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Do you approve of AutoGuide morphing our site for nefarious commercial purpose?


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Low Buck Bum
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The problem we're running into, and we will continue to run into, is right at the start of this thread... look at the number of people who voted on this topic. It's clearly something we're all passionate about, I mean, we did join FULLSIZEBRONCO.COM ffs, but because of whatever reasons, we're just a small (but vocal) group, and small groups have zero influence when it comes to driving traffic to a website when it's corporate. Make no mistake, this is no longer the group of friends it was, it's corporate. They will do whatever they need to do to make their investment pay off, and if that means changing the page dynamics, they'll do it. Oh, they'll politely listen, and even pretend to respond, but the clicks will drive this bus from now on. Forever.

If you want what the page used to represent, it's going to take a major change of venue. Don't worry, Vertical Scope (look, I even spelled your name right!) will be more than happy to help us shuffle off to whatever place we decide to go from here, but they're not going to REALLY listen to us, and it's likely they never really have. Most of you are as old as I am (or older), and at fifty, I know when I'm being gladhanded. So, if someone were to do something else, I'd gladly follow and offer my limited abilities as I have here.
 

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1992 XLT 302 5 spd trans, long tube headers, manual t case, manual hubs
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Upon reading this I realized I no longer want my FSB and will immediately sell it for a first gen and a 2021. Don't worry though I'll remain here and help the takeover begin.




Hahahahaha nah just kidding. Full size till the bitter end.


I do want a 2021 as a daily though...
 

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Premium 4 Lyfe - Way Back Staff
'95 XLT: 5.8, MAF, E4OD, 4.56's, 6" on 33's
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Not for me they didn't. I have yet to even see the "old style" banner.
 

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Resident Nice Guy
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Guys, you know me well enough to know that I hate breaking up pages of bitching about banners not having enough of the right bronco or how a certain bronco shouldn't be discussed because it doesn't fit the format of another bronco but political discussion is fine as long as everyone agrees on who is the right guy to be in charge. I just wanted to state an obvious fact that everyone seems to be dodging. After this, everyone can go back immediately to complaining about the banner that they sometimes see.

Joe(dsot) sold you down the river. Instead of complaining about a company acting like a company, why don't you wonder why your buddy sold what you clearly feel is your site off to profiteers and left you in the lurch. He didn't sell the site because he couldn't handle the size of it, he sold it because it put money in his pocket, then he left you all here, returning twice since the sale long enough to get an ego stroke from the guys on the forum then ghosting you all again. VS and AG exist to make money. That's not a bad thing. Your YUGE president has lived his life doing things that sometimes negatively affected a much larger group of people to make money, oftentimes, much worse than you're being treated to here. I don't see his twitter being blown up because of that. He's heralded as a kick ass, no holds barred capitalist. Why in the hell would you expect other companies to coddle a small group of people that freak the **** out when banners change if they have no responsibility to and lose money while they are doing it? That would be absurd.

I'm not badmouthing Joe. I've done the exact same thing he did. I did it for the money and I had lost connection with the group that lived on the forum. I don't apologize for it and I wouldn't undo it. Interests change and life stuff happens and we all do our thing that sometimes takes us away from people we used to hang out with. That's not my point here. My point is that this is a commercial site. You are the minority, albeit the very vocal one. Don't like the banner? Definitely say something but if you feel you're still being ignored 10 pages in, for the love of the baby Jesus Christ in a rolling donut, take the fucking hint and go do something more productive, whether it's helping people in the newbie category, talking about how great Trump is in the political category or posting about how to open beer bottles in the 2021 category. If you find the situation untenable, go start another site. If that seems too daunting, just go join the toxic and angry people over at irate and talk about how terrible corporations are for doing corporation stuff. You have notified the owner of the site of the error. They know. You can rest easy knowing that. What they do with the information is up to them. The horse has been sufficiently beaten to death. Twice.

That all being said, please know that I love you all and look forward to another 10 pages of how you sometimes don't see a particular banner, replete with screenshots.
 

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Premium 4 Lyfe - Way Back Staff
'95 XLT: 5.8, MAF, E4OD, 4.56's, 6" on 33's
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36,246 Posts
Dude... I used to be a Lead Tech for MS Tech support. I got the basics but I'll be damned if I'm gonna wreck my setup every few days to be disappointed... again.
 

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Eric
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2,610 Posts
Guys, you know me well enough to know that I hate breaking up pages of bitching about banners not having enough of the right bronco or how a certain bronco shouldn't be discussed because it doesn't fit the format of another bronco but political discussion is fine as long as everyone agrees on who is the right guy to be in charge. I just wanted to state an obvious fact that everyone seems to be dodging. After this, everyone can go back immediately to complaining about the banner that they sometimes see.

Joe(dsot) sold you down the river. Instead of complaining about a company acting like a company, why don't you wonder why your buddy sold what you clearly feel is your site off to profiteers and left you in the lurch. He didn't sell the site because he couldn't handle the size of it, he sold it because it put money in his pocket, then he left you all here, returning twice since the sale long enough to get an ego stroke from the guys on the forum then ghosting you all again. VS and AG exist to make money. That's not a bad thing. Your YUGE president has lived his life doing things that sometimes negatively affected a much larger group of people to make money, oftentimes, much worse than you're being treated to here. I don't see his twitter being blown up because of that. He's heralded as a kick ass, no holds barred capitalist. Why in the hell would you expect other companies to coddle a small group of people that freak the **** out when banners change if they have no responsibility to and lose money while they are doing it? That would be absurd.

I'm not badmouthing Joe. I've done the exact same thing he did. I did it for the money and I had lost connection with the group that lived on the forum. I don't apologize for it and I wouldn't undo it. Interests change and life stuff happens and we all do our thing that sometimes takes us away from people we used to hang out with. That's not my point here. My point is that this is a commercial site. You are the minority, albeit the very vocal one. Don't like the banner? Definitely say something but if you feel you're still being ignored 10 pages in, for the love of the baby Jesus Christ in a rolling donut, take the fucking hint and go do something more productive, whether it's helping people in the newbie category, talking about how great Trump is in the political category or posting about how to open beer bottles in the 2021 category. If you find the situation untenable, go start another site. If that seems too daunting, just go join the toxic and angry people over at irate and talk about how terrible corporations are for doing corporation stuff. You have notified the owner of the site of the error. They know. You can rest easy knowing that. What they do with the information is up to them. The horse has been sufficiently beaten to death. Twice.

That all being said, please know that I love you all and look forward to another 10 pages of how you sometimes don't see a particular banner, replete with screenshots.
Schwim, I'm not very tech savvy. This is not a secret and you know this, personally. I have ZERO social media and don't understand how money-flow works in instances like this on the internet. However, just out of curiosity, and this is a genuine question, if everything on this site was humming along just dandy with ads and traffic and such, how much annual revenue would AG/VS/whoever-the-hell see off it? Like, how much income could they, reasonably, gain from this site? No sarcasm intended. I am simply curious about "the bottom line", if it can even be stated in a nutshell for a situation like this. I'm sure there are variables involved in arriving at such a number, but a ball-park figure...
 
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82 XLT Lariat 351w, Edelbrock 1406 4bbl ,C6 auto, auto locking hubs ,33x10.5x15
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Schwim, I'm not very tech savvy. This is not a secret and you know this, personally. I have ZERO social media and don't understand how money-flow works in instances like this on the internet. However, just out of curiosity, and this is a genuine question, if everything on this site was humming along just dandy with ads and traffic and such, how much annual revenue would AG/VS/whoever-the-hell see off it? Like, how much income could they, reasonably, gain from this site? No sarcasm intended. I am simply curious about "the bottom line", if it can even be stated in a nutshell for a situation like this. I'm sure there are variables involved in arriving at such a number, but a ball-park figure...
This might give you some idea
 

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Long time member on ClassicBroncos.com. Privately owned board. Noticed they recently added a new discussion forum for 2021 new bronco.

Difference is zero teeth gnashing and hand wringing on CB.com unlike the constant drama on this site. I don’t understand the childish response to change on this website, but it IS amusing to watch....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Resident Nice Guy
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Schwim, I'm not very tech savvy. This is not a secret and you know this, personally. I have ZERO social media and don't understand how money-flow works in instances like this on the internet. However, just out of curiosity, and this is a genuine question, if everything on this site was humming along just dandy with ads and traffic and such, how much annual revenue would AG/VS/whoever-the-hell see off it? Like, how much income could they, reasonably, gain from this site? No sarcasm intended. I am simply curious about "the bottom line", if it can even be stated in a nutshell for a situation like this. I'm sure there are variables involved in arriving at such a number, but a ball-park figure...
Hello there, sir!

I'm happy to explain what I know about it but keep two things in mind:

1) I'm not an insider, in the business or in any way what you'd consider knowledgeable. I'm just a guy.

2) The numbers I blurt are like air miles. They mean nothing and are in no way an accurate representation of what is actually being achieved by the site.

Sites make money in a myriad of ways. Visual and textual advertising embedded in the website, affiliate links, partnerships, memberships... you name it, if it can be monetized, commercial sites will do it. I've seen all of that on this site, which means we would need to guess at all of those aspects which is impossible so we won't guess, I'll just make a generalization based on a site of this size with this much content could make.

The magic behind this site is no longer the members, it's the database. That's because this site is a historical archive of a vehicle that is no longer making changes. The members have talked about everything concerning these vehicles, how to fix and improve them and while they did that, the database grew in size. At this point we're just eating our tail in terms of talking about the same stuff over and over again for the most part. So if every member left this site and never returned and the site became a read only archive, it would still be the most authoritative resource on FSBs on the planet(3.7 million user posts of content). This is important to your question.

The money a site can make is directly related to how many people view it's pages. Each page view shows more ads, resulting in a higher chance of a click on an ad and each click results in money. The more traffic a site can generate, the more money it makes off of the ads. If you can become a top result for a search query, you get more people coming to your site which then more often click on your ads, becoming a member or clicking an affiliate link. The magic is getting traffic to your site to do that, regardless of whether or not they ever become a member and create content of their own.

I know absolutely none of the details necessary to make an educated guess but would guess that a site of this size being as likely as it is to be at the top of a search query regarding these vehicles could easily make 2-3k monthly, perhaps even more. The crippling factor of this site is actually it's topic, the FSB. It's a dead vehicle with a dwindling number of owners every day, so there are less searches regarding them in turn generating less income.

Enter the new Bronco content and why the company is injecting it. If they can become a hub for that vehicle, they have a chance of doubling or even tripling their income generated by this site. If every FSB owner leaves this site but they become a go-to for the new Bronco, they will still make more money than they ever could have if they were to stay FSB all the way. That's why they're making the effort and why you're seeing them pull back from ragefests like this topic. If you keep in mind their goal and the fact that they have to pay someone to respond to this topic while just basically getting yelled at constantly, you'll understand why we're hearing less and less from them.

So, in answer to your question: $2-5k air bucks currently. Tons more if they can pull in new bronco lovers.

They are doing what they can to bring the new guys in while spraying water on the fires lit by the old guys. I suspect the banner issue people are having by our members where the banner they want is sometimes showing for some is because the owners are trying to show the FSB banner to the very angry FSB members while still showing the new bronco banner to new visitors. Sort of like a low level exercise in gas lighting. I can say this with a modicum of surety because some of the new members posting so effusively about the new bronco share the same IP as AG Jeff meaning the company is creating dummy accounts to start the 2021 discussions in an effort to make this place a home for the new bronco as well as the full size.

Which is just how companies work and nobody should be blaming them for it. Nobody that has posted in this topic has ever owned the site or owned shares in VS or AG. They are visitors and they agreed to the TOS which states that any content they post is owned by the company immediately upon submission. The only person that could have been mad is Joe if he hadn't sold it out from under everyone and this had still happened. As it stands, nobody has a legitimate reason to be angry about the recent turn of events. Their time to get pissed off would have been when Joe sold the site making this entire scenario possible.
 

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Addicted to Junk
85 Bronco, 309ci I6 w/4bbl, np435, 4" lift, 37" Irok NDs, 4.56 w/ Detroit Locker and tru trac
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I suspect the banner issue people are having by our members where the banner they want is sometimes showing for some is because the owners are trying to show the FSB banner to the very angry FSB members while still showing the new bronco banner to new visitors.
I dont believe this to be true. If so, pepe and ms88 would see the fsb banner and not the mixed gen. And why would mine revert back and forth?

And honestly, who the hell ever clicks on ads!?
 

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I dont believe this to be true. If so, pepe and ms88 would see the fsb banner and not the mixed gen. And why would mine revert back and forth?

And honestly, who the hell ever clicks on ads!?
Like I said, I'm not an insider to this site so it's all speculation. I do believe the banner situation to be true because I've been paid to write similar types of code for commercial sites. The fact that it isn't working properly doesn't mean it isn't true, it just means they haven't worked the bugs out of it yet. Stuff like that is surprisingly complex, taking a lot of variables into account( cookies, sessions, browsers, user settings). It's not just a "show it to Bob but not to Jim" situation. It can be infuriatingly slow to get stuff like that working correctly when only using angry member input to troubleshoot with.

As for who clicks ads, the average internet user.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

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some of the new members posting so effusively about the new bronco share the same IP as AG Jeff meaning the company is creating dummy accounts to start the 2021 discussions in an effort to make this place a home for the new bronco as well as the full size.
Nailed it. :) Definitely posting on the part of the forum owners, not Ford. I hadn't taken the theory as far as them actually being the forum owners, though.

I dont believe this to be true. If so, pepe and ms88 would see the fsb banner and not the mixed gen. And why would mine revert back and forth?
Schwim's observation fits with my comment that it's a seemingly random carousel, not a browser cache issue. I was looking at it from the perspective of them trying to fix it, but I can see it being a matter of intentionally breaking it and having to work out the kinks. And let's be honest, the migration to this new forum software showed a lack of technical competence in-house, so expectations should be low for that sort of thing.
 

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Addicted to Junk
85 Bronco, 309ci I6 w/4bbl, np435, 4" lift, 37" Irok NDs, 4.56 w/ Detroit Locker and tru trac
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Like I said, I'm not an insider to this site so it's all speculation. I do believe the banner situation to be true because I've been paid to write similar types of code for commercial sites. The fact that it isn't working properly doesn't mean it isn't true, it just means they haven't worked the bugs out of it yet. Stuff like that is surprisingly complex, taking a lot of variables into account( cookies, sessions, browsers, user settings). It's not just a "show it to Bob but not to Jim" situation. It can be infuriatingly slow to get stuff like that working correctly when only using angry member input to troubleshoot with.

As for who clicks ads, the average internet user.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
Thats very true. Programming is a PITA im sure, especially with 1000s of users on hundreds of different devices and browsers. But also, im not one thats absolutely furious about it. My initial reaction was to just simply swap MS88's bronco into the middle and the CB to the right. I for one dont care if every bronco was included on this site. But in separate sections of course. Ive been here long enough to remember a section on tow vehicles even. So its not a new thing to have sections other than FSBs. But the main focus of this site is Fullsize Broncos. Thats why 99% of traffic visits the site.

Its not always the 'change' itself that causes reactions, but how the change is brought about. WE requested a banner change months ago, following in line with years of tradition. Then, when the banner finally comes, its nothing but a slap in the face to the FOTY winner, who is sidelined to a couple internet stock images. Thats like slipping chicken in place of the tofu in your miso soup and telling you its still cubes of edible material so its basically the same.
 
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