg in a pump gas compatable and emissions friendly build which MAY exceed 500+ ft/lbs torque at low rpm.

Oh yea, you did mention that money was no object... correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Stick with 180-195cc max
Edelbrock Performer EFI intake
If your T4M0 EEC is currently working keep it
Mustang HO camshaft makes a lot of low end torque
shorty headers would be easier with 4WD and would cost you any low end torque

If you really want low end torque, don't be afraid to gear it as well.
Thanks for the reply!!

Keep the T4M0 for the 351???
 

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Discussion Starter #14
15 mpg would be a goal, but in reality it will be more like 9-11 mpg in a pump gas compatable and emissions friendly build which MAY exceed 500+ ft/lbs torque at low rpm.

Oh yea, you did mention that money was no object... correct?


Money no object, kind of talking out of both sides of my mouth. It's easier to justify the extra coin on parts.

Are you really getting 9 to 11?? Auto and 4.56's.

I'm keeping the 3.73's and the 5 speed with a max tire size of 33's. Hoping to keep it in the teens, let me live a fantacy.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If the T4M0 is working, keep it. There are lots of choices to tune it if needed in the future
Sweet!! That makes it easy enough to be a GO!!
 

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Money no object, kind of talking out of both sides of my mouth. It's easier to justify the extra coin on parts.

Are you really getting 9 to 11?? Auto and 4.56's.

I'm keeping the 3.73's and the 5 speed with a max tire size of 33's. Hoping to keep it in the teens, let me live a fantacy.
Pump gas compatable and emissions friendly are limiting factors in low rpm torque. I did the best that I could within my established goals for my daily driver.

As Fireguy50 stated, your drivetrain will become an issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Seattle,

I'm sure the Sterling & D60 will handle whatever a 351 could throw at them.



Anybody have any experience with the Isky 371 series cams??? Crusing through the Cam thread for the 20th time, I paid a little more attention and looked at the numbers Swat posted and they LOOK GOOD. Over 400 lbs at 2000, with gt 40's I could be happy with that!!!

see here,

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6867&page=3
 

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Seattle,

I'm sure the Sterling & D60 will handle whatever a 351 could throw at them.
What about the driveline, transmission and D44 front end? I do see your ZF5, but anyone with an E4OD would be hard pressed to keep it performing without upgrades. And I am just not comfortable with 31-spline and 1330 u-joints in very high torque applications.

Just trying to get you thinking about all considerations.
 

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I Paid for this sh!t
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just go with the diesel buddy, its not that hard of a swap and youll be happy. im fairly confident my 4bt/zf5/1356 will out pull 99% of the smallblocks on here, traction permitting

a 6bt would be even torqeyr
 
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