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Discussion Starter #1
Allright, I have an old lathe that has a nameplate rating of 220v 3phase, this combination up until very recently hasn't been used in the US for almost 70 years.

The motor is a 1/2 HP 3 phase Westinghouse with a "53-B" frame. Ideally. I'd like to replace this 3 phase with a single phase so i can run it on typical household current.

Problem is, the motor falls into the NEMA "original" or maybe even pre-NEMA frame sizing. I can barely find NEMA U measurements let alone the original measurements.

Does anyone happen to know where to find either the original NEMA frame specs OR, Westinghouse specs from pre-NEMA frame sizing?

If I have to take this thing apart to measure shaft size and mounting pattern I will, but on the off chance someone knows something, I'm all ears.

Thanks!
 

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I've run into this situation a couple of times.The easiest solution is to take the motor into a shop that specializes in rebuilding electric motors and ask them.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes, will run it, but I don't have 3 phase availability.

I know I can run a phase converter, but I'm checking all of my options.
 

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Satyr of the Midwest
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I'll pass this thread along to my dad. He's pretty familiar with fixing older, mostly pre-WWII machine tools, but he has a list of people that know how to service them better than himself.

You should see the stamping rig they have at his shop. I can't even wrap my arms around the electric motor powering it. :rofl:

BTW, have you ever seen a two-phase motor in person? I haven't, but I'd love to get my hands on one as a collector's item.
 

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I bought a grizzly motor for my 1922 south bend lathe. I just made a new motor plate to get it all to work since it was original run off a ceiling belt.

Grizzlys better motors work well and have capacitor start and run and are cheap for what they are. I added a grizzly wood lathe head to the mix to add more speeds. The old lathe only had 6 speeds, now I have 60...lol

 

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I did all for the Nookie
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Just go to a static phase converter they are cheap as long as your motor is running fine you should be ok I have a 2 hp unit that I put in my garage to run my mill and my band saw and never have a problem with single phasing I have ran both at the same time with no problems

Single-Phase to Three-Phase Voltage Transformers

Also known as phase converters, these generate three-phase 220 VAC output power from a single-phase 220 VAC input. They operate on 50/60 Hz and are surface mountable.
A Light-Load Transformers— Also known as static converters, they are often used for drill presses, mills, and grinders and are a low-cost alternative to the high-efficiency transformers described below. They are designed to allow your motor to run at up to 70% of its normal power. All come with a terminal block for connections.
Note: Select a transformer so that the power output of your largest motor falls within the output range. When using multiple motors, start the largest motor first, then start smaller motors individually.
B High-Efficiency Light-Load Transformers— Also known as rotary converters, these allow motors to run at 100% of their normal power. They include leads for hardwiring.
Note: Select a transformer with a power output that exceeds but comes closest to the power requirement of your largest motor. When using multiple motors, start the largest motor first. Then start smaller motors individually until their total hp requirement is no more than twice the power output of the transformer.

C High-Efficiency Medium-to-Heavy Load Transformers— Similar to the Style B high-efficiency light-load transformers, but they allow the total hp requirement of your motors to be three times the power output of the transformer. All have leads for hardwiring..



Power
Output,
hp Lg. Wd. Ht. Each

(A) Light-Load Transformers
0.25-0.5 6" 3" 7" 7331K21 $116.31

0.5-1 6" 3" 7" 7331K22 123.60

1-3 6" 3" 7" 7331K24 135.69

3-5 6" 3" 7" 7331K25 155.07

5-7.5 6" 3" 7" 7331K26 185.40

7.5-10 6" 3" 7" 7331K27 208.38
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If my camera was working I'd *attempt* to get a picture of the setup. the lathe sits on a cabinet, in the cabinet at the back is the motor that uses a direct coupling to a 3 position transmission- i assume F-N-R. it feeds out to a pulley set meant for a leather belt, 3 pulleys on the bottom, 3 on the lathe head.

If you saw it you'd understand why I'm hesitant to pull the motor out of it right off. It looks like it weighs about 120lbs and is NOT easy to get to. I had to partially disassemble the cabinet and use an inspectors mirror just to read the nameplate.
 

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Satyr of the Midwest
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Informally, my dad said, "yeah, sounds like a lot of the machines we have; we run 'em on 220 3-phase. For a single-phase? Probably would take a 48 or a 56 motor."
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Eh, after looking more closely at the setup I'm realizing re-motoring isn't really practical. The transmission is a 3 speed box with the reverse function run by a foot operated drum switch.

From the start I was figuring a phase converter would be my best solution if i had to buy anything new, now it's really looking like that's the most practical way to get this up and running.

EDIT: Well hells bells

http://dealerselectric.com/mfg-subcat-item.asp?cID=28&scID=164&mID=-1

115V 1 phase input, 220V 3 phase output with VFD for around $100. Gents, I believe I have found my solution.
 

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Satyr of the Midwest
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Yikes. Yeah, sounds like unless you wanna start customizing it off the bat, that's gonna be the easiest route.
 

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press ALT+F4
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Before you pull the trigger on that, what other loads is there on that machine? Is there any controls other than the drum switch for the motor? A coolant pump? Light? The VFD could go wacky if there's an unbalanced load.
 

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I did all for the Nookie
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You could use a newer vfd but the phase converter is much simpler of a route the price I had on my last reply was from McMaster Carr and that is a static type it will probably be ok as long as you don't hog into something real hot and heavy. There's a guy down here Nate at Midwest Machinery Mart that has the plans on how to build one from a 3 phase motor a start capcitor and a potential relay if memory serves correctly. I can get you in touch with him if you like I took the store bought route to save time on mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
All the static converters I found were the same price as or more expensive than the VFD/converter combo, it doesn't make sense to not go VFD. Building a rotary converter only makes sense if you have a spare 3 phase motor lying around otherwise it's still cheaper to go with the VFD.

Also with the VFD all i need is a dedicated 115 V circuit, with a rotary and all the static converters I found I'd need a dedicated 220. My garage is circuit weak with all the 220's already split out, this keeps more functioning circuits.

The motor on this thing is also either horribly inefficient or has a terrible power factor, or both. It's a 220v 1/2 hp motor that calls for 7.7 amps :crazy (unless i'm just reading it totally wrong in the contorted position i have to be in to see the thing)

7.7a x 220v = 1694W
1hp= 746 watts
1694W/(746W/HP)= 2.27Hp
Even with a service factor of 1.15 that's still 1.9 hp meaning this thing can only utilize 25% of the juice going to it at full load.

Also meaning I'd have to get the required amps I'd have to use a static converter rated for at least 2hp which=$$$$

Ah, isn't old crap fun?
 

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I bought a grizzly motor for my 1922 south bend lathe. I just made a new motor plate to get it all to work since it was original run off a ceiling belt.

Grizzlys better motors work well and have capacitor start and run and are cheap for what they are. I added a grizzly wood lathe head to the mix to add more speeds. The old lathe only had 6 speeds, now I have 60...lol

Drop the wood lathe drive and shrink the belt length down a bit, and you've got exactly the same setup my father in law uses with his old South Bend from the same era. Works like a charm. :thumbup
 
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