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Discussion Starter #1
Truck: 94 Bronco, 351W, E4OD

Backstory...

Stock E4OD was toast. TC was going, trans ran like crap, blah blah blah...
Replaced with a BTS E4OD transmission (amazing customer service, great trans).
On startups, and when going to place into R or D, the truck almost stalls out as it hits the R.
After talking with Brian for a while and walking through some diagnostics, it is likely a poor flowing trans cooler (the unit attached to the bottom of the radiator). The radiator is a new oem replacement (less than a year old), so it's probably just a crappy flowing trans cooler as opposed to being clogged up.

And the questions...
Can I just plug off the trans cooler part of the radiator, and run a heavy duty cooler that flows better in its place?
If not, is there a radiator out there that has a much better flowing trans cooler than the stock setup?
 

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I have never heard of a plugged trans cooler causing a vehicle to stall

to test his theory, just loop the lines together for a test, do not drive without a cooler installed as you may kill the transmission!

you can eliminate the rad cooler and run just a big aftermarket one
but I run both
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have never heard of a plugged trans cooler causing a vehicle to stall

to test his theory, just loop the lines together for a test, do not drive without a cooler installed as you may kill the transmission!

you can eliminate the rad cooler and run just a big aftermarket one
but I run both
Yeah, that's what I did. Started up fine. I'm trying it again in the morning when it's good and cold, but I am expecting the same.

I had never heard of the issue before today. Brian said he's noticed it from time to time and it usually has to do with the much larger TC that he uses and the amount of fluid it pushes/moves. Often times a stock cooler isn't big enough to move the fluid or has become clogged.

A quick google search showed lots of threads on it.

https://www.google.com/#q=clogged+trans+cooler+causing+stall+on+start
 

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On E4ODs, I have heard of the filter not being securely in place causing this type of problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Check #1 was fluid level, #2 was the cooler bypass, if it stalls tomorrow morning #3 will be the filter check. Just didn't want to waste all that fluid before I checked other options.
 

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Check #1 was fluid level, #2 was the cooler bypass, if it stalls tomorrow morning #3 will be the filter check. Just didn't want to waste all that fluid before I checked other options.
Then get a clean pan and catch it... not rocket science. Even if you buy a new pan it's cheaper than fluid.

IMO you've probably got an underlying IAC/MAF/MAP issue causing the truck to not idle as strongly as it should and when the new transmission grabs it stalls and it didn't stall with the old trans because that one didn't grab as quickly.
 

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yo Jeff,
Try a Self Test for Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)s by my pal, BroncoJoe19 @ http://broncozone.com/topic/14269-code-reader/?pid=74587&mode=threaded

The engine temperature must be greater than 50° F for the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) Self-Test and greater than 180° F for the Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test.
Run it around to heat the engine up and shift thru all gears incl Reverse. Then turn off all accessories/lights, etc.

Make sure A/C is off and transmission is in Park (automatic) or in Neutral for a Manual & release clutch.

Do Key On Engine Off (KOEO) portion first.

And Post them here according to:
KOEO
&
KOER
=

all this is by Ford in 96 Bronco-F-Series Workshop Manual (PARTIAL)
Same as 94 and most earlier years exc. for OBD II, 4WABS (93-96) ABS 87-92), Air Bag (94-96) and a few other items

as you mentioned, there may be a flow restriction in the cooler or its lines to and from E4OD.
Section 07-02: Transmission, Automatic, Cooling
CLEANING AND INSPECTION
Transmission Fluid Cooler

"When internal damage has occurred in the transmission (7003), metal particles, clutch plate material, or band material may have been carried into the transmission fluid cooler (7A095). These contaminants must be cleaned out of the transmission fluid cooler and fluid cooler tubes before the transmission is put back into service."

and; "Filter, In-Line TSB 00-23-10 by Ford for 89-96 Bronco & F Series, etc.
Source: by Ford via thedieselstop.com
Contamination from prior transmission concerns or excess wear may be trapped in the transmission fluid cooling system. This debris must be removed by properly cleaning the transmission cooling system. After cleaning, some contamination may still remain. The remaining contamination may be reintroduced into the fluid cooling system of a repaired/replaced transmission causing premature or repeat failures....
Some EXCERPTS:
VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH STAND-ALONE OIL-TO-AIR (OTA) FLUID COOLERS CANNOT BE PROPERLY FLUSHED.
FOR ALL VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH STAND-ALONE OTA COOLERS THE OTA COOLER MUST BE REPLACED ON EVERY OVERHAUL OR TRANSMISSION EXCHANGE. REFER TO THE APPROPRIATE SERVICE/WORKSHOP MANUAL FOR PROCEDURE.
Once the fluid cooling system has been cleaned, flushed and backflushed, connect the cooler lines and perform the transmission fluid flow test to ensure proper fluid flow. Refer to the appropriate Service/Workshop Manual for procedure."
As for this TSB, see Seattle FSB's IMPORTANT INFO @ http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331817&highlight=emerging
see his Posts #12 & 16


Next up is "stall"; not much help here because Ford does not address all of your Stall circumstances

Section 07-01A: Transmission, Automatic, E4OD
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING
Diagnosis by Symptom
Here is just a synopsis;
Torque Converter Clutch Operation Concern: Always Applied/Stalls Vehicle (See Note In No. 241 Before Proceeding)

Possible Component
Reference/Action

241 — ELECTRICAL ROUTINE
NOTE: Stalls in Drive and Manual 2 ONLY (Manual 1 and Reverse are OK) •Go to Hydraulic Mechanical No. 341.

•Perform Torque Converter Operation Test.

Powertrain Control System
•Electrical inputs/outputs, vehicle wiring harnesses, powertrain control module, torque converter control solenoid
•Run On-Board Diagnostics. miesk5 Note, this is same as Self Test for Codes Service as required. Clear codes, road test and rerun On-Board Diagnostics.

341 — HYDRAULIC/MECHANICAL ROUTINE
Improper Pressures
•Low line pressures
•Check line pressure at line tap. Perform Line Pressure and Stall Speed Tests. Refer to Pressure Chart No. 401 for specification

READ MORE IF NEEDED.
===

More E4OD related STALL info to consider:


Nagging Neutral Nonsense & Pinpoint Test, Manual Manual Lever Position (MLPS) also called Transmission Range (TR) Sensor. Some of the problems the MLPS can cause are wrong gear starts, TCC hunting, no 4th gear, engine stalling, high or erratic line pressure & a sudden neutral condition; The negative lead of the multimeter should be placed at the MLPS signal-return ground terminal at the MLPS...This sensor is responsible for more malfunctions than any other sensor in the sys- tem, and the kicker is that it seldom stores a code 67 or 634..."
Source: by Pete L at http://web.archive.org/web/20100914...t/magazines/1998-10/Shift Pointers/index.html
Pages 2 and prob 3 are gone, so test the Manual Lever Position Sensor (MLPS) aka Manual Lever Position/Transmission Range (MLP/TR) Sensor or Transmission Range (TR) sensor) and its wiring, connector, etc.

Failure Causes; "...Time and usage - Prolonged use in extreme temperatures; If the electronic circuits to and from the sensor and to and from the engine control computer module are malfunctioning...". Source: by motorcraft.com


Manual Lever Position Sensor (MLPS) Adjustment Info; "...back-probe the MLP line with a volt meter while in Park, and set it to between 4.277 and 4.736 volts (ideally at 4.5065V, right in the middle of the two limits). As a "double-check" afterward, pull the lever down to 1st gear, and again test the MLP voltage; it should be between 0.293 and 1.167 volts, ideally in the middle at 0.73V..."
Source: by SigEpBlue (Steve) at http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40055

in Same thread see bigric's pic of alignment markings from Steve83; Ric wrote "You don't need a tool. Just put it in neutral, loosen the bolts, and line up the marks"

Read Steve's Post #19 info in same thread;
"You shouldn't be measuring from either wire to ground - measure voltage from one wire to the other... And;
Sensor & Actuator Testing Values ... MLPS measure between Gy/R (SigRet) & LB/Y (TR SIgnal) ... "
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/485085

Manual Lever Position Sensor (MLPS) Connector Re-Pining; "...comes with a matching vehicle harness connector. The problem is that you have to remove the pins and their wires from the old vehicle harness connector. What ever you do don't pull all the pins out at the same time because you will never figure out were they go. Easiest thing to do is remove one pin at a time and re-install it into the new connector..."
Source: by miesk5

Manual Lever Position Sensor (MLPS) Installation in a 92
Source: by Jeremy M (Big 92, jermil01) at http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123379
==

This also applies to earlier years; Ford may have updated this TSB, but the info is still the same.
Engine Stall During Transmission Engagement TSB 97-24-23 for 96 Bronco, 96-97 Vans & F Series, 97 Expedition, 98 Navigator, 96-97 F-53 Motorhome; "...Some vehicles may stall when the transmission is placed into gear. This may be caused by the transmission fluid filter becoming detached and/or loose..."
Source: by Ford
http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/9497faq/tsb/tsb/97-24-23.php3

as GvilleBKO & FORBYE ADVISED:
Filter Clip Alternative; "... have seen many threads and received many pm's as of late speaking of the stay-put filter clip used to keep the filters from falling out of the pump in the e4od. there is an alternative to using this clip. it is more expensive but also has more benefits than just using this clip. you can get a trans pan from a 03 super-duty truck. this pan has little humps in the bottom to but up against the bottom of the filter and this keeps the filter from falling down. this pan also has a drain plug and extra capacity for 1.5 more qts of fluid. this pan also allows you to use the much better elastomer gasket. it is reusable and virtually leak-proof. much better than the cork design. it does require the use of a 4x4 filter..."
Source: by thePUNISHER (Paul) at http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155429Filter

E4OD Kills Engine in Drive; works as a filter retainer; w/Ford PN and size...basically this is a magnet Ford uses to keep the filter in-place tightly into the pump; Ford pn F3RZ-7E290-AC
Source: by spxfiltran.com via http://web.archive.org/web/20010727...com/Bulletins/toledo/techbulletin.asp?num=037
 

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yo,
It must have taken me 2 hrs to type out my long-winded, twisted my reply; so I here is info from others on a cooler;
Cooler & Remote Spin-On Filter (Hayden) Installation in a 96
Source: by David C (Zak the Bronc, Big Green and Ugly, Dangling Dave) at http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40021

Cooler & Filter Installation pics in a 90
Source: by 90Beater (Topher, Chris) at http://bronco.tophersworld.com/writeup_tranny.htm

Cooler Installation (partsamerica.com) in a 94
Source: by hipropos (Dale P) at http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65252

Cooler Installation (from Van) in a 92
Source: by Jeremy M (Big 92, jermil01) at http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18638

Cooler Installation (Hayden) in a 96
Source: by David C (Zak the Bronc, Big Green and Ugly, Dangling Dave) at http://fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65252

Cooler Installation (NAPA Ultra-Cool) in a 95
Source: by J. Mark M (DAMIAN) at http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100432

Cooler Installation (p/n F4TH-7A095-A) in a 93
Source: by Richard C (Bigric, Money Pit) at http://www.supermotors.org/clubs/superford/vehicles/registry/detail.php?id=4584&s=27034

Cooler Installation (Summit DER-13950) in a 91
Source: by California Monkey (Richard, Mama Cass) at http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131861

Cooler Return Line Chart; Rear ¼” Pipe Return/ Front ¼” Pipe Cooler feed/out
Source: by racetransmissions http://racetransmissions.com/mainpages/tech_info/cooling/index.html

E4OD Cooler Line Fabrication by exranger06 at http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum...02&highlight=repair+transmission+cooler+lines
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Then get a clean pan and catch it... not rocket science. Even if you buy a new pan it's cheaper than fluid.

IMO you've probably got an underlying IAC/MAF/MAP issue causing the truck to not idle as strongly as it should and when the new transmission grabs it stalls and it didn't stall with the old trans because that one didn't grab as quickly.
I can, I'll still end up losing a bit though.... which is why i'm going with the easy shit first before I move on to the more difficult. Also, the problem's going away when I bypass the cooler, so there's no need yet to drop the pan.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Miesk,
That's a ton of good info, thank you. I started going through a lot of those installs last night, doesn't seem difficult at all.

Started the bronco up again this morning when it was cold, cooler bypassed, no issues when I shifted to reverse. RPM fluctuation was barely visible, and it didn't look like it wanted to die at all. Reconnected the the lines to the stock cooler, let everything cool off for a bit, re started the bronco. Same problems I had been having, just about stalled out when putting in reverse. Hopefully that's the case. I'll put in a larger cooler, bypassing the stock, and see if the issue disappears.
 

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yo Jeff,
YW! and thanks to all those who wrote their installs, etc.

As for a new cooler; suggest you flush it out w/some trans fluid for the helluva it; I've seen some folks more anal that I use Nitrogen to blow the fluid through
never know if ants took up residence @ warehouse or ...
 

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yo Jeff,
As for a new cooler; suggest you flush it out w/some trans fluid for the helluva it; I've seen some folks more anal that I use Nitrogen to blow the fluid through
never know if ants took up residence @ warehouse or ...
This would be my concern. If there was trash in the cooler, have you circulated it through the system.

I know it sucks, but I would drain/flush as much as possible, install a remote filter and cooler, and check/replace the filter after you get a few miles on it.

Money, but cheaper than a new tranny.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
This would be my concern. If there was trash in the cooler, have you circulated it through the system.

I know it sucks, but I would drain/flush as much as possible, install a remote filter and cooler, and check/replace the filter after you get a few miles on it.

Money, but cheaper than a new tranny.
And crap, now you've just convinced me to change it all out anyways when I throw in a new cooler and filter. I would not have even contemplated if my previous TC hadn't been eating itself. And after spending more on the new transmission than I did on the truck, I don't need to be screwing it up this quick.
 
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