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Discussion Starter #201
No big deal if you got it wrong, they make a 1310 to 1350 Series combination U-joint .
Cool idea! I didn't know those existed. That's an easy fix. Definitely will want to keep one as a spare in the glovebox as that's probably a little harder to find at a local parts store.

I'm seeing plenty of 1330 to 1350 u-joints online. Can't seem to find one that's non-greasable though (which I prefer for strength). I'll keep looking.
 

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Discussion Starter #202
So, it looks like no one makes a non-greasable 1330 to 1350. For some reason they're all greasable. Not sure what the deal is there.


Either way, the pinion carrier is all set and done. 0.046" worth of shims and I hit 17 in/lbs of preload. Just about perfect. Tapped the seal in and torqued on a new nut.



It does look like I'll have to do some grinding on the housing. Strange considering that they said it was already given clearance for larger gears. But yeah, the 4.11 ring hits long before it reaches 0 backlash on the pinion. Oh well.



Got the spot marked off and I'll tackle that tomorrow.

 

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1996 EB w/5.8 TOO much lift, 44" Mudders & 5:43-5:38's
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Did the same to mine; give yourself a little room to grow when things get warm.
 

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Discussion Starter #204
Alright. I think I have a gear pattern that's looking pretty good.
Thoughts?



 

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Looking from my phone, it looks like you may have too much backlash. I will look at it on the computer when I get home to verify
 

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Discussion Starter #206
Both sides, the depth looks really good (from my untrained eye).
On the Coast side, it's pretty centered.
On the Drive side, it's a little out toward the heel.

Pinion preload is about 16 ft/lbs.
Backlash is about 0.008"
 

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Discussion Starter #207
After doing a little research, it looks like I need to move the ring closer to the pinion. I'll give that a go and see how it goes. SO MUCH easier on the 9" than the Dana 44. I'd rather set up ten Ford 9" diffs than a single Dana 44.
 

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Discussion Starter #208
Looking from my phone, it looks like you may have too much backlash. I will look at it on the computer when I get home to verify
Would you mind clarifying this for me?
I see this elsewhere too, when discussing gear patterns. Increasing or decreasing backlash.
Why would you change your backlash? From everything I've read, that's a very specific setting. It's between 0.007" and 0.009" for Motive Gears.

I've read where you should move the ring gear closer or further away, but once you do, you adjust your backlash again so that it's in spec. That makes sense to me.
So why do you say there's too much backlash? Isn't that "play" between the gears? If I have 0.008" backlash, that's right in spec.

Am I missing something?
 

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If you move the ring gear closer to the pinion, it will decrease backlash and center the pattern. If I had to guess, and this is a guess only from looking at your pics, I'd say you need to do both, decrease backlash and subtract a pinion shim to move it deeper into the gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #210
Now that I think about it, I should reword my question.

Why is there a backlash spec, if you increase it or decrease it based on the pattern?
What if the "spec" is 0.007 - 0.009" and you have it at 0.007", but the pattern tells you you need decrease backlash? What if you get a good pattern but the backlash ends up at, say, 0.004"?

That's where I'm a little lost. If there's a spec, why would you increase or decrease backlash based on the pattern if your backlash is already within spec?
 

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Here's my train of thought, if you can't get a good pattern and you are within spec on your backlash, you need to change something else, that would be your pinion depth. On the 9", it's easy by adding or subtracting shims w/o having to press the pinion bearing on and off. These should be made in small amounts .002-.005” IMO.
Please keep in mind that I am by no means an expert, I have done this many, many times over the years and it still takes some head scratching on my part.
 

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Discussion Starter #212
Understandable! I can totally see why. I know it definitely takes a trained eye.

Here is where I'm at now, and is why I'm asking:





From guides that I can find online, this is either very close (both centered) or bordering on too much backlash. However, my backlash is about 0.004", which is below spec and too tight.

I dunno. I'm getting a bit frustrated because the patterns I get really don't seem to ever want to match what I see online.
And if I think they do, the changes they suggest making almost in no way make it behave like it should.
Starting to make me pull my hair out a little bit. Probably done about 25 patterns at this point.

This is the sequence I've been following, going off of some documentation I found on the Ford 9".

Set the shims and bolt the pinion carrier on (and man am I thankful I don't have to remove the pinion nut every time).
Tighten the ring gear side carrier adjusting nut until there's zero backlash.
Then, tighten the non-ring gear side adjusting nut until the desired backlash is achieved. This sets both the backlash AND the case preload.

Rotate for a pattern.

It also takes some load on the gears to get a good pattern, so I pull on the ring gear pretty hard as I turn the yoke.

Then, I've been following this guide:

158883


158884


Any fault in this?
 

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Not sure how much pinion shim you removed, but to me, it looks to deep and I would bring the pinion out a little bit more (split the difference from what you removed)
Are you loosening the end caps and backing off the ring gear slightly when you change your pinion depth?
I loosen the caps a little and back the ring off when I make my adjustment on the pinion. I then tighten them by hand after I install the pinion and set my backlash again.
This is a tedious job, especially the first time you do it.

There are others here who have done this and curious as to what they see and there suggestions.
 

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  • Some guys say to load the gears others say no. I grab the ring gear to turn not the yoke.
    Also, I would clean the gears and start fresh.
  • Trust me, at some point the correct pattern is going to magically appear.
  • The 9” is the easiest of the two. Tom’s Differentials has some great videos on setting up the nine on YouTube under Third Member Assembly. Even though he is setting up Pro gears, the same principles apply.
 

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Discussion Starter #215
That's where I'm getting frustrated.
I don't mind tedious. What I do mind is when each guide I find online has different pictures and a lot of them seem to contradict. Also, my patterns just don't seem to match any pictures I see online. Then, I watch videos of how to set them up and they jump straight to "here's what a good pattern should look like when you get it all done". Well YEAH. But how did you walk through the process of correcting wrong patterns?

Either way, I digress.

I have these shims that came with the 9" kit:

0.010" x 2
0.013"
0.015"
0.018" x 2

0.018" was just too deep (the marks were down at the root), so with these shims I can make about 6 combinations before it starts to get too thick.
So, my options for pinion depth are:

0.020"
0.023"
0.025"
0.028"
0.031"
0.033"



That's 6 different settings. One of them should be correct, as I've seen it said to make jumps of 0.003".
Somewhere around 0.031" and the pattern gets way out on the tip of the teeth (didn't take pictures), so I know that's much too shallow. That leaves 4 different depths I can choose from (0.020" to 0.028").

Each time I check a different depth, I back off the adjusting nuts, set the pinion in, and then set the backlash again. And yes, last night I cleaned the teeth off as I was wondering if I was starting to fight dried gear marking compound. The marks were still pretty similar.

The theory completely makes sense to me, and I understand what I'm doing and why, so I'm not just taking stabs in the dark and just hoping. But it doesn't seem to be working, and I can't make heads or tails of why. I've been at this for two days and nothing even comes close to what people show as a "good pattern", and when I follow any of the guides of what to do when I get x, y, or z pattern, it generally makes it worse, not better. So, I'm pretty confused, and am running out of hair to pull out.
 

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If you are at 0.018, try 0.020, then set your back lash to spec. Keep in mind that if your lash is to tight, move both sides of the gear and try to get the desired pattern while staying within spec.
Did you try watching the Tom's videos?


 

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Discussion Starter #217
I was watching that one just as your post popped up.

I'm sitting around 0.025" in the pictures I posted above.

I think that video reiterates what's frustrating me.
In his video, he says you simply want the patterns across from each other.

Then, you get a diagram like this:



In the upper left example, the two patterns are across from each other, but it says the pinion is too deep.

Then these examples from Yukon Gear that say these are all acceptable:



Then this example, where they really only pay attention to the Drive side:




Then, none of them really match the patterns I'm getting.
It feels all contradictory.


o_O


Who's right?
 

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Could you bring it to the Dutchmen place by your house for a second opinion? I know that’s not a technical solution, but maybe it’ll save some hair?
 

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The patterns are not the same in those two separate pictures. The one on the top left that you said looks like yours shows it too deep the pattern is at the bottom of the gear, almost in the groove. And the other one it is centered between the top and the bottom of the tooth
 

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Just out of curiosity, are you getting confused on adding or removing pinion shims going by different charts? Keep in mind removing shims on a 9 inch moves The pinion closer to the ring gear and removing shims on other Styles such as in 8.8 move it farther away from the ring gear
 
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