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Discussion Starter #221
Could you bring it to the Dutchmen place by your house for a second opinion? I know that’s not a technical solution, but maybe it’ll save some hair?
I've thought about it. Maybe just to see what I'm doing wrong.

The patterns are not the same in those two separate pictures. The one on the top left that you said looks like yours shows it too deep the pattern is at the bottom of the gear, almost in the groove. And the other one it is centered between the top and the bottom of the tooth
Which two pictures are you referring to?

I was saying that the video states you adjust the pinion until the wear patterns on the coast and drive sides are across from each other. That's all he said as for getting it right. Then that image shows a situation in which the wear patterns are across from each other, but the pinion is too deep.

Then, the second set of patterns (which are all labeled as acceptable) have the wear out toward the toe and heel as acceptable, where others say if you have it out toward the toe and heel, you adjust pinion or backlash depending (and never say it's okay).

It seems to contradict and I don't know what to follow, and is why I am getting confused. No one seems to be able to give a clear, precise method to follow, and the patterns I get don't really match what I DO see in illustrations. I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

Just out of curiosity, are you getting confused on adding or removing pinion shims going by different charts? Keep in mind removing shims on a 9 inch moves The pinion closer to the ring gear and removing shims on other Styles such as in 8.8 move it farther away from the ring gear
No, this I was aware of. It does annoy me though, as it is that kinda biased thing you run into when people only discuss what they're working on, instead of the general principle. I remember when Iwas adjusting the pushrods' lengths on my engine (an inline 6) and so many writeups would say "if the wear mark on the valve stem is toward the intake valley, lengthen the rod. If it's toward the exhaust, shorten it". Not everyone's working on a V8... :rolleyes:
But... I did know the Ford 9" is the opposite. Although it does get confusing again when it turns out it's a writeup for a Ford 9, and "adding a shim" and "subtracting a shim" are actually correct. Just say "move the pinion closer" or "move the pinion away".
 

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These two where you say one is acceptable and the other isn’t
158934
 

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Discussion Starter #223
Oh. No, I wasn't directly comparing those two in particular

The top one (mainly the one in the upper left) has the wear patterns across from each other.

158940


In Tom's video, he uses that as his only guideline for an acceptable pattern. The wear patterns across from each other. Nothing about them being too low or too high on the tooth. Just where they are lined up on the tooth.


In the second set of images, I was saying that there is a really wide variety of acceptable patterns, but some of them are way out on the toe, and some way in on the heel.

It says these are acceptable:

158938


But in other writeups, it says those need adjustment because you can't have the wear pattern out at the toe or heel.

I don't know which to listen to, or how to interpret what seems to be contradicting information.
 

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Those last four are unacceptable
 

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The best advice I could give to you, is for you to try and get your pattern centered on the tooth , both top to bottom and left to right like in this top picture

158941
 

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Discussion Starter #226

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Discussion Starter #227
The best advice I could give to you, is for you to try and get your pattern centered on the tooth , both top to bottom and left to right like in this top picture
That's all I've been shooting for.
 

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Call me when it looks like this: 😁

158942
 

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Discussion Starter #229
I'm trying. I really am.

But, as I've reiterated, no guide I find seems to be successful in getting me closer to that. When I look at what I'm getting, I can't find what I need to do to adjust it better in that direction. Without having that, I'm just taking stabs in the dark and trying random combinations. That's "okay" (if not tedious) on the 9", but is the last thing I want to be doing with the Dana 44 when I have to press the pinion on and off every time.

I want to be able to look at a pattern, see what's wrong with it, and adjust correctly. With what I feel is contradicting information all over the web about how to properly set gears, I feel I'm back to just stabbing in the dark. Or, I watch some video and they get one wrong pattern (which looks nothing like mine), make one single adjustment and "bam" they have it.

I'm not the first one who's attempted this, this shouldn't be so difficult to get a correct walkthrough on what adjustments I should make. But that's what it's starting to feel like.
 

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Maybe you should try getting a pattern that’s acceptable before setting your backlash and see if that works out for you
 

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Hopefully somebody else will chime in here and can explain it to you better than I can
 

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Discussion Starter #232
No matter what, I appreciate your willingness help. :)
It's my first go at this, and just wish I had a clearer roadmap. It seems so cut and dry until you actually have the gears in front of you and go through it. Then it's like you have the roadmap upside down and backwards, but can't figure out why.


So, here's where I'm at:

I started with the pinion set really deep and worked my way back. I simply wanted to see how the patterns behave.
All of these are with the backlash set around 0.007" to 0.009", which is the spec set my Motive Gears.

0.018"





0.020"





0.023"





0.025"





0.028"





(10 pic limit)
 

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Discussion Starter #233 (Edited)
0.031"





0.033"






Hopefully this illustrates why I'm getting frustrated. As I approach 0.025" to 0.028", the pattern starts become better centered between the root and the crown, however, it starts to really move to the toe and heel and becomes much more "sharp". 0.031" and 0.033" start to have the "rounded" look to them, but they are way out on the heel and toe.
Now, if they were both on the heel or both on the toe, then that can be fixed with backlash. But if they're on opposing heel/toe, that's fixed with pinion depth which seems to go the wrong way.

Numerous guides and online videos say that if the pattern is towards the toe on the coast side, and the heel on the drive side, that the pinion is too shallow. Which would move me back down to the 0.020" range (which was putting it down into the root). ???

158951




But then I return to this one (here's the one I found earlier with text added):



It says that the positioning on the tooth is irrelevant as long as there are no sharp edges.

What do I listen to?
 

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Discussion Starter #234
Decided to make a new thread about this. I think this is getting too technical for what this thread was intended to be, and probably not seen by people who might know this stuff, too.

 

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Not sure we need another thread, but what happens at 0.023 when you increase backlash?
 

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Discussion Starter #236
Not sure we need another thread, but what happens at 0.023 when you increase backlash?
My thought being because this is 12 pages into a thread on planning, and it's switched to a technical thread on getting the gear pattern right. No one's going to see it unless they've happened to read through the whole thing. (And in a way I'm kinda highjacking my own thread.)

I'll give more backlash at 0.023" a try. Can you tell me why though? What're you seeing and what're you going by? I'm trying to learn, as well as get the pattern right.
 

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Your pattern, to me anyways, appears to be close in 0.023-0.025 and I think increasing the backlash should center it more towards the heel, decreasing it should move it closer to the toe.
 

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Discussion Starter #238 (Edited)
Here's 0.023 with a little more backlash. About 0.010"





I like that it is centered between toe and heel on the teeth, but the pattern itself is discerning, as it looks like a sharp line deep toward the root, and not "round" in the center like many, many good patterns show (yours included up above).

I also tried 0.025" with more backlash to try to even it out:






I think the thing that's bugging me is when I go more aggressive with the shims and try to pull that sharp pattern out of the root, such as with 0.033", I get a nice, broad smooth pattern. More surface area, rounded, and even.
It's just out toward opposing edges (indicative of improper pinion depth). If these patterns were centered on the tooth, wouldn't this be more ideal? I'm meaning more it's overall shape, not it's positioning.



 

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I'm looking at it on my phone, but I like the 23 thousandths pattern, if you think you want to see if you can get a more rounded pattern try putting more of a load on the gear when you check your pattern and see if it helps
 

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Discussion Starter #240 (Edited)
On a different note, I put the 9" aside and dove in on the Dana 44, now that I have the replacement ring and pinion back.

It seems like it's setting up nicely:

This is at 0.025"





The drive side still looks a little deep but the coast side looks good.
Thoughts?
 
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