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1986 Bronco, 351w, Edelbrock aluminum top end, Holley 600, 4" BDS lift, 35" Maxxis Razr's, stuff..
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don't move the crank or cam once you have the timing chain off or at least pay attention that you don't turn it 180 degrees out. Do you know how to do the timing set?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
don't move the crank or cam once you have the timing chain off or at least pay attention that you don't turn it 180 degrees out. Do you know how to do the timing set?
It'll be my first time changing it. Looked fairly straight forward from what I've read. Slide the old set off and the new one on. Seemed easier than just putting a new chain on, and parts cost was only slightly higher. The main concern was to ensure the marks on each gear need to be lined up exactly with each other. But I'm always looking for advice if you have any.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
So here's a small point of concern. Looks like shaft is not straight up. I know I have to line up the dots on the new set when I place it back on. I'm wondering if it got that way when I tried to remove the balancer with a ratchet and ending up turning it, then I tried to move it back to the approximate position. Or maybe my timing was never really properly set? Should I manually turn the shaft so it points to 12 o'clock before putting the new set on?
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I'm not familiar with the setup but following. Are you concerned the key in the crankshaft and the pin on the camshaft (assuming the pin is the driving mechanism) are not in the same plane?
 

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Was your timing set a duplicate timing set or was it changing the timing some? The 351m I have can benefit from straight up valve timing, so my understanding would be that I will have to change the relative positions of the crankshaft and camshaft via alignment of the new timing sprocket dots.

I also thought some timing sets have more than one keyway on the crank sprocket to allow you to clock the sprocket for duplicate timing, advancing timing, etc.

I'm spitballing a bit as I haven't been in this far before. Keep us updated so us newbs can learn.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Was your timing set a duplicate timing set or was it changing the timing some? The 351m I have can benefit from straight up valve timing, so my understanding would be that I will have to change the relative positions of the crankshaft and camshaft via alignment of the new timing sprocket dots.

I also thought some timing sets have more than one keyway on the crank sprocket to allow you to clock the sprocket for duplicate timing, advancing timing, etc.

I'm spitballing a bit as I haven't been in this far before. Keep us updated so us newbs can learn.
Indeed I'm concerned they are not in the same place, and all the videos I've watched stress the importance of things lining up at the 12 o'clock position.

I had reset the timing after a spark plug change about 4 months back. First, and only, time I've ever done that. Think I got it pretty close and things sounded good. So after watching a few more videos on this topic it seems to me that I should turn the lower shaft so that it points to 12 o'clock to allow all the timing mark on the new set to line up. But waiting for someone to tell me that's a bad idea.

For the keyway, the timing set I removed only had one, and I have to assume it is the factory original single roller. The old chain has a lot of slop in it. The set I'm planning to install is a cloyes double roller which I saw many guys here recommend and it has 3 keyways. Just a normal chain though, it's not a "racing" chain or anything. I plan to install it to the "0" marks which is the factory setting. Not trying to be fancy.
 

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Would the zero marks on the sprockets line up with the "offset" you are seeing from crank keyway to camshaft pin?
 

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1986 Bronco, 351w, Edelbrock aluminum top end, Holley 600, 4" BDS lift, 35" Maxxis Razr's, stuff..
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You need to have the gears on so that the dot on each them is aligned with the other. Turn the crank and/or camshaft as needed to get those two dots to align.

Don’t turn either one more than 360 degrees or you will be setting your timing to be 180 degrees out meaning you’ll fire on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression strike.

Don’t over think it, just rotate them a bit to get them lined up.


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1986 Bronco, 351w, Edelbrock aluminum top end, Holley 600, 4" BDS lift, 35" Maxxis Razr's, stuff..
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In your photo it’s hard to see the dots but it looks like you cam needs to rotate just a bit clockwise and your crank needs to rotate a bit more than that counter clockwise.




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95 5.8L MAF XLT, Hedman Shorties/MF SS Y & Muff, E4OD, Man hubs, KYB Quads, 31x10.5x15, 301K miles
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What @biggum said in his above post, I concur!

Install the Cam gear then put the Crank gear on then Align the dots on both gears then remove the Crank and Cam gears then install the Chain and the Crank and Cam Gears at the same time and you should be Right on the money. This isn't Rocket Science as long as the cam and crank are in the same position they were when you took it all apart they should go back together fairly easy, if you rotated the crank a little that shouldn't matter then you correct for that little when you line up the dots. If you aren't sure how much you rotated the Crank then just make sure the number one cylinder is at or near TDC and then install everything as stated above.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
In your photo it’s hard to see the dots but it looks like you cam needs to rotate just a bit clockwise and your crank needs to rotate a bit more than that counter clockwise.




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Thanks man. That's what I was planning to do, but wanted some confirmation first. It's all lined up now. Still waiting for my timing set to arrive this afternoon to begin reassembly. I took the advice from someone else on the site and put the gasket on the timing cover with some RTV last night so it won't go sliding around on me.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
So far so good. Got the timing set installed and lined up. Installed the NEW timing cover. Installed the water pump. Everything is torqued to spec. Everything has a bunch of RTV on it. One problem I noticed. At the bottom corners of the timing cover where the cork "ear" gaskets go. When I was tightening the bolts they slid around and now aren't really doing their job. But there is a BUNCH of RTV down there so maybe it's sealed? I also noticed some holes on the new timing cover that my old one didn't have. Guess I search for some bolts.

Two Questions.
1. Before I go further on the reassembly (tomorrow) should I take everything apart to fix the ears, or do I count on the RTV to do its job and hope for the best.
2. Does anyone know what the new holes are for?
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1986 Bronco, 351w, Edelbrock aluminum top end, Holley 600, 4" BDS lift, 35" Maxxis Razr's, stuff..
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Lots of guys just RTV the pan on as well as other things and don’t use any gaskets at all so RTV instead of a gasket is fine as long as you got it everywhere it just makes clean up of the surfaces the next time you do it a little more difficult but hopefully you won’t be in there again anyway.


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It could be the angle of the picture but the dots look off to me by a tooth unless that is the slop in the chain and then all is fine. I guess you'll/we'll find out when you get it running. Just my opinion/observation!
Also are there washers under the bolts on the water pump housing? There should be a washer under every bolt going into aluminum parts.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
It could be the angle of the picture but the dots look off to me by a tooth unless that is the slop in the chain and then all is fine. I guess you'll/we'll find out when you get it running. Just my opinion/observation!
Also are there washers under the bolts on the water pump housing? There should be a washer under every bolt going into aluminum parts.
Thanks for the input man. I believe the dots are lined up on the chain, but I see what you mean about the photo. Incidentally, if it is off by a tooth what will happen on start up?

I don't have any washers on the water pump bolts, or the timing cover. It didn't have them originally, but I'll pull the water pump bolts and least and reinstall if that makes a difference. I've got time. Still giving the RTV another day to set up before adding fluid, and I need my new harmonic balancer to be delivered yet.
 

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The factory timing cover / water pump bolts do not have washers - they are flanged bolts.
Maybe so but the bolts on there now are not Flanged bolts and need/should have washers. A Flanged Bolt is just a cheaper setup for the Factory to use as it is only 1 part but a bolt and washer is a Better setup all around as it doesn't allow the bolt to dig into/scar the aluminum, it lets the steel bolt bare against the steel washer and only apply pressure to the aluminum face. If a bolt is a harder material then the part it is being used to hold in place then you need a washer of the same material as the bolt or harder. I hope this all makes sense!
 

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@Siggy89, To answer your question about being off a tooth, it will either be off 1 tooth advanced or 1 tooth retarded, at this time I do not know how many degrees that would equate to. As long as there is no piston to valve interference (being the stock cam and low compression I would venture to say you MIGHT be safe but I wouldn't guarantee it) the reaction of an advanced cam would be a shift in the power curve to the left with increased idle vacuum with more bottom end power and less upper end power and for the retarded cam just the opposite, a shift in the power curve to the right with decreased idle vacuum with less bottom end power and more upper end power.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
@Siggy89, To answer your question about being off a tooth, it will either be off 1 tooth advanced or 1 tooth retarded, at this time I do not know how many degrees that would equate to. As long as there is no piston to valve interference (being the stock cam and low compression I would venture to say you MIGHT be safe but I wouldn't guarantee it) the reaction of an advanced cam would be a shift in the power curve to the left with increased idle vacuum with more bottom end power and less upper end power and for the retarded cam just the opposite, a shift in the power curve to the right with decreased idle vacuum with less bottom end power and more upper end power.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
I put washers on the water pump
Bolts. Now Reassembled and complete. No more oil leak and running well with the new chain. I guess the dots were lined up. Drove it around down. However I do have a water leak from the center of the Water pump. Directly above the balancer there a drip. Got a pan under it now to see how bad.
Trying to figure out how to fix the leak with out taking apart the pump. Any ideas?
 
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