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Do you approve of AutoGuide morphing our site for nefarious commercial purpose?


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'92 Custom w/ '95 MAF 5.0, 33's, 4.10 LSD
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Its not always the 'change' itself that causes reactions, but how the change is brought about. WE requested a banner change months ago, following in line with years of tradition. Then, when the banner finally comes, its nothing but a slap in the face to the FOTY winner, who is sidelined to a couple internet stock images. Thats like slipping chicken in place of the tofu in your miso soup and telling you its still cubes of edible material so its basically the same.
The response about lack of photo resolution certainly showed a lean toward disingenuous communication.
 

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82 XLT Lariat 351w, Edelbrock 1406 4bbl ,C6 auto, auto locking hubs ,33x10.5x15
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2,576 Posts
I dont believe this to be true. If so, pepe and ms88 would see the fsb banner and not the mixed gen. And why would mine revert back and forth?

And honestly, who the hell ever clicks on ads!?
I can't tell you how many times I've tried to scroll and barely touched am ad and it opens or hit a like near an ad and the page skips because something finished loading and I hit the ad instead of the like...
 

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'92 Custom w/ '95 MAF 5.0, 33's, 4.10 LSD
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I can't tell you how many times I've tried to scroll and barely touched am ad and it opens or hit a like near an ad and the page skips because something finished loading and I hit the ad instead of the like...
I never use mobile for anything if I can help it. The amount of aggravation people put up with in the name of convenience boggles the mind. Ironically, dynamic content loading is only necessary because of mobile (data transfer and processing/memory), yet that's what it's most annoying on, due to the lack of a mouse.

The internet peaked 20 years ago. Everything since has been for the worse. People want technological progress, yet resent what it leads to. Streamlining forum administration for profit maximization is part of that journey.
 

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Resident Nice Guy
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I can't tell you how many times I've tried to scroll and barely touched am ad and it opens or hit a like near an ad and the page skips because something finished loading and I hit the ad instead of the like...
It's an intentional design principle. So popular, in fact, Google punishes the design trait when caught. Clicks make money even when they are accidental. I would strongly suggest an ad blocker. You can whitelist sites that you'd like to see ads on.

I never use mobile for anything if I can help it. The amount of aggravation people put up with in the name of convenience boggles the mind. Ironically, dynamic content loading is only necessary because of mobile (data transfer and processing/memory), yet that's what it's most annoying on, due to the lack of a mouse.

The internet peaked 20 years ago. Everything since has been for the worse. People want technological progress, yet resent what it leads to. Streamlining forum administration for profit maximization is part of that journey.
Everyone has a point at which they want the technological train to stop. Luckily we all get to decide when to get off of the train ourselves.
 
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'96 XL EEC-V 347 E40D 1356 411 6" lift 35x12.50x15
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4,478 Posts
@schwim

So, I had a thought when signing in this evening and saw the new Ugly banner still up there.

Remember b-4 when we could pick our choice of 4 - 5 different "Skins"?
(color schemes with the different FOTY Contest Winners Pictures.)

Would it be worth asking VS or @AGJeff about bringing that Feature Back.?
 

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Premium Member
1986 Bronco, 351w, Edelbrock aluminum top end, Holley 600, 4" BDS lift, 35" Maxxis Razr's, stuff..
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2,471 Posts
$20 a year buys you no ads to worry about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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Resident Nice Guy
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@schwim

So, I had a thought when signing in this evening and saw the new Ugly banner still up there.

Remember b-4 when we could pick our choice of 4 - 5 different "Skins"?
(color schemes with the different FOTY Contest Winners Pictures.)

Would it be worth asking VS or @AGJeff about bringing that Feature Back.?
Without sounding cynical, I'd say that it's not worth the time. The reason I say it is because the company is working very hard to assimilate each of their websites into a single framework and theme. They are doing this because the savings in doing that on each property would save money exponentially. The community seems to be having a problem getting the company to work with them for one specific banner, I don't think we'd succeed in getting them to add more, then change the theme to suit the banner.

It costs nothing to ask but I would worry that you'd simply end up with another thread like this one; 10 pages of the same 10 people saying the same thing over and over without any assistance from the owners.
 

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Registered
78 Custom - 460 - NP435 - NP205 - Sniper EFI - HyperSpark Ignition - 4.56 Gears - Front/Rear Lockers
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Resident Nice Guy
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To be fair, that's like 20% of the active posters on this site.
I would agree. The ragefest and political topics probably scare quite a few new people that would like to talk about FSBs off.
 

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Premium 4 Lyfe - Way Back Staff
'95 XLT: 5.8, MAF, E4OD, 4.56's, 6" on 33's
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The "rage" everyone keeps going on about here is a bit much. I type... you read. The "tone" is completely subjective. Read my comments in Morgan Freemans voice, if it makes you feel better. Sheesh.

As for the political topics... they stay in their section and this site is sooo mellow in comparison to so many others I've read and some I frequent regularly, it's actually impressive to me, especially in the times we're living through.
 

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Resident Nice Guy
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As for the political topics... they stay in their section and this site is sooo mellow in comparison to so many others I've read and some I frequent regularly, it's actually impressive to me, especially in the times we're living through.
So honest question, is everything set to rights if the 2021 bronco content stays in their section just like the politiccal section? And a not-as honest follow up: If so, can we have a VW Beetle section if I promise not to step outside of the lines?
 

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Low Buck Bum
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3,537 Posts
So honest question, is everything set to rights if the 2021 bronco content stays in their section just like the politiccal section? And a not-as honest follow up: If so, can we have a VW Beetle section if I promise not to step outside of the lines?
Don't you screw with my Bugs! ACVW stuff is over at that place where people are REALLY toxic: We HATE change and we HATE YOU!
 

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Resident Nice Guy
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Now that's a get-off-my-lawn membership resistant to change. Forum runs on a codebase that received it's last security patch in '08. On a positive note though, Everett has still yet to sell it out from under his member base, which seems a fair trade for having it's features and usability locked into an era from over a decade prior.
 
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Low Buck Bum
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Still not quite as toxic as Pirate was in its prime, but man it's easy to get on the wrong side of anything over there. I only go because there's so much information!
 

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Premium 4 Lyfe - Way Back Staff
'95 XLT: 5.8, MAF, E4OD, 4.56's, 6" on 33's
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36,246 Posts
So honest question, is everything set to rights if the 2021 bronco content stays in their section just like the politiccal section? And a not-as honest follow up: If so, can we have a VW Beetle section if I promise not to step outside of the lines?
Honest answer... I don't mind the discussion. I don't mind the talk, I expect it. I come to this crowd for 90% of my automotive discussions and my lil' lady is seriously considering buying one herself, that I'd like to get solid info on myself to help guide her purchase. This is the place I'd come too for that information, thoughts, knowledge, etc. combined with my own research. What I don't want is too take part in an entire section of relevant info that's being filled by phonies copying and pasting the same content I can read anywhere all over the internet, just to bloat the area with fluff and nonsense to mislead genuine people looking for genuine information. I'm reading more relevant discussions about the 6G on a freakin' Harley forum ffs, but at least those are real people with genuine interest.

It's not even about the section. It took me by surprise at first but I get it. There's an interest, it's named "Bronco" and they want to make money. It's kinda stupid and lame... but yea, I get it. What puts the bug up my ass is the dishonesty and the over-push. Fake members creating fluff content is dishonest and I hate lying and I can't stand liars. Changing images around here that represent the site to reflect vehicles that aren't even discussed (CB's) is a pathetic attempt to make click bait and that would just piss me off, as a regular guy looking for genuine info and being mislead to waste my time on a place that has little, if any genuine, original information. Nevermind the potential flow of clueless noobies who never had an interest or appreciation for our beloved FSB's and the clutter and mess they'll add to our database. Then again... people rarely even search anymore. We're regurgitating information regularly enough to prove that. I just don't care to be a part of any type of misrepresentation or dishonesty, in anything... here or anywhere else.

Many around here love and appreciate the Classic Bronco but how many dedicated threads have we had on it over the last decade? None I can think of... unless you count the one FSB frame with a CB body, after it was rolled out on the trails. Do we have a dedicated CB section? No. Why? Because we've got plenty to talk about and document with our FSB's and there are plenty of other dedicated sources that talk CB's with dedicated members that know those rigs inside and out, so there's really no point. This place was built around the FULLSIZEBRONCO.COM and it should always be primarily about the FSB or change the domain to fit the content.

Comparing the 6G issue to the political section is disingenuous. The political section was created to have a place where people could get it off their chests and keep it off the rest of the forum. It's evolved into something else over the course of years and more recently in troubled times... but it's still helping to serve that same purpose. It's not like anybody is posting images of this forum to try and misrepresent it as a political forum. It's still a full size Bronco forum with a small political section. No more, no less.

And sure... you can have your VW section. May as well. While you're at it... let's put in a Harley and other motorcycles section. Why not? I'm willing to bet there are more H-D owners hanging around here than VW guys. Since we're heading down the path of making this a generalized vehicles forum now anyway (*sarcasm, in case that wasn't obvious already). How long before all the forums become merged into 1, simple to manage, giant forum that's so full of irrelevant info that you can't find anything you need to know because you're so busy sifting through crap, you'll never find that little golden nugget you so desperately need to fix your own rig. That's one of the biggest reasons I never joined Pirate anyway. Too much general info and not enough dedication to make it worthwhile for me. I've got the thick skin... I just didn't have the interest in... well, every other vehicle with 4 wheel drive.

And yea... Joe sold us down the river. He moved on long, long ago. That's what a large majority of people do and have done and that's why we only have a handful of original members left around here (still more than I'd expect this many years later though). It's not rocket science. It is what it is. He's long gone now and bitching about his decision, nearly 2 decades later makes about as much sense as bitching about Vikings raping and pillaging remote villages of Scandinavia that haven't existed in centuries. I didn't like it then but I will give credit where it's due and admit that AG/VS left us to our own devices for a long, long time. That was part of the deal Joe made with them on our behalf and for the most part, they honored it and we appreciated it. They've owned the site long enough now to do whatever they want... but that doesn't mean I have to like it and it doesn't mean it's the right or even the smart thing to do, especially the way they are choosing to do it.

As you've made very clear... they'll do whatever they want to do and we can either stick it out or move on. I don't want to see the family of enthusiasts we've built here scattered to the far sides of the world wide web but I'm just a grumpy old gimp with an old Harley and a few Ford Bronco's around and my opinion and 25¢ might still buy you a gum-ball.

Gentle reminder... if you think I'm freakin' out, ranting and raving or being an angry asshole, go back and re-read it in Morgan Freeman's calm and soothing voice. Maybe it'll make you feel better. Maybe not. I type a lot. I still use an actual keyboard and it flows easily for me. Sorry if you're reading it on a tiny screen or replying on a tiny, fake keyboard and interpreting it some other way than it's meant but that's on you (you... in the general sense.) That's what custom smilies used to do for us... but that's another story, for another pointless bitch and whine thread.
 

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Premium Member
1986 Bronco, 351w, Edelbrock aluminum top end, Holley 600, 4" BDS lift, 35" Maxxis Razr's, stuff..
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@bikerpepe , remember, if you can’t explain it simply (or in less than 5000 words) you don’t understand the problem. You are definitely not on your phone.

Have you seen that I got my engine back in? It’s kickin!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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Gentle reminder... if you think I'm freakin' out, ranting and raving or being an angry asshole, go back and re-read it in Morgan Freeman's calm and soothing voice. Maybe it'll make you feel better. Maybe not. I type a lot. I still use an actual keyboard and it flows easily for me. Sorry if you're reading it on a tiny screen or replying on a tiny, fake keyboard and interpreting it some other way than it's meant but that's on you (you... in the general sense.) That's what custom smilies used to do for us... but that's another story, for another pointless bitch and whine thread.
The tone of these topics never bother me, I enjoy them. I just call a spade a spade is all, regardless of the melodious and soothing timber it's spoken in my head. I said in my first post that I didn't want to slow down the pace of the snowball and wished the crew the best at picking steam back up after my derailment.

If you are ok with Joe's action based on the time that has passed since it happened, I'd just wait the required amount of time to be ok with the current site changes made by VS. That's what I do with most stuff and it keeps me pretty ok with everything going on around me. As for AG lying to you, every company and politician you have dealt with has lied to you in some way. If they haven't, give them a tiny bit of time.

And finally, I hope it's clear that I'm just being some uneducated and half-assed bargain basement devil's advocate. I don't have a horse in the race at all. I like the core community and I see some leaving recently due to the shenanigans afoot which makes me sad but if they don't realize that they're leaving you and I and not some corporate representative, I guess we're going to be ok with them gone. Whoever is the last one logging in will just have to grab the flag and take it with them on their way out.

To be honest, I've screwed with the community's intention enough in the topic. I'll leave it to the crew unless it's something I can actually help with.

 
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Eric
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Hello there, sir!

I'm happy to explain what I know about it but keep two things in mind:

1) I'm not an insider, in the business or in any way what you'd consider knowledgeable. I'm just a guy.

2) The numbers I blurt are like air miles. They mean nothing and are in no way an accurate representation of what is actually being achieved by the site.

Sites make money in a myriad of ways. Visual and textual advertising embedded in the website, affiliate links, partnerships, memberships... you name it, if it can be monetized, commercial sites will do it. I've seen all of that on this site, which means we would need to guess at all of those aspects which is impossible so we won't guess, I'll just make a generalization based on a site of this size with this much content could make.

The magic behind this site is no longer the members, it's the database. That's because this site is a historical archive of a vehicle that is no longer making changes. The members have talked about everything concerning these vehicles, how to fix and improve them and while they did that, the database grew in size. At this point we're just eating our tail in terms of talking about the same stuff over and over again for the most part. So if every member left this site and never returned and the site became a read only archive, it would still be the most authoritative resource on FSBs on the planet(3.7 million user posts of content). This is important to your question.

The money a site can make is directly related to how many people view it's pages. Each page view shows more ads, resulting in a higher chance of a click on an ad and each click results in money. The more traffic a site can generate, the more money it makes off of the ads. If you can become a top result for a search query, you get more people coming to your site which then more often click on your ads, becoming a member or clicking an affiliate link. The magic is getting traffic to your site to do that, regardless of whether or not they ever become a member and create content of their own.

I know absolutely none of the details necessary to make an educated guess but would guess that a site of this size being as likely as it is to be at the top of a search query regarding these vehicles could easily make 2-3k monthly, perhaps even more. The crippling factor of this site is actually it's topic, the FSB. It's a dead vehicle with a dwindling number of owners every day, so there are less searches regarding them in turn generating less income.

Enter the new Bronco content and why the company is injecting it. If they can become a hub for that vehicle, they have a chance of doubling or even tripling their income generated by this site. If every FSB owner leaves this site but they become a go-to for the new Bronco, they will still make more money than they ever could have if they were to stay FSB all the way. That's why they're making the effort and why you're seeing them pull back from ragefests like this topic. If you keep in mind their goal and the fact that they have to pay someone to respond to this topic while just basically getting yelled at constantly, you'll understand why we're hearing less and less from them.

So, in answer to your question: $2-5k air bucks currently. Tons more if they can pull in new bronco lovers.

They are doing what they can to bring the new guys in while spraying water on the fires lit by the old guys. I suspect the banner issue people are having by our members where the banner they want is sometimes showing for some is because the owners are trying to show the FSB banner to the very angry FSB members while still showing the new bronco banner to new visitors. Sort of like a low level exercise in gas lighting. I can say this with a modicum of surety because some of the new members posting so effusively about the new bronco share the same IP as AG Jeff meaning the company is creating dummy accounts to start the 2021 discussions in an effort to make this place a home for the new bronco as well as the full size.

Which is just how companies work and nobody should be blaming them for it. Nobody that has posted in this topic has ever owned the site or owned shares in VS or AG. They are visitors and they agreed to the TOS which states that any content they post is owned by the company immediately upon submission. The only person that could have been mad is Joe if he hadn't sold it out from under everyone and this had still happened. As it stands, nobody has a legitimate reason to be angry about the recent turn of events. Their time to get pissed off would have been when Joe sold the site making this entire scenario possible.
..... 😦

First, thank you. I now have a general idea about something of which I knew nothing previously.

Second, I asked the question about how they make their money because I was like, "What if enough people paid a "Supporting Member" fee to make enough money for AG to not mess with site in pursuit of income from ads/user traffic." The whole bit about them trying to attract new users by offering new content makes sense, if money is what they're after. I have experienced the necessity for "pushing for new product roll-out" when I worked for a bumper manufacturer. As soon as the CAD files for a new vehicle were released to the aftermarket, we had to move like hell to get the new bumpers designed, prototyped, manufactured, and offered. It was industry suicide to stagnate and it was, conversely, the reason I tried to start making fabricated products for the FSB. I was told by the bumper company, when I proposed it, that they wouldn't even consider an FSB line because it would be a "dead-end" product and didn't make financial sense.

Apparent bottom-line: It wouldn't matter if all the FSB guys were to pay a "fee" as incentive to prevent AG messing with the site. AG has their sights set on the future. No matter what. Based on this concept, though, why would it be of benefit for AG to make any efforts to keep the "old timers" around and placate us even to the slightest degree? We are not their target audience. Do they need us here for something? It's not like we're going to be able help, to any significant extent, with the new Bronco stuff coming out. It seems like they would be just as satisfied to let us all get pissed off and leave. Then, they could bastardize the site however they wanted with no flak. Why are they "humoring" us?

Third (and personal opinion that is, in no way, directed at you shwim, but considers a valid point you made), I couldn't care less if they have to pay someone to respond to shit-show threads. If "customer service" is part of your company's operating strategy, and you end up with pissed customers, it's a situation resultant of running your business the way you have chosen and/or making poor decisions. I have also worked as a customer service supervisor, in a former life. Pissed customers are an operating contingency. FSB patrons, with Supporting Memberships, are essentially paying to watch their little slice of FSB pie get constantly dinked with, in a manner that they don't necessarily agree with, and they get no refund on their money. AG dude's getting paid to deal with this. If he/she has a personal problem with it, he/she needs to find a new line of work that agrees with him/her more. My job sucks too, sometimes. I deal with it and modify my practice as a result. As for running forums and social media sites, that's the downside of making "people" your business. People are fickle. At least you know what a forum crowd expects: it's whatever their forum's content is about. I don't know squat about social media, but I know well enough not to go up to a group of carpenters, while they're framing a house, and say, "I think we should try welding stuff."

Thanks again schwim. Also, HELLO back at ya! 🖐
 

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The Tennessee Warden
96 XL, 5.8L, E4OD, BW1356, 4.56 gears
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3,517 Posts
The way I see it, a large database of 78-96 FSB info is already established here that goes over just about everything that would need repairing on an FSB. They have no reason to cater to us, really - they already have what they want there. So, they look to the new bronco to bring in more people to the site, more traffic, more clicks. It will be less about repairing and diagnosing, and more about showing off what they just bought or leased and what Ford-licensed aftermarket add-ones they just emptied their wallet on - basically a show and tell.
 
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