POLL: Manual Trans Swap

310 Views 18 Replies 9 Participants Last post by BigBlue 94, 17 h ago

Breezeway2021

Discussion Starter · 3 d ago

Alright, I know this is a loaded question due to varying factors and opinions, but im gonna ask it anyways. For background i will say that for me the context is this: i have a 1/2 ton 4x4 that is rusting out. its a 300 with m5od, my bronco is 302 with e4od. I'm still driving the 1/2 ton, but as its getting in worse shape i keep asking myself what to do with it when its no longer road safe... which may be sooner than i want to admit

... Anywho i figure a couple options i have are to swap the auto in my bronco out for the m5od since my history with e4od's gives me a little anxiety every time i drive the bronco lol... So that would give me a 302 with a five speed, or i could do a total swap of the two and have a 300 5sp in the bronco which i absolutely love in the 1/2ton. Both options i am fully aware would be a pretty significant undertaking...

So my poll is this:
To those who have swapped from auto to manual in their bronco (especially to an m5od):
-Was it worth it to you, and why? If you dont mind, please specify which engine you paired it with and the application of the build.
-How did the driving experience change for you with the manual instead of auto and did/do you like it?

I've not had the privilege of driving a FSB with a manual transmission so i'm curious if it will feel basically the same or completey different... not sure if that makes sense.

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fodder

· #2 · 3 d ago

It'll feel completely different. In a good way.

I swapped my 302/E4OD to a M5OD. The selling point for me was running across some old discussions disputing the 302's reputation a so-so truck engine, saying it just needed a manual transmission behind it to free it up to rev. Having experienced it myself now, I completely agree with that line of thought. You can drive the Bronco like a sporty car ... well, a sporty tugboat, maybe.

I later upgraded to the ZF5, for more strength when towing and extra torque capacity in general, as upcoming engine work figures to put me right at the M5OD's max. It's not as enjoyable to drive as the M5OD, but still a lot better than the automatic.

I have no 300 experience, so I can't comment on whether it's worth also doing the engine swap.

Reactions: 2

yuppiecruncher

· #3 · 3 d ago

I haven't swapped, mine came with manual trans. A big issue for me was finding anyone who works on manual trans is getting really difficult. I ended up learning how then doing it myself in my garage. Auto transmissions are more common than manual now and repairs can be done fairly easily. Just $.02

cdmck

· #4 · 3 d ago

@AbandonedBronco would be the one to talk to about the 300/zf5 swap.

Reactions: 1

paul rondelli

· #5 · 3 d ago (Edited)

I have a 1993 Bronco with a 5.8 and a E4OD .... and a 1996 Bronco with a 302 and a M5OD.

The stick is just so much more fun. The 1993 is lifted with 4:56 gears/ a locker/ and 35" BFG mudterrains ..... and she stays parked so I can daily drive the stick shift.

We all love low end torque for pulling out of mud holes and that " seat of the paints" pull off the line. I find letting the 302 rev up to about 4,000 rpm's keeps a smile on my face. The 302 just likes high rpms ..... the auto transmissions robs you of the experience.

I also wrench/own a few Ford Focus (2008 -2011 only). The 2.0L Duratec is the exact same way. The electric transmission is built for MPG not fun. You can take the same motor and add a little boost and a stick shift and it feels like a high end race car. She really wakes up above 4,000 rpms ..... and so does the enjoyment.

And can you really consider yourself a true ******* ........ if you cannot just absolutely roast your tires when you get that urge? I think not.

My next Bronco project will be a 1986 bullnose with a 300 six and a 4 speed with granny low ....... My buddy had one and while wheeling in some sand pits in Florida ... he dropped her down into 4 low ... put her in first gear.... and we stepped out and watched the Bronco creep her way through some nasty sugar sand ..... I was sold after that

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Reactions: 2

AbandonedBronco

· #6 · 3 d ago

My '85 was originally an EFI 302 with the AOD trans (very similar gear ratios to the E4OD).
It drove nice, but the AOD would always shift before the 302 could ever rev, leaving performance overwhelmingly lackluster. I had to mash the pedal to the floor to ever get it over 3000 RPMs, and even then it'd still downshift.

Although I was curious what the 5 speed would've been like behind the 302, my intention was always to swap in the 300 / manual transmission that was in my '81 Bronco that was wrecked. So I swapped both at the same time.

Once I completed the swap, the performance difference was night and day. I was no longer losing speed on hills, I could rip off the line from a stop light, and most of all, I could shift when I wanted to to keep it in the engine's proper RPM range. Something I felt the auto transmissions could just never do. Manual transmission all the way!
For what it's worth, I have a ZF5 with 4.11 gears, which are just about perfect.

I may not be the best person to get 302 vs 300 advice though, since my 302 was stock, and my 300 is built to about 200+ horsepower. But I'd take the 300 any day. Unless you want to do performance mods to the 302.

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Reactions: 5

RustProof

· #7 · 3 d ago

I hated my M5od but loved the ZF. My FSB with 4" lift, 302, a zf and 33" tires could get 17MPG when I tried. I really miss having a stick.

BigBlue 94

· #8 · 3 d ago

5 speed all the way. My 85 is a 300 with a 4 speed. Ive spent a lot of miles behind a couple 5 speeds, and my current DD is a superduty with a six speed ZF. I am a huge fan of the manual trans.

Since the 300 is in front of an M5R2, i assume its fuel injected? A 302 is easier to make power with but the 300 is a better truck engine and has a cool factor of 11. Hang a turbo on it and throw some 30lb injectors in it for over 300 hp and 500 ft/lbs.

Reactions: 3

Burntoutaccountant

· #9 · 3 d ago

I’m pro zf5. I’m biased because I’m swapping one into my bronco.

Reactions: 1

Breezeway2021

Discussion Starter · #10 · 2 d ago

BigBlue 94 said:
5 speed all the way. My 85 is a 300 with a 4 speed. Ive spent a lot of miles behind a couple 5 speeds, and my current DD is a superduty with a six speed ZF. I am a huge fan of the manual trans.

Since the 300 is in front of an M5R2, i assume its fuel injected? A 302 is easier to make power with but the 300 is a better truck engine and has a cool factor of 11. Hang a turbo on it and throw some 30lb injectors in it for over 300 hp and 500 ft/lbs.

yes the 300 is EFI. both trucks are 95 model. however only the 302 has MAF.... so if i kept the 302 i have to find a new ecu to do the swap "the right way". not sure if they're obtainable...

anybody know what mpg i could expect with a stock 302 and 5sp in the FSB?

BigBlue 94

· #11 · 2 d ago

Breezeway2021 said:
yes the 300 is EFI. both trucks are 95 model. however only the 302 has MAF.... so if i kept the 302 i have to find a new ecu to do the swap "the right way". not sure if they're obtainable...

anybody know what mpg i could expect with a stock 302 and 5sp in the FSB?

Why would you have to find a new ecu? Just run it with the SD 300 ecu.

96 MAF 300s are not a common beast. They were only in F150 and E150. They dropped the 300 from the bronco after 92. 96 F250 (over 8500 gvwr) and 350 were still SD.

MPG depends on axle gearing and tire size. 29" tires and a 3.08 rear gear could get you close to 20 mpg. 35s and 3.55s will get closer to 12mpg.

BigBlue 94

· #12 · 2 d ago

BigBlue 94 said:
Why would you have to find a new ecu? Just run it with the SD 300 ecu.

96 MAF 300s are not a common beast. They were only in F150 and E150. They dropped the 300 from the bronco after 92. 96 F250 (over 8500 gvwr) and 350 were still SD.

MPG depends on axle gearing and tire size. 29" tires and a 3.08 rear gear could get you close to 20 mpg. 35s and 3.55s will get closer to 12mpg.

Whoops read your post wrong... You would need a manual 302 MAF computer to do it right, but its not necessary.

Breezeway2021

Discussion Starter · #13 · 1 d ago

BigBlue 94 said:
Whoops read your post wrong... You would need a manual 302 MAF computer to do it right, but its not necessary.

yes that is what i meant... not sure how obtainable those are... after several years i gave up on trying to find a WAY1 which was factory ecm for my bronco... ended up using an alternate PN which so far seems to be doing the job... the truck still does some weird things but i think its just the way it is... its always done weird stuff. lol

so 31" tires and 3.55 gears i assume maybe 15mpg if i drive it right? (thats 302 & 5spd)

BigBlue 94

· #14 · 1 d ago

Breezeway2021 said:
yes that is what i meant... not sure how obtainable those are... after several years i gave up on trying to find a WAY1 which was factory ecm for my bronco... ended up using an alternate PN which so far seems to be doing the job... the truck still does some weird things but i think its just the way it is... its always done weird stuff. lol

so 31" tires and 3.55 gears i assume maybe 15mpg if i drive it right? (thats 302 & 5spd)

15 sounds about right.

Im lucky on my 96 f350, it had a C6 trans so no need to swap ECUs when going to a ZF5. HOG1 but its speed density.

Breezeway2021

Discussion Starter · #15 · 24 h ago

that would be nice... last time i checked mpg was maybe 4 months ago and it was just shy of 11 im pretty sure... dont know why, but it was... ive been too scared to check it since then and honestly i havent been driving it a whole awful lot lately. since gauge doesnt work i tell myself 10mpg to play it safe on time till refill. wasnt intending to be prophetic lol

BigBlue 94

· #16 · 23 h ago

Breezeway2021 said:
that would be nice... last time i checked mpg was maybe 4 months ago and it was just shy of 11 im pretty sure... dont know why, but it was... ive been too scared to check it since then and honestly i havent been driving it a whole awful lot lately. since gauge doesnt work i tell myself 10mpg to play it safe on time till refill. wasnt intending to be prophetic lol

I get about 11.5 in my superduty, gas V8, ZF6 manual, 4.10 gears and 37s. With 32s it gets about 14.

About every 80-96 ford truck ive driven has gotten about 12 mpg. 351s, 302s, 300s, 460s, manual and automatic, stock and larger sized tires. The only exception was a powerstroke diesel that got about 15-16 mpg, if i stayed out of the wide open throttle!

Burntoutaccountant

· #17 · 21 h ago

I got 16 on two tanks from Seattle to Kansas City. Probably downhill. Never seen it again. Definitely won’t be getting that again lol.

RustProof

· #18 · 18 h ago

I think 15 with 31s and stock ride height with a 302/zf5/3.55 gears should be pretty easy. I got better than that with a lift and 33s.

BigBlue 94

· #19 · 17 h ago

Burntoutaccountant said:
I got 16 on two tanks from Seattle to Kansas City. Probably downhill. Never seen it again. Definitely won’t be getting that again lol.

From The Divide down to Colby, i got 14mpg with a 4bbl carb, 4.56 and 37s, and no overdrive! 75mph at 3000 rpms!

Made it from Keystone to Salina on a single tank of diesel in my pops old 6.0PSD.

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