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Discussion Starter #1
Picked up a 70' stang coupe from a friend for dirt cheap. In pretty good condition. Car has a inline-6 w/ a c4? im guessing automatic... Ive been doing alot of research and am well on my way...
Plans for the car is a streep/strip application.. It will be a cecil county dragway every friday and sometimes wed nights racing and be driven occasionally on nice days..

currently im building a 302 block for it. Plans are a 347 or 331 stroker w/ forged pistons and rods. ARP 185cc heads. A cam with some good lift. Roller rockers, edlebrock performer upper and lower intakes and a big carb... im basically replicating the ford racing 347 crate with some better heads and beefier cam..the ford racing crate makes 450hp and like 400 ft/lbs of torque. Oh and shortly down the road the motor would probably get a bottle behind it for some more power at the track.

On the 347..i would love to build a 347 but i ave heard that the 347's have problems because the downstroke makes the lower ring prodtrude below the cyclinder wall. DAmaging it and causing the motor to leak/burn oil. I have heard ths problem was fixe...but i dont see how. I dont want to have to rebuild this motor every 10,000 miles.. Which is why i may stay with a 331 build.. Which i believe is .30 over pistons and a 351 crank...correct??? i dont know... what do yu guys think i should do?

personally i would love to throw a manual in it. Modern driveline makes a kit with all the pedals brakets cable to convert to a manual T5. Problem being with this motor producing 400+ hp a standard t5(325ft/lb rating) wont stand up for the beating. There is a TKO 600 available that holds 600ft/lbs. But its pricey . the whole manual swap with a t5 would add about $3000 w/out the clutch. The TKO 600 would probably add anther $800 bux to that. With these prices kinda high ive been thinking of sticking with an auto.
I want something 4 spd preferably with OD would be really nice. OD could be left out.. But would be great for the highway... Im not sure how not overdrive will do with 373.. MAybe ill stay with a 3.55 ratio rear end..Need something beefy though. A c4 would work and would be a very easy swap but its 3spd. right? A built c4 could be had for under a grand to 1500. Possably a built c6 could be cool too?? What are your opinions???B&M makes performance transmissions but i have only begun to look at them.
Basically i need a transmission for a small block that can hold its power.. And i wanna throw a ratchet shifter on.. AMnual and Auto valve bodies.. i have no clue what to get

The 9inch will be rebuilt with 31 or 33 spline axels(5 lug), a detroit, and a 3.73 ratio. The 27 spline will be torn apart once the power train is in:)

The car has only begun its restoration. But as I assemble the drivetrain.. i wanna make sure i get what i want...Im only 18 and definatly a newb to restoring and building classic performance cars...

Any info would be aprreciated and give me any insight on what i should be looking at for this performance 302.. Being 2bolt.. i have seen some girdles or whatever out there.. but havent been able to find them. Let me know

DC thanx alot guys

ill get some pics of it later

the block goes out for a hot tank, boring, freeze plugs and blueprint as soon as i get my pistons
 

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Discussion Starter #2
can anyone desktop dyno that and give me an idea... Ive gotta get that program back from a buddy of mine..
347 stoker.
185 cc heads...ill ahve to figure out the intake and exhaust size later..ime rocking the school computers lol...
edlebrock upper and lower performer intakes
A decently large cam./..dont have any numbers make something up..
long tubes
800 cfm carb..

i dunno what else

just give me an idea

DC
 

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With a car that will fit a much bigger motor easier...don't waste time w/ a 302. I suggest a 351W stroked to 408. Or if you feel crafty find a big block like a 427/428/429/460. The 351 will give you more power than that 302 will with the same amount of money invested. If you go with a T5 get it built, really stout. They don't hold torque like they should in stock form. I suggest a 4 speed toploader. Go to www.toploaderheaven.com for help on those and more info. The Ford 9" is great for those. Don't forget to beef up the suspension and what not. Get strut-tower braces, subframe connectors, battle boxes if you can for those, make sure the torque boxes are solid. I am currently restoring a 65...so I know what a PITA it can be. Do it right the first time though, take your time with it. I am your age but am in school at Colorado so can't be with my car much. But it is a hobby not a job. CJ Pony Parts is a great source for parts. I would pick up a Mustangs and Fords magazine just to browse through, get ideas etc...

Another thing. An 800 CFM might be too big for that.
Use this formula: Cubic Inches x Max RPM/ 3456=CFM...

So lets say you have 347 and will max out RPMs at 5700.
Your CFM should be 572.3. I would go with a 600 or a custom built 550.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
aight great...im not sure if i will be going to a bigger motor...got my hands on this 302 for free and havent been able to find a 351 that will fit my budget yet... ive got an 88 bronco with a 351 for sale but if it doesnt sell im am pulling the motor and stripping it for parts and sending it to the yard...

thanx for the help so far good luck with the 65...also mustangheavan.com has EVERYTHING for our stangs

DC
 

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I got my 351w from a guy on www.vintage-mustang.com for 300 delivered. Got it out of a 69 Cougar. Really good year, the C9 block and parts etc... That is a GREAT site...lots of info and they know everything about 64.5-73 Mustangs.
 

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Screw the bigger engine...

More room under the hood means more room for a blow through turbo setup and all the requisite piping.

There is a replacement for displacement, it's called BOOST.
 

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There is TONS of room for a blow thru app and a 351w under the hood of a 70. Those fit 428s just fine, with 1 inch wider front clips they fit the Boss 429 engines. The 351w has a deck height 1 inch taller than a 302, AFAIK that is the only difference, may be slightly wider but not enough to rule out a S/C. With a cowl hood you can fit just about anything. Paxton makes a popular blow thru app.
 

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Hell then do a 351W AND a Turbo setup.
 

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That is a good combo. I saw that once at a car show, that is why I mention going with the 351. With his budget it may not be do-able but at least he would have the option to do it later. Also saw a home-made twin turboed 1st or 2nd gen camaro in Car Craft once...BADASS combo, ran 9s or something real low on pump gas.
 

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Turbo setups can be done pretty cheaply.

If you know someone who can weld you can do your own headers.
You can just JY a turbo. You can get a good one if you check to see if it has no endplay and spins freely.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
ill keep looking for the 351...the 302 wont be going to the shop for a while...

anyone know anything about the 347's or my transmission options?/ I would love to do the manual still...the TKO 600 is about 1600 bux trans only..couple hundred more for a clutch...find a bellhousing..and the pedal assembly and cable...i think that modern driveline company is just a rip...i can piece it together for cheaper...

whadda ya'll think??
DC
 

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Piecing it together is to me the best option.

It is cheaper by far, but can sometimes be hard to find all the stuff.

You do get to make some cool trips to the junkyards though.

I have so far pieced together 2 Fox body Auto to manual swaps.

You can also start looking for the turbo for the 351Turbo that 50gunner and I have planned for your car.

I would not order pistons until that engine gets back from the shop though. They can sometimes need to be taken a little over what is originally thought.

It would suck to order +.030 pistons for a +.040 engine.

Be sure to get some forged pistons too, one ping on cast or hyper pistons with a turbo setup and you are done for.
 

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50Gunner said:
With a car that will fit a much bigger motor easier...don't waste time w/ a 302. I suggest a 351W....
:thumbup

50Gunner said:
There is TONS of room for a blow thru app and a 351w under the hood of a 70...
:stupid on everything but the "blow-thru" bit. Screw carburetors, that's why Megasquirt exists. I've spent enough time playing with both that I'll happily take fuel injection any day, particularly at that price. :twotu:

You're going to have this car for years, right? Don't shoot yourself in the foot from the start by spending a lot of money on something that isn't the best way to get what you're after. Give it a few months and you'll find a good deal on a 351, and by then you'll also have a better idea what you really want to do, instead of trying to piece together parts a little bit at a time. Some say you can always change your mind later, but frankly if you just put 10.5:1 compressions in your motor, you're not going to be going turbo ... you get the idea. The money's already spent, so you're stuck with whatever you picked.

A well built 351 in a Mustang with AFR185's shouldn't have much trouble putting out about 400hp and remaining streetable (well, without that boat anchor 800CFM carb). In addition, the 351W block is much stronger than the 302 (though the engine will end up 50-100lb heavier). If you actually want to go turbo or supercharged, you'd better decide now before you start buying pistons, or you'll be kicking yourself once you're stuck with the wrong CR.

I definitely wouldn't consider putting anything resembling a stock T-5 behind a 351, even the T-5Z. Don't bother. If you want a five speed to hold up, your options are either TKO or a G-Force T-5, which I believe is an excellent deal though I haven't had the money to go that route myself yet. The Richmond five speed looks to have wonderful ratios, particularly if you want to build a road car or roadracer, but it's out of my budget. If you're OK without overdrive, you'll have to do some looking for good four speeds, since they're pretty much out of my area of expertise.
 

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ONe thing that i always heard mustang guys talk about the t5 was that its dirt cheap. So if you blow one up, jsut grab one out of the junkyard for couple hundred and replace it. Still cheaper than the other manual you are talkin about. What about a M5OD? is it any stronger/weaker than the t5?

Also i would def. consider a bigger engine than a 302. Those cars had some wieght to them, even a built 302 may seem a little sluggish than you would think. 351w's are pretty hard to find at this point because they are so popular. I've actually seen more 460's in the junkyards than 351w's lately. checkout corral.net. They always have shortblocks for sale, with some good deals on 351's. I saw a 351 roller shortblock for 300 bucks last week i think. Also your local machine shop can probably round you up a bare block and you can build from there.

I can try to get you a desktop dyno file later tonight when i get back from class, also check out this thread: http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57206
and look at the numbers of the 393 im building. I have a torque cam in it, and tfs twisted wedge heads. A different cam and those AFR's would make a lot of power. And its basically the same price as a 302 stroker

just something to think about
 

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The T-5 was undersized for a stock 80's Mustang. I do have to admit mine has held up pretty well (in a mostly stock DD that never sees track time), but then again ... I've also been given to understand that certain of the late 93 5.0's got the Cobra T-5, which was stronger by about 30lb-ft, and I have one of the last 5,000 or so 93's to the best of my knowledge. I don't know.

Either way, I'd expect a T-5 to hold up on the street behind a built 351W if it were babied, and snap like a twig the first time you put slicks on it, unless something else proves to be weaker ... and with a 31 spline 9, it won't be the rear end. :doh0715:

The M5OD is quite a bit stronger than the T-5, but it's bulky, I believe the shifter is too far forward (would have to look) ... and between the ratios and the shift characteristics it would probably be godawful for a performance transmission. That's not a route I'd necessarily recommend ...
 

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I can find 4 351 blocks or full motors 20 miles away from me in St. Louis. They aren't that hard to find. Join a Mustang board in your area. And to my knowledge...an M5OD has never been put on an older Mustang. A Tremec trans or the Toploader will bolt up to the 302 and 351.
 

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Even if t5's were FREE, it would quickly become a royal PITA to change them out every time they broke. You'd only do it once, maybe twice before you broke down and did it the right way, anyway.
 

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cool project man.

i've got a 1970 coupe as well, grabber blue. came stock with a 250-6 and a C4 auto, 8in rear. now its got a heavily modded 428CJ, wide ratio toploader, and a 31spl 9in trac loc rear.

this car won't be used for any real long trips, so the bullet proof 4speed toploader is what we went with. for the clutch it was a stock pedal that drives a hydraulic m/c and an internal slave in the bellhousing
 

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Discussion Starter #19
id be interested in a lil more info behind that...mines going from the green to blue... i want a pastel looking light blue, black strpes and shiney black wheels..all 5 lug obviously so i can get wheels lol

i will keep looking for the 351 as i said... if i cant find one in the next month the 302 will be getting the motor work done. I have to have the pistons first because the shop is matching each piston exactly to each cyclinder...im decided to stay away from the 347 and go with a 331. Mainly because of the oil problems...I would love to find the 351 to make up for the missing displacement...i will keep you all updated..

for the TKO600 trans i would be getting ahold of a bellhousing that would allow me to run a cable drawn clutch..Zach i would love to see more info on how you set ur hydro clutch up

any more help would be greatly appreciated thanx guys..

DC
 

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351w is very plentiful.

I only suggested the blow through because that is what most people seem likeley to do with an older car.

Me, I like my FI. Easy to start in the morning and I can ask it when something is wrong and it will tell me.

As far as the T5 goes, yes they are cheap, but replacing them can still be a hassle. I have problems locating them.

I think they are somewhere behind the engine and under the shifter handle. Possibly in front of the driveshaft.

Hard driving on them can wreak havoc on the synchros, like has just happened to mine. Myself and Potamus are very fond of downshifts and slamming it into gear. Might have to limit that a bit from now on.
 
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