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'92 Custom w/ '95 MAF 5.0, 33's, 4.10 LSD
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I decided last week to start collecting parts for a M/T swap, having been on the fence for a while. (My main concern is shifter rear travel clearance for my custom center console / jump seat. I may need to get some measurements...) I've researched it enough at this point to have answered most of my questions, but I'm sure some will pop up as I move further along, so I might as well start a thread on the topic.

In the meantime, here's something I came up with that may help others. While pulling my M/T pedal set, one of the first things I noticed is how fragile the bushing is that holds the master cylinder arm to the pivot rod...mine was 25% broken. When I got home and read up on related topics, I learned it's a common failure point, resulting in sloppy shifting and difficult clutch engagement, and the pivot rod gets eaten away at when the bushing fails. The heim joint mod is a popular solution, and I planned on going with one of the $15-20 kits until running across this post:


That struck me as a better solution if your, like mine, bushing hasn't failed to the point of damaging the pivot. No need to disassemble (my bushings look and feel perfect, with no play) or grind the pivot off the linkage or worry about what length to cut the MC rod to and how to clock the pivot arm's splines, and quite a bit cheaper. I picked up a stop/shaft collar at Ace for $2. Finding a suitable bushing was significantly more difficult, so I'm reusing the stock one now with the tabs clipped off. I'll probably order a new one for $5 and do the same.



M/T pedal set, exhibiting the typical surface rust. Pay attention to the tip of the master cylinder's pivot rod attachment at the far right... The eye of the rod is visible at the top right, along with the very fragile plastic bushing that clips on.



Heim Joint Mod alternative: I could have gone with a 7/16" stop collar, but it fit slightly loose and was bulkier than I wanted for that narrow space, so I shaved the tip down ever so slightly to allow a thinner 3/8" collar to fit. That also lines the set screw up better with the valley, while still leaving enough room for the MC rod's eye.

(Pivot is 0.408" @ tip; 7/16" = 0.4375", 3/8" = 0.375"; pivot pretty much splits the difference.)



Surface rust cleaned up, fresh coat of paint applied.



3/8" shaft/stop collar and the plastic lock tabs of the bushing trimmed to act only as a sleeve.

p.s. I figured worst case scenario if the shaft collar shave didn't work, is cutting the pivot off and doing the heim joint mod after all.
 

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'92 Custom w/ '95 MAF 5.0, 33's, 4.10 LSD
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Discussion Starter #2
My list of items to acquire is shrinking... One of the big remaining ones is a M/T Bronco rear driveshaft. My Bronco is a '92, and it appears I need one for '90-96. Options I've found include:

1) Bronco Graveyard - $299 new, overall compressed length 29-5/16", overall extended length 33-1/2".

"fits a stock bronco with a 3 speed automatic transmission and 4 speed manual transmission" ... presumably also fits 5spd, since there was only one M/T option on Broncos? I'm surprised it fits A/T's, but I guess it's able to expand enough for that but an A/T driveshaft can't scrunch into the shorter space behind a manual tranny? If so, why the heck didn't just use the M/T driveshaft on both configurations??

2) CARDONE 65-9663 - $235 + $30 core, Remanufactured ... can be purchased for $254 on ebay without core, direct from Cardone. Listed as 5 speed trans.; with 4.10 Axle Ratio; with 29-1/8" (740 mm) Long.

3) Offroad Addiction - $393 new ... fits '90-96 Bronco with 5spd M/T, 4.9L or 5.0L engine and 3.08, 3.55 or 4.10 gear ratio; 27-5/8" long from center of u-joint caps.

Have I missed any good options? Any preferences among the above three? I know Cardone is a bit hit or miss with reman'd stuff in the parts stores... I've got an inquiry in with a junkyard that shows one in inventory, but it's probably long gone and not updated.
 

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85 Bronco, 309ci I6 w/4bbl, np435, 4" lift, 37" Irok NDs, 4.56 w/ Detroit Locker and tru trac
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Tom Woods or High Angle Driveline.

Or your local shop.

Tom woods has detailed pics on how to measure for a new one.

A ZF5 is shorter than an E4od but longer than a c6 or np435/T18. When i altered my crossmember for an F350 ZF5 swap, i added material to the rear of the crossmember and moved the trans mount holes 1" rearward.

The 96 F350 351w C6 BW4407 crossmember is unique in that the driver side curves under the frame and mounts to the out-side of the frame. Pretty sure this is due to the massive size of the BW4407 transfer case. Thats why i modified mine vs using the ZF/M5R2 crossmember.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks. I haven't looked around for local driveline shops. There's probably something, but I'm not aware of any off the top of my head.

Tom Woods is surprisingly cheap at $219 for a fully custom driveshaft, plus whatever shipping is:


High Angle Driveline's site looks like it survived from the Geocities era...


That makes my head hurt looking for the right area.

BTW, does the regular transfer case skid plate work as is with the M/T placement? I assume the transfer case just sits 3" further forward and is more protected in back, less protected in front, but does that create any interference?
 

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85 Bronco, 309ci I6 w/4bbl, np435, 4" lift, 37" Irok NDs, 4.56 w/ Detroit Locker and tru trac
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Thanks. I haven't looked around for local driveline shops. There's probably something, but I'm not aware of any off the top of my head.

Tom Woods is surprisingly cheap at $219 for a fully custom driveshaft, plus whatever shipping is:


High Angle Driveline's site looks like it survived from the Geocities era...


That makes my head hurt looking for the right area.

BTW, does the regular transfer case skid plate work as is with the M/T placement? I assume the transfer case just sits 3" further forward and is more protected in back, less protected in front, but does that create any interference?
HA geocities... Yeah their site is weak but they do have a facebook presence. Ill be going with tom woods when i get around to it.

I cant give an honest answer to the skid plate placement. Id move it to where it protects best and drill the four holes.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Which one did you find for that price on Amazon? The Cardone one I listed above was $324 there.

I'm squeamish about drilling holes in the frame... If the skid plate doesn't line up well with the repositioned transfer case, I'll probably modify the plate as needed; assuming it doesn't now interfere with something else. I already did that once with a pre-'92 plate (never could find an OBS truck that still had it on, although now that I'm looking for M/T swap parts, I'm realizing that the vast majority of F-series around here are 2WD), trimming as needed and adding extra rear protection:


Scroll midway down that post.
 

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Discussion Starter #9

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Depending on your end goal, you can get the bigger 1350 joints by refurbishing a Super Duty driveshaft. I got a front 2005 F250 shaft, cleaned and rebuilt it, then had it shortened and balanced locally to fit the rear of my Bronco. The t-case end is a flange-mount double cardan, and fits the pilot and bolt pattern for a BW1356... tried a few before leaving the JY. At the axle end, I used a 1310-to-1350 conversion joint, and will upgrade that joint later when I get a 1350 yoke.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That's the first I've heard of that. Interesting. I pulled a set of pedal covers from a Super Duty in that year range... I haven't done any driveshaft work, though, so other than looking closely at a picture, I fear I wouldn't know a proper or improper match when I saw one. Are there specific years and/or setups that have the compatible flange mount?
 

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85 Bronco, 309ci I6 w/4bbl, np435, 4" lift, 37" Irok NDs, 4.56 w/ Detroit Locker and tru trac
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Which one did you find for that price on Amazon? The Cardone one I listed above was $324 there.

I'm squeamish about drilling holes in the frame... If the skid plate doesn't line up well with the repositioned transfer case, I'll probably modify the plate as needed; assuming it doesn't now interfere with something else. I already did that once with a pre-'92 plate (never could find an OBS truck that still had it on, although now that I'm looking for M/T swap parts, I'm realizing that the vast majority of F-series around here are 2WD), trimming as needed and adding extra rear protection:


Scroll midway down that post.
You didnt find skid plates on F-series because they didnt come with them. None of the six 4x4s ive had have had one and none of the ZF5s ive pulled have either.

You can do ANYTHING for a drive shaft. Swapping to a 1350, or 1410 for that matter, shaft just requires new yokes or flange adapters. Slow moving crawlers even use square tube drive shafts.
 
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That's the first I've heard of that. Interesting. I pulled a set of pedal covers from a Super Duty in that year range... I haven't done any driveshaft work, though, so other than looking closely at a picture, I fear I wouldn't know a proper or improper match when I saw one. Are there specific years and/or setups that have the compatible flange mount?
The yard I found mine at had several 30ft long racks of driveshaft, hanging by one end. Most of them were tagged with what they had come from. Basically I just found a flange-mount double cardan shaft with 1350 joints that was longer than I needed, and took it over the the t-case section to check against the rear outputs on the couple of Bronco BE1356's they had. I ordered parts per the tag for an 05 F250 and everything went together smoothly. There are pics on one of the later pages in my build thread.

Of course, the question is, what power level is on the table to necessitate that vs just having a '90s F-series driveshaft shortened?
It was less about power and more about durability and piece of mind for me, especially since my 2nd gen is heavy. 1350 joints are probably overkill on later years unless you have a lot of power or do a lot of towing. I don't think many 90's F-series got double cardan, but would otherwise work if your driveshaft angle is set up properly. Until I did this I was using a 94 F150 front shaft, with an unmatched angle. It lasted a couple years.

Like Blue says, any shaft can be made to work. If you happen to find a burly one like the Super Duty at a JY for cheap, then even after build and balance you get an upgrade for less than the cost of buying new.
 

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Found a few pics...
05 F250 shaft after rebuild:
164860

After shorten/balance, compared to what I removed:
164861

Installed on a BE1356 output, on my BW1345:
164862
 

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Going back to your 1st post, I see you're concerned about shifter throw into your console...
Are you planning to put in an M5R2 or ZF5? The ZF has a short-throw shift kit available for it, though I don't know of anyone whos actually needed it.
 

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85 Bronco, 309ci I6 w/4bbl, np435, 4" lift, 37" Irok NDs, 4.56 w/ Detroit Locker and tru trac
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The yard I found mine at had several 30ft long racks of driveshaft, hanging by one end. Most of them were tagged with what they had come from. Basically I just found a flange-mount double cardan shaft with 1350 joints that was longer than I needed, and took it over the the t-case section to check against the rear outputs on the couple of Bronco BE1356's they had. I ordered parts per the tag for an 05 F250 and everything went together smoothly. There are pics on one of the later pages in my build thread.



It was less about power and more about durability and piece of mind for me, especially since my 2nd gen is heavy. 1350 joints are probably overkill on later years unless you have a lot of power or do a lot of towing. I don't think many 90's F-series got double cardan, but would otherwise work if your driveshaft angle is set up properly. Until I did this I was using a 94 F150 front shaft, with an unmatched angle. It lasted a couple years.

Like Blue says, any shaft can be made to work. If you happen to find a burly one like the Super Duty at a JY for cheap, then even after build and balance you get an upgrade for less than the cost of buying new.
Solid front axle OBS F350 got double cardan shafts up front and some had them for the rear. My 96 4x4 regular cab has front and rear DC shafts and the rear is a companion flange on both the diff and BW4407 transfer case. Front shaft is a traditional yoke on both ends. 1350 joints.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The yard I found mine at had several 30ft long racks of driveshaft, hanging by one end. Most of them were tagged with what they had come from. Basically I just found a flange-mount double cardan shaft with 1350 joints that was longer than I needed, and took it over the the t-case section to check against the rear outputs on the couple of Bronco BE1356's they had.
That's way too easy! The yards here aren't nearly that organized.

Going back to your 1st post, I see you're concerned about shifter throw into your console...
Are you planning to put in an M5R2 or ZF5? The ZF has a short-throw shift kit available for it, though I don't know of anyone whos actually needed it.
Funny you should ask. The plan was for a ZF5, but there aren't any local and I hadn't pulled the trigger yet on a FSB arrangement to get one shipped. However, I found a good deal last night on a M5OD (M5R2) with front driveshaft, clutch, flywheel, and hydraulic line ... oh, and it included an engine ... so I picked that up today and am going to start with that and see if I feel I need the heavier duty ZF. It supposedly shifted well when removed, but I found a couple pretty big metal shavings on the drain plug magnet (the fluid looked pretty good). TBD if it's good to go in as-is or if it needs attention. I'll get a clutch alignment tool tomorrow and pull the rest of the stuff off the block.

With that hopefully taken care of, all I need is the rear driveshaft to get up and running. I'd like to find a Mustang A9L/A9P PCM, as I'm sure my MAF PCM will throw tranny CELs, but it'll at least be functional like that.

Circling back to your question, I had read about there being a short-throw kit for the ZF (I think BigBlue mentioned it somewhere), but hadn't seen any specifics on it. Does it truly shorten the throw or just shorten the shifter height to travel less? If it's the latter, is it awkwardly low?

Worst case scenario probably is having to remove the cup holders from the front/base of the jump seat and figure something else out for them. I sure do like having them there, though.
 

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The yard where I got that shaft is in the city so they kind of have to be organized... the limited space means they crush bodies asap and stick any in-demand parts on a shelf. Upside is they're close and they specialize in Fords, so its my only worthwhile place to go

Definitely sounds like a good deal getting all those parts at once! I had a daily driver for a while with the M5R2, and was quite happy with it aside from a couple worn synchros. I've sold a couple others that were in lesser condition... one kept popping out of third gear. Never cracked one open to service, but I think they're easier to rebuild than a ZF.

I found the ZF kit once or twice online before... it raises the height of the pivot point in the top of the housing. Shifter length stays the same, throw decreases, and force to shift would go up a bit.
 
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