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Ex Navy Nuke
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5,421 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, I've done some more checking since ditching the 347 stroker idea and need some input. I'm not gonna get a motor from Ford because they only have reman which are more expensive than most other remans I checked on. The only new 302s they have are racing motors so there is NO Warranty. I don't want used I wan't new or reman. I just found 2 possibilities today but need some input. One is a 351 Cleveland with 4 valve heads (long block) for $2300, that's all I know for now, I need to call to find out more info. The other is a 351/ 383 stroker short block with 6.100" H-beam rods for $1600, I would need to get some decent heads since it's a short block, now here's the question(s):
Which one would have the best possibilities?
Would the Cleveland even work with my Bronco (with all the electronics and an E4od trans)?
Were there ever any Broncos made with 351 Cs?
Would the computer out of a 351/E4od truck work with a 383 stroker?

Thanks for any input.
 

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But what does mine say?
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954 Posts
I like the 383 stroker idea the most. With the cash that you save, you could buy new heads, and then raid the junkyard for everything else. I'd suggest looking for a beat up 351 lightning for the computer and stuff. Maybe you can find one that's been wrecked. That would even give you the benefits of MAF. As far as I know, 351 lightnings all had the E4OD trannies, so you should be safe.
 

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Ex Navy Nuke
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5,421 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah, the GT-40 heads is exactly what I was thinking. $530 for alum GT-40's seems pretty cheap. I want 2.02/1.60 valves though and I'll definitely be putting on roller rockers and port matching the heads/intake. I guess I better start scouring the junk yards. Thanks.
 

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Are those REAL?!?!
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1,702 Posts
try this place for heads and stuff...

http://www.gefracing.com

they have a whole lot more than is on the website, o poke around, and then call them and ask for what you're looking for. That's Gene Evans Ford here in Georgia... they've got GREAT prices on factory Ford go fast/power parts....

:thumbup
 

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OUT OF BUSINESS / M.I.A.
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GT40P heads suck on big displacment engines. They are a nice cheap head for 5.0L, but not best on 5.8L or larger.

You better skip straight to the 89-93 Mustang computer with the stroker.
Lightning Trucks did not have Mass Air, the Lightning Mass Air kit is over $1000
I could sugest the ultimite laptop tunable Mass Air swap for around $800
 

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And to add, the CLeveland doesn't accept fuel injection without either more money (since it will have to be custom) and the parts from the 351C and 351W wont interchange. I would go with the 351/383 route. Hell you can get a nice set of aluminum heads for barely over $1000 new. Instead, go with the Iron GT40P heads. You can find them cheap enough new if you look around. I remember seeing them for around $250 bare. I'll look for where I saw it at. Hell you could add these even, I would.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FMS-M6049Y303
 

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But what does mine say?
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954 Posts
I have GT-40P's on mine, but mine are cast iron. Unfortunately Summit Racing doesn't carry them anymore, but the part # is fms-m-6049-p303 incase you want to give them a call. You may be able to get them from Jegs or directly from Ford Motor Sports. They're half the price of the aluminum heads, and are better with temperature.
 

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Cadillac of Men
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3,787 Posts
didnt you already start a thread just like this?

you cant do a clevo, unless you got tons of money, time, and ability to custom crap.

the gt-40 heads are highly overrated, just like Fireguy said. they are just the trendy thing that the foxbody kids do. take a look at the jegs/kaase heads. Little more pricey, but they are worth it. One of the best sbf street heads out there.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=156886&prmenbr=361
 

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aka: kemicalburns
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7,918 Posts
AFR makes a bad arse set of heads to. They would flow really well atop a stroker motor. and are about 1300 for the set. edelbrocks are 11-1200 and wont flow as good.

later
 

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But what does mine say?
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954 Posts
Fireguy50 said:
GT40P heads suck on big displacment engines. They are a nice cheap head for 5.0L, but not best on 5.8L or larger.

You better skip straight to the 89-93 Mustang computer with the stroker.
Lightning Trucks did not have Mass Air, the Lightning Mass Air kit is over $1000
I could sugest the ultimite laptop tunable Mass Air swap for around $800
My buddy has MAF on his Lightning. He is the only owner, and has never done a conversion. He says the truck came that way. He has rebuilt the motor, but other than changing his MAF meter and injectors, he hasn't touched the EFI stuff. I agree with 99% of what you tell me Fireguy, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. Just to be sure, I'm gonna dig into it and see what I can find.

And as for the heads...

Aren't they the heads that came on the 351 lightning from the factory? I only ask, because when searching for things such as spark plugs and headers, the guy at Summit told me to go with stock Lightning parts. He even suggested getting Lightning plug wires to ensure that they are long enough due to the angle of the plugs.

Sure there are better choices out there, but I was only suggesting these to save him some money. They're damn good heads IMO. Of course I'm running a 302.
 

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But what does mine say?
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954 Posts
This is what I have found so far. It doesn't say anything about MAF or not. Either way, the point I was getting at was that he could find all the bits and peices for his setup off of a 93-95 era Lightning, ie computer and wiring plus to pend components. Just lookin to save him some money.

94 lightning specs
95 stock lightning specs

One thing it does mention is that it was sequential. That would at least make for better fuel mileage and responsiveness if he were to use that harness and computer, weather it's MAF or not.
 

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I still say there was never a production MAF lightning, but you'll have to prove it to me. Also never seen a Speed Density Sequential truck. Sequential is crap, no better than bank fire. You won't ever seen fuel millage gains or responsivness with the sequental system.

Don't get any truck EFI system with a stroker, too much money for what you get. Never use a lightning EFI system, it's lots of meony and JUNK comapired to the Mustang EFI system
 

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But what does mine say?
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954 Posts
Well, I signed up to a SVT forums, and asked the question. I only got one response out of a handful, and the guy said that his 94 did not have MAF. This means my friend is telling me fish stories. Either way, his Lightning does have MAF, and having driven it I can say that it is awesome.

Now my question is this... If he were to use Mustang electronics and harness, wouldn't he have to have the computer reprogramed for the E4OD? Wouldn't it just be wiser to use the Lightning computer, electronics and harness, since it is already setup for E4OD? I assume that with the larger displacement, he is gonna need to reprogram anyway. But do you still suggest Mustang over Lightning, and is there a cost benefit? All this considering that he stays with Speed Density.

Sorry to thread jack.
 

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The problem with any of the Ford Motorsport Mass Air kits is they use A9L computers.
So you're paying 2X to 10X more than you could for used parts.
To deal with the E4OD, you simply use the old computer to run it.
It might sound like a pain in the ass, but it works. One computer for the engine and another for the trans.

No mater how you look at this swap, he has to get educated on the subject fast to build his own harness, or pay lots of money for others to do it.
Here was my bill for the super Mass Air EFI system I have
$200 X3Z computer (new)
$200 8 24lb injectors (new)
$150 70mm MAF sensor (new)
$500 Custom Programable chip
------------------------------
total $1000 then add in the harness work I did my self.
 

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But what does mine say?
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954 Posts
Ok, so now another question. Since I already have the MAF conversion and it's installed, (rather than used parts) other than the larger injectors, meter, and performance chip (which are all just upgrades that I can do as well) what is the major differences and benefits to the system you have compared to the one I have? Granted, I may have paid to much, but the guess work was taken out, and it was so simple that a monkey could have installed it. It was as if I went into a store and picked the complete package off of a shelf.

Second, do you have a detailed description of how to run seperate computers on your site? I have heard talk of it before, but have never heard the how to's and benefits.

When I built this bronco, I still had my old one to pull parts from. This new one is AOD, and the old one was E4OD. I ultimately opted to keep the AOD tranny for two reasons. One was that it had been rebuilt recently. The other was that I already had the conversion, and all the info I could find specified that it was for AOD, and not E4OD. Needless to say, I may have weighed my options differently had I known how to do it. I still have the E4OD tranny. It is in need of a rebuild, but I may just use it in the future rather than sell it.

That being said, if he decides to stay with speed density, do you suggest he just pull the top end off of an 80's Fox body? (to include the harness and computer) What would be a particular model to stay away from? Would an Explorer be another option? (the GT-40 models of course, but weren't they MAF as well?)
 

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All these questions and I'm not feeling my best :brownbag :cry :uke: :wacko

No differences, you just paid more, and got that injector add on harness.
But I heard a rumor of some guy on this site that will convert a truck Speed Density harness to Mass Air using a mustang computer for a very comparable price. :toothless
I'm assuming your kit was $550ish new? $125 for a used computer, $50 for a MAF sensor, then what ever "deal" you work out with that stanger ;)

No I don't have the details on my web site for piggy-backing computers.
Haven't sat down and sorted out the details yet. I could if there was a need. It's only time and money :(
You find the time or money to swap in that E4OD with the Mass Air, I could be persuaded to wire it up.

Can't stick with Speed Density, plan and simple. There is only 1 speed desnity computer than can be tuned with a chip to any usefull outcome. And it's not easy, and hates camshafts.
Not going to save any money with Speed Density in a stroker motor, all roads lead to 1989-93 Mustang Mass Air ;)
How much money and time you spend to learn that determins your EFI IQ :D

Intake is another storry, I sugest the edelbrock performer for a stroker, maybe even a Trickflow
 

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Are those REAL?!?!
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1,702 Posts
It appears that Lightning got Mass Air in 1999... according to both C&L and Pro-M... they both offer MAF upgrade kits for nothing older than th '99 Lightning/Harley Davidson...

hope this helps clear things... :shrug
 

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But what does mine say?
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954 Posts
Fireguy50 said:
All these questions and I'm not feeling my best :brownbag :cry :uke: :wacko

No differences, you just paid more, and got that injector add on harness.
But I heard a rumor of some guy on this site that will convert a truck Speed Density harness to Mass Air using a mustang computer for a very comparable price. :toothless
I'm assuming your kit was $550ish new? $125 for a used computer, $50 for a MAF sensor, then what ever "deal" you work out with that stanger ;)

No I don't have the details on my web site for piggy-backing computers.
Haven't sat down and sorted out the details yet. I could if there was a need. It's only time and money :(
You find the time or money to swap in that E4OD with the Mass Air, I could be persuaded to wire it up.

Can't stick with Speed Density, plan and simple. There is only 1 speed desnity computer than can be tuned with a chip to any usefull outcome. And it's not easy, and hates camshafts.
Not going to save any money with Speed Density in a stroker motor, all roads lead to 1989-93 Mustang Mass Air ;)
How much money and time you spend to learn that determins your EFI IQ :D

Intake is another storry, I sugest the edelbrock performer for a stroker, maybe even a Trickflow
I smell what you're stepping in, and I'll say this.... When I have the time and money and facilities to start/finish all of my plans for this bronco, I'll be looking for you urr... that stranger. :drinkbud

Oh yeah, I paid around $700 for my FMS kit from Summit. Yeah I may have gotten ripped off, but only in price. Quality is great, as I said in that artichle I sent you a while back. *cough!*cough!*:slap At that time though, I was still learning the basics of EEC, and when everything I read suggested that MAF was where I was heading, I spent the money with ease as soon as I had it. I don't regret it, but wish I'd have known then what I know now.
 
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