Bronco Forum - Full Size Ford Bronco Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
711 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Finally got some work the last week and a half. Still not a full 40 hrs but a hell of alot closer than I've been. I sold two installs the first one was a radiant floor heating system in a home that was having the kitchen ripped out and totally rebuilt. The second was a boiler install at an old farm house. These pictures are some from the radiant job.

This is what the boiler room and piping looked like when we first started


ANd this is what the kitchen looked like


AFter two full days of cutting and laying down tubing this is what we ended up with for the radiant floor.

I wasn't happy with the floor layout but the carpenter who was doing the kitchen decided this is what he wanted. My problem with it was that we were about 400 feet short on the total amount of tubing that we layed out. The plan called for about 980 feet because each foot of tubing equals about 40 Btu's of heat so by short cutting the install we wound up with less heat in the room so the boiler and the floor will have to run longer to make up for it. My plan that I drew up left us only about 120 feet short but would have taken an entire extra day to lay out.

This is a picture of the radiant floor manifold assembly. Radiant floor uses hot water from a boiler that must be run through a tempering valve than it's circulated through the mankifold into the Pex(polyethylene cross stranded something or another) tubing.The tubing than warms the entire the floor and heats everything nice and evenly from the floor up. Real nice and real expensive.


This is the entire loop from the boiler to the manifold including the new relay control on the wall and the circulator off the bottom return manifold


And this is what the boiler room looked like when we were done. It's much neater than it was but it's got alot more piping than before to accomodate the new radiant floor and maintain the original baseboard heat in the rest of the house


All totaled we spent five days on the job. There was some other plumbing work that had to be done as far as moving some of the domestic hot and cold pipes and capping off some old lines. We also had to replace a couple pieces of baseboard as they had gotten pretty beat up in the remodeling process. We probably could have gotten done a little faster but we needed hours and this job had no supply houses close so parts runs were done the next day before getting to the job.
 

·
Designated Tranny Killer
Joined
·
6,958 Posts
cool?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
711 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,898 Posts
I was going to say it looks good, untill I saw the plastic water lines.
those lines and heat is not a good combo
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
711 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Those lines are designed for heat. They are PEX Tubing which is designed to be used for radiant heat. There are different types of plastic tubing some of which cannot be used for heat. This tubing is rated to 200degrees and 180 psi. The problem is that the tubing is layered and anything over 180 degrees starts to seperate the layers after a period of time. If you look at the manifolds you'll see there's a temp gauge on both the supply and return and we have to use a tempering valve to make sure the supply temp stays at a constant temp. In this case the tempering valve is set for 140 degrees and looks like a "T" on its side just to the left of the upper manifold. Radiant heat is one of the most efficient and comfortable ways to heat your home. If I had an oil fired boiler in my house I would go with radiant in a heart beat. Also one of the nice things with radiant tubing it can be buried in concrete without the fear of breaking due to concrete movement or deteriation from the fly ashe in the concrete. We have alot of homes in this area that used copper under their floors except most of them have now had pipes break and either the slabs were dug up or they had to switch to baseboard.
 

·
Sneaky Ba$tard
Joined
·
2,982 Posts
Looks like a nice install..... I've never spec'd that for install on one of my projects simply because most homes in the area don't have boiler systems. But I've always wanted to. I may do it when I decide to build one for myself here in a few years..

Couple a questions for ya though.... I've never seen it installed in lumber before?? Is that a channeled plywood bed? How does that work for heat dissapation? Better or worse than concrete? What type of flooring is going in over it?? Ceramic or??

And why did'nt they up grade the boiler with that install?? Seems with the increase in size they would have needed to upgrade the boiler also. But then again I know nothing about boilers. I just know that on standard HVAC if you add more space you need more output??? Thanks----Fog
 

·
Chaos is coming!!
Joined
·
515 Posts
Nice install. I also have not seen that type of tube channel before. Most of the stuff I have seen uses wood and tin. At first I thought that you layed out plywood subfloor, they routed out the channels. But then I saw near the door a piece of scrap with a channel in it.
 

·
shibby
Joined
·
4,826 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
711 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Foghorn said:
Looks like a nice install..... I've never spec'd that for install on one of my projects simply because most homes in the area don't have boiler systems. But I've always wanted to. I may do it when I decide to build one for myself here in a few years..

Couple a questions for ya though.... I've never seen it installed in lumber before?? Is that a channeled plywood bed? How does that work for heat dissapation? Better or worse than concrete? What type of flooring is going in over it?? Ceramic or??

And why did'nt they up grade the boiler with that install?? Seems with the increase in size they would have needed to upgrade the boiler also. But then again I know nothing about boilers. I just know that on standard HVAC if you add more space you need more output??? Thanks----Fog
The product is Wirsbo Quick Trak. It's a plywood material that actually two strips that are joined with sheetmetal in the middle which is what makes the channel. You have to put it on top of a 5/8 min subfloor. Heat dissapation is'n t a concern the way you're thinking about. Remember the whole point of this product is to warm the entire floor. That way the heat is transferred all around the room. The way it works is why it's so important to have the right amount of tubing laid out. Too much is bad and too little is bad. The boiler he has is big enough since we're not really adding heat load. We just changed the type of heat in that room from baseboard to the radiant.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
711 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
711 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
davids78bronco said:
This is great.... I might pick your brain, when/if I can change my heat to radiant floor :thumbup
I'll be happy to answer any questions I can. I'm pretty sure there are a couple other people on here that are HVAC guys also so I'm sure you'll be pretty well covered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,259 Posts
why go all the way to the walls? seems kind of a waste to heat under the applainces, counters, etc. most others radiant floor installs ive seen also look like they double up around entry ways since doors arent as efficient at blocking heat. that floor track took me off gaurd too. i also thought you must have routed it and couldnt believe the amount of work. is it better than concrete? a friend from work is looking at doing this in his house. he has added on something like 2500 square ft (was a small house one bedroom w/a loft) he wants to do the radiant in the kitchen and new living room. they have a gas fired on demand water heater. i know he has been researching this and any info i can give him would help out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Looks good but what kind of insulation barrier do you have to stop the heat from radiating down. We sell a radiant heating system by roth. The panel they have is a foam backed panel with a grooved alum. panel on top for the tube to snap into. check out www.roth-usa.com they have some good info at there site.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
711 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Joes93Bronco said:
why go all the way to the walls? seems kind of a waste to heat under the applainces, counters, etc. most others radiant floor installs ive seen also look like they double up around entry ways since doors arent as efficient at blocking heat. that floor track took me off gaurd too. i also thought you must have routed it and couldnt believe the amount of work. is it better than concrete? a friend from work is looking at doing this in his house. he has added on something like 2500 square ft (was a small house one bedroom w/a loft) he wants to do the radiant in the kitchen and new living room. they have a gas fired on demand water heater. i know he has been researching this and any info i can give him would help out.
With this product you more worried about the total footage of tubing run not where it is. When a heat load calculation is done for a room it gives you the amount of Btu's needed to heat that space. Each foot of tubing is equal to "x" number of Btu's. We needed about 980 feet of tubing to properly heat this room. The problem with this flooring system though is that your'e limited to the design since you can only have about 240 feet of tubing per run. So for this room it actually called for 5 seperate loops. No matter how I figured it out I couldn't physically fit five loops so I came up with a 4 loop system that originally left us only about 100 feet shy of what was called for. However due to cost and time we wound up with this layout which was not the right thing to do. You have to think about the fact that the entire will be warm now. So really there won't be many cold spots. Heat rises so everything will be warm including the cabinets. That's how it works. Laying this stuff in concrete is easier for the layout cause you're only bound to restrictions of the tube itself and how tight the bends are you can make. If we had used concrete I could have gotten 5 loops and the full amount tubing layed down. Again though concrete is expensive and then he'd have to cut up the existing foundation slab.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
711 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
trout8200 said:
Looks good but what kind of insulation barrier do you have to stop the heat from radiating down. We sell a radiant heating system by roth. The panel they have is a foam backed panel with a grooved alum. panel on top for the tube to snap into. check out www.roth-usa.com they have some good info at there site.
The bottom of the Wirsbo track is metal and beneath it is a 5/8 floating subfloor with about 1/2 airspace under it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
711 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Joes93Bronco said:
i know he has been researching this and any info i can give him would help out.
http://www.wirsbo.com/index.php?id=7

There's a ton of info on the web. It's the new big thing in heating. Problem is, it's still kind of expensive. It really is great stuff though.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top